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BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #21
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-20-2010 03:54 PM)Metropolis777 Wrote:  
(01-20-2010 02:55 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  IMO, the bowl was more exciting when it pitted a CUSA champ vs the MWC champ.
That was also back when TCU, Louisville, Cincy, & USF were all still in CUSA making a CUSA champ vs. MWC champ matchup more evenly matched.

It used to be that the Liberty Bowl was special because it was the only champ vs. champ matchup outside of the BCS. Now, it's just an SEC alsoran beating down the CUSA champ. Yeah, it gets good attendance thanks to the SEC and is on a premium TV slot (again thanks to the SEC). But, it's not anything special anymore. I know this is of no benefit to the Big East, but I wish there were some way to match the 2 highest ranked non-BCS teams that are do not qualify for a BCS game in this game every year. It's a great venue for it.

Unfortunately, Memphis is more preoccupied with the SEC than making the Liberty Bowl any sort of spectacle. Being that the SEC is the Liberty's first priority, I'd cater to the SEC by kicking out CUSA and seeking another BCS team (which is what the SEC wants). The most accessible conference for this is the Big East.

What does it mean to be a spectacle? Usually, good attendance and television positioning.

Beyond that, the Big 12 is nearby, too, if the LB does decide to go to an all-BCS format, they'd be the biggest threat to the BE getting the slot.
01-20-2010 05:35 PM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #22
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
This game has gotten both great crowds and Tv ratings. The Sec has won all the games so far, but they have not been beatdowns. ECU has led at the 1/2 the last 2 years and UCF lost by I think 7, 3 years ago. CUSA has traveled very well to this bowl, I agree the SEC carries the load, but CUSA sure has not been a burden on it.
01-20-2010 06:02 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #23
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
I just wonder why we're spending so much time talking about a bowl we're not affiliated with, that would pit whoever against the #9 team in the SEC. This isn't a big time bowl game any longer, no matter what the folks in Memphis, and the rest of CUSA think. It's a game against someone that finished close to LAST in the SEC. The Liberty Bowl is a useless anachronism, along with more than half of the other bowl games. Besides a few obstinate morons, who cares?
01-20-2010 06:15 PM
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Gray Avenger Offline
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Post: #24
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-20-2010 06:02 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  This game has gotten both great crowds and Tv ratings. The Sec has won all the games so far, but they have not been beatdowns. ECU has led at the 1/2 the last 2 years and UCF lost by I think 7, 3 years ago. CUSA has traveled very well to this bowl, I agree the SEC carries the load, but CUSA sure has not been a burden on it.

That is accurate. Here is the overall record and attendance for the Liberty Bowl. When the bowl was moved from Philadelphia to Memphis in 1965, attendance immediately improved. Note that there have been some games involving the SEC when attendance was not so great. Note also that from 1994 thru 2005 attendance for games between C-USA and the MWC were quite respectable. And the average victory margin of the SEC over C-USA for the 4 games played so far is 6 points - not a "beatdown" in my book. A "beatdown" would be more like the 1997 score between Southern Miss and Pitt.

DATE TEAM ATTENDANCE
1/02/2010 Arkansas 20 - East Carolina 17 (OT) 62,742
1/02/2009 Kentucky 25 - East Carolina 19 56,125
12/29/2007 Mississippi State 10 – UCF 3 63,816
12/29/2006 South Carolina 44 – Houston 36 56,103
12/31/2005 Tulsa 31 – Fresno State 24 54,894
12/31/2004 Louisville 44 - Boise State 40 58,355
12/31/2003 Utah 17 - Southern Miss 0 55,917
12/31/2002 TCU 17 - Colorado State 3 55,207
12/31/2001 Louisville 28 - BYU 10 58,968
12/29/2000 Colorado St 22 - Louisville 17 58,302
12/31/1999 Southern Miss 23 - Colorado St 17 56,570
12/31/1998 Tulane 41 - BYU 27 52,192
12/31/1997 Southern Miss 41 - Pittsburgh 7 50,209
12/27/1996 Syracuse 30 - Houston 17 49,163
12/30/1995 East Carolina 19 - Stanford 13 47,307
12/31/1994 Illinois 30 - East Carolina 0 46,212
12/28/1993 Louisville 18 - Michigan St 7 21,097
12/31/1992 Ole Miss 13 - Air Force 0 47,602
12/29/1991 Air Force 38 - Miss St. 15 61,497
12/27/1990 Air Force 23 - Ohio St. 11 32,262
12/28/1989 Ole Miss 42 - Air Force 29 60,128
12/28/1988 Indiana 34 - S. Carolina 10 32,210
12/29/1987 Georgia 20 - Arkansas 17 53,240
12/29/1986 Tennessee 21 - Minnesota 14 51,357
12/27/1985 Baylor 21 - LSU 7 40,186
12/27/1984 Auburn 21 - Arkansas 15 50,180
12/29/1983 Notre Dame 19 - Boston Co. 18 48,071
12/29/1982 Alabama 21 - Illinois 15 54,123
12/30/1981 Ohio St 31 - Navy 28 43,216
12/27/1980 Purdue 28 - Missouri 25 53,667
12/22/1979 Penn St. 9 - Tulane 6 50,021
12/23/1978 Missouri 20 - LSU 15 53,064
12/19/1977 Nebraska 21 - N. Carolina 17 49,456
12/20/1976 Alabama 36 - UCLA 6 52,736
12/22/1975 So. Cal. 20 - Texas A & M 0 52,129
12/16/1974 Tennessee 7 - Maryland 3 51,284
12/17/1973 N. C. St. 31 - Kansas 18 50,011
12/18/1972 Georgia Tech 31 - Iowa St 30 50,021
12/20/1971 Tennessee 14 - Arkansas 13 45,410
12/12/1970 Tulane 17 - Colorado 3 44,460
12/13/1969 Colorado 47 - Alabama 33 50,042
12/14/1968 Ole Miss 34 - VA Tech 17 46,206
12/16/1967 N.C. St 14 - Georgia 7 35,054
12/10/1966 Miami 14 - VA Tech 7 39,101
12/18/1965 Ole Miss 13 - Auburn 7 38,607
12/19/1964 Utah 32 - W. VA 6 6,059
12/21/1963 Miss St. 16 - N.C. St. 12 8,309
12/15/1962 Oregon St. 6 - Villanova 0 17,047
12/16/1961 Syracuse 15 - Miami 14 15,712
12/17/1960 Penn St. 41 - Oregon 12 16,624
12/19/1959 Penn St. 7 - Alabama 0 36,211
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2010 03:52 PM by Gray Avenger.)
01-21-2010 03:48 PM
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TIGER-PAUL Offline
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Post: #25
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-20-2010 06:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I just wonder why we're spending so much time talking about a bowl we're not affiliated with, that would pit whoever against the #9 team in the SEC. This isn't a big time bowl game any longer, no matter what the folks in Memphis, and the rest of CUSA think. It's a game against someone that finished close to LAST in the SEC. The Liberty Bowl is a useless anachronism, along with more than half of the other bowl games. Besides a few obstinate morons, who cares?

agree, but still would be an improvement over toronto bowl.
6.5 mil watched liberty bowl. That's a fair amount of morons.
01-21-2010 03:56 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #26
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-21-2010 03:48 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  [quote='goodknightfl' pid='5076713' dateline='1264028556']
This game has gotten both great crowds and Tv ratings. The Sec has won all the games so far, but they have not been beatdowns. ECU has led at the 1/2 the last 2 years and UCF lost by I think 7, 3 years ago. CUSA has traveled very well to this bowl, I agree the SEC carries the load, but CUSA sure has not been a burden on it.

Quote:That is accurate. Here is the overall record and attendance for the Liberty Bowl. When the bowl was moved from Philadelphia to Memphis in 1965, attendance immediately improved. Note that there have been some games involving the SEC when attendance was not so great. Note also that from 1994 thru 2005 attendance for games between C-USA and the MWC were quite respectable. And the average victory margin of the SEC over C-USA for the 4 games played so far is 6 points - not a "beatdown" in my book. A "beatdown" would be more like the 1997 score between Southern Miss and Pitt.

A beatdown is also more like what happened to Memphis in the St Pete Bowl against USF in 2009 (41-14) or the game that Memphis played in against Houston 2009 (55-14)

Quote:DATE TEAM ATTENDANCE
1/02/2010 Arkansas 20 - East Carolina 17 (OT) 62,742
1/02/2009 Kentucky 25 - East Carolina 19 56,125
12/29/2007 Mississippi State 10 – UCF 3 63,816
12/29/2006 South Carolina 44 – Houston 36 56,103
12/31/2005 Tulsa 31 – Fresno State 24 54,894
12/31/2004 Louisville 44 - Boise State 40 58,355
12/31/2003 Utah 17 - Southern Miss 0 55,917
12/31/2002 TCU 17 - Colorado State 3 55,207
12/31/2001 Louisville 28 - BYU 10 58,968
12/29/2000 Colorado St 22 - Louisville 17 58,302
12/31/1999 Southern Miss 23 - Colorado St 17 56,570
12/31/1998 Tulane 41 - BYU 27 52,192
12/31/1997 Southern Miss 41 - Pittsburgh 7 50,209
12/27/1996 Syracuse 30 - Houston 17 49,163
12/30/1995 East Carolina 19 - Stanford 13 47,307
12/31/1994 Illinois 30 - East Carolina 0 46,212
12/28/1993 Louisville 18 - Michigan St 7 21,097
12/31/1992 Ole Miss 13 - Air Force 0 47,602
12/29/1991 Air Force 38 - Miss St. 15 61,497
12/27/1990 Air Force 23 - Ohio St. 11 32,262

12/28/1989 Ole Miss 42 - Air Force 29 60,128
12/28/1988 Indiana 34 - S. Carolina 10 32,210
12/29/1987 Georgia 20 - Arkansas 17 53,240
12/29/1986 Tennessee 21 - Minnesota 14 51,357
12/27/1985 Baylor 21 - LSU 7 40,186
12/27/1984 Auburn 21 - Arkansas 15 50,180
12/29/1983 Notre Dame 19 - Boston Co. 18 48,071
12/29/1982 Alabama 21 - Illinois 15 54,123
12/30/1981 Ohio St 31 - Navy 28 43,216
12/27/1980 Purdue 28 - Missouri 25 53,667
12/22/1979 Penn St. 9 - Tulane 6 50,021
12/23/1978 Missouri 20 - LSU 15 53,064
12/19/1977 Nebraska 21 - N. Carolina 17 49,456
12/20/1976 Alabama 36 - UCLA 6 52,736
12/22/1975 So. Cal. 20 - Texas A & M 0 52,129
12/16/1974 Tennessee 7 - Maryland 3 51,284
12/17/1973 N. C. St. 31 - Kansas 18 50,011
12/18/1972 Georgia Tech 31 - Iowa St 30 50,021
12/20/1971 Tennessee 14 - Arkansas 13 45,410
12/12/1970 Tulane 17 - Colorado 3 44,460
12/13/1969 Colorado 47 - Alabama 33 50,042
12/14/1968 Ole Miss 34 - VA Tech 17 46,206
12/16/1967 N.C. St 14 - Georgia 7 35,054
12/10/1966 Miami 14 - VA Tech 7 39,101
12/18/1965 Ole Miss 13 - Auburn 7 38,607
12/19/1964 Utah 32 - W. VA 6 6,059
12/21/1963 Miss St. 16 - N.C. St. 12 8,309
12/15/1962 Oregon St. 6 - Villanova 0 17,047
12/16/1961 Syracuse 15 - Miami 14 15,712
12/17/1960 Penn St. 41 - Oregon 12 16,624
12/19/1959 Penn St. 7 - Alabama 0 36,211

I also love the shot that you took at Syracuse as if the Liberty Bowl that they played in was so poorly attended, when in reality it was the second highest attended Liberty Bowl since 1990. And there were some other Liberty Bowl games during that time that had attendance in 20,000 range.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2010 05:47 PM by cuseroc.)
01-21-2010 05:41 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #27
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-21-2010 03:48 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  And the average victory margin of the SEC over C-USA for the 4 games played so far is 6 points - not a "beatdown" in my book.

Let's face it: Unless C-USA is a complete joke, the #1 C-USA team should be able to beat the #7 SEC team. I'm surprised it hasn't happened.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2010 05:52 PM by quo vadis.)
01-21-2010 05:52 PM
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Post: #28
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-21-2010 05:52 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-21-2010 03:48 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  And the average victory margin of the SEC over C-USA for the 4 games played so far is 6 points - not a "beatdown" in my book.

Let's face it: Unless C-USA is a complete joke, the #1 C-USA team should be able to beat the #7 SEC team. I'm surprised it hasn't happened.

I absolutely agree. A loss is still a loss whether its by 50 points or by 6 points, unless of course you believe that there are moral victories. I could see where someone would be demoralized by getting blown out though, but a close loss is still a close loss.
01-21-2010 06:14 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #29
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-21-2010 03:56 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  
(01-20-2010 06:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I just wonder why we're spending so much time talking about a bowl we're not affiliated with, that would pit whoever against the #9 team in the SEC. This isn't a big time bowl game any longer, no matter what the folks in Memphis, and the rest of CUSA think. It's a game against someone that finished close to LAST in the SEC. The Liberty Bowl is a useless anachronism, along with more than half of the other bowl games. Besides a few obstinate morons, who cares?
agree, but still would be an improvement over toronto bowl.
6.5 mil watched liberty bowl. That's a fair amount of morons.
Anything is an improvement over a bowl game in Canada that requires a passport and parkas...
01-21-2010 06:15 PM
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Crimsonelf Offline
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Post: #30
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-21-2010 05:41 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(01-21-2010 03:48 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  [quote='goodknightfl' pid='5076713' dateline='1264028556']
This game has gotten both great crowds and Tv ratings. The Sec has won all the games so far, but they have not been beatdowns. ECU has led at the 1/2 the last 2 years and UCF lost by I think 7, 3 years ago. CUSA has traveled very well to this bowl, I agree the SEC carries the load, but CUSA sure has not been a burden on it.

Quote:That is accurate. Here is the overall record and attendance for the Liberty Bowl. When the bowl was moved from Philadelphia to Memphis in 1965, attendance immediately improved. Note that there have been some games involving the SEC when attendance was not so great. Note also that from 1994 thru 2005 attendance for games between C-USA and the MWC were quite respectable. And the average victory margin of the SEC over C-USA for the 4 games played so far is 6 points - not a "beatdown" in my book. A "beatdown" would be more like the 1997 score between Southern Miss and Pitt.

A beatdown is also more like what happened to Memphis in the St Pete Bowl against USF in 2009 (41-14) or the game that Memphis played in against Houston 2009 (55-14)

Quote:DATE TEAM ATTENDANCE

12/28/1993 Louisville 18 - Michigan St 7 21,097

I also love the shot that you took at Syracuse as if the Liberty Bowl that they played in was so poorly attended, when in reality it was the second highest attended Liberty Bowl since 1990. And there were some other Liberty Bowl games during that time that had attendance in 20,000 range.

I remember watching that poorly attended UL-MSU game in 93, it was the fog bowl, if memory serves...

Edit to shorten post
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2010 11:04 PM by Crimsonelf.)
01-21-2010 08:46 PM
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CollegeCard Offline
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Post: #31
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-21-2010 08:46 PM)Crimsonelf Wrote:  
(01-21-2010 03:48 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  DATE TEAM ATTENDANCE
12/28/1993 Louisville 18 - Michigan St 7 21,097

I remember watching that poorly attended UL-MSU game in 93, it was the fog bowl, if memory serves...

Yes, the attendance was due to the weather. I was younger but my family had 4 tickets in hand and a few hours before leaving Louisville we heard the state police had shut I-65 down completely around Bowling Green, so that was the end of the trip before we even left home. I suspect the bowl sold their normal amount of tickets, but most Cardinal fans couldn't make it down for the game. I still have the untorn ticket stub from the game.
01-21-2010 09:46 PM
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SF Husky Offline
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Post: #32
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
This year's PapaJohn had record attendence (45K+) and had $18.1M local economy impact. $8M more than last year's PapaJohn Bowl.

http://www.papajohnsbowl.com/EconomicImpact.pdf
01-22-2010 09:19 PM
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Tallgrass Offline
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Post: #33
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
The Big-12 has in past expressed interest in the Liberty Bowl. The geography is superb for Big-12.
01-24-2010 04:32 PM
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Cubanbull Offline
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Post: #34
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
I think what you are more likely to see is that the Big East will end up playing the SEC #8 team in either Liberty or PPJ bowl, while CUSA will end up matched up vs #9 SEC team in either of those two bowls.
so lets say
2010 Liberty SEC #8 vs BE, PPJ SEC #9 vs CUSA
2011 Liberty SEC #9 vs CUSA, PPJ SEC #8 vs BE
2012 same as 2010
2013 same as 2011
01-24-2010 04:39 PM
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TIGER-PAUL Offline
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RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
if that's how it ends up, big upgrade for BE for that slot.
01-24-2010 04:59 PM
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Post: #36
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-24-2010 04:39 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  I think what you are more likely to see is that the Big East will end up playing the SEC #8 team in either Liberty or PPJ bowl, while CUSA will end up matched up vs #9 SEC team in either of those two bowls.
so lets say
2010 Liberty SEC #8 vs BE, PPJ SEC #9 vs CUSA
2011 Liberty SEC #9 vs CUSA, PPJ SEC #8 vs BE
2012 same as 2010
2013 same as 2011

Liberty has already re-upped w/C-USA for four years. Based on payout, I can't see C-USA willingly going to Birmingham without a serious increase in payout. Guess it will depend on what PJ.com does.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2010 05:03 PM by mattsarz.)
01-24-2010 05:02 PM
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Post: #37
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-24-2010 05:02 PM)mattsarz Wrote:  
(01-24-2010 04:39 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  I think what you are more likely to see is that the Big East will end up playing the SEC #8 team in either Liberty or PPJ bowl, while CUSA will end up matched up vs #9 SEC team in either of those two bowls.
so lets say
2010 Liberty SEC #8 vs BE, PPJ SEC #9 vs CUSA
2011 Liberty SEC #9 vs CUSA, PPJ SEC #8 vs BE
2012 same as 2010
2013 same as 2011

Liberty has already re-upped w/C-USA for four years. Based on payout, I can't see C-USA willingly going to Birmingham without a serious increase in payout. Guess it will depend on what PJ.com does.

It will depend MORE on what the SEC demands. You think that the Liberty will risk losing the SEC?
01-24-2010 06:02 PM
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Post: #38
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
(01-24-2010 06:02 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  
(01-24-2010 05:02 PM)mattsarz Wrote:  
(01-24-2010 04:39 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  I think what you are more likely to see is that the Big East will end up playing the SEC #8 team in either Liberty or PPJ bowl, while CUSA will end up matched up vs #9 SEC team in either of those two bowls.
so lets say
2010 Liberty SEC #8 vs BE, PPJ SEC #9 vs CUSA
2011 Liberty SEC #9 vs CUSA, PPJ SEC #8 vs BE
2012 same as 2010
2013 same as 2011

Liberty has already re-upped w/C-USA for four years. Based on payout, I can't see C-USA willingly going to Birmingham without a serious increase in payout. Guess it will depend on what PJ.com does.

It will depend MORE on what the SEC demands. You think that the Liberty will risk losing the SEC?

Maybe the SEC can buyout C-USA (sarcasm)? All I'm saying is that 1/2 of that tie-in is set, and its not the SEC half. Contracts are signed. They can be broken, but I'd guess there'd need to be some cash exchanged to do it.
01-24-2010 06:09 PM
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TIGER-PAUL Offline
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Post: #39
RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
sec has liberty/cusa against wall. I'm kind of looking the other way because it appears the BE will benefit from this, but sec is not exactly acting like a good partner in good faith vs cusa. I didn't appreciate the way the gator bowl operated vs BE. oh well.
01-24-2010 06:34 PM
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Tallgrass Offline
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RE: BE still talking with Papa Johns Bowl
Well, since everyone is speculating, here's my two cents of speculation.

Why Rotating SEC #8/#9 in Liberty May Not be Possible
http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=415194
01-25-2010 09:37 AM
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