(01-17-2010 11:58 PM)Airport KC Wrote:  Here is another article about Eastern Michigan scholarship cuts, this time for students.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/nov200...-n24.shtml

Over 14% of EMU's student body receives this award about to be cut.

EMU's adminstration though is more concerned about maintaining its status in FBS...

The implication seems to be that because this scholarship is being cut (and football is not) that clearly EMU cares more about Football (FBS) than their students..

I have to ask, how is the *state* of Michigan cutting scholarships reflective of EMU's attitude towards students? The State Government of Michigan is economically imploding so are cuts not warranted?

What the MAC should consider if it wants to cut costs and keep the conference viable in the 2 sports were most revenue is generated is to drop baseball which is not only expensive in terms of travel costs(teams having to go south the first half of the year in Feb & March) but you'd cut 20-30 scholarships off your men's totals in a sport MAC programs have a slight chance in being competitive in nationally.

You will definitely see a trend in FCS programs either dropping down to 1AAA life Drake, Butler, Valpo, Dayton, Georgetown & St John(glorified III ball) or dropping the sport entirely if they can't get their home attendance over 5k per game.

(01-17-2010 06:15 PM)Airport KC Wrote:  

(01-17-2010 02:41 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-17-2010 12:57 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  Football really is FBS or nothing. The FCS is simply unsustainable.

This should be a wake up call for schools like IL. State.

They can minimize their losses by moving up.

Crazy logic to many folks but this thread suggests otherwise.

I have thought, depending on how the Temple experiement goes that if the Owls move on the next logical move for the MAC would be to try and offer Illinois St/Indiana St for all sports.

What is in it for Illiniois St/Indiana St. to join the MAC? Lower travel costs than the Missouri Valley and potential revenue increase as FBS members. A couple of name schools would add balance to the conference and not make things so directionally focused.

State Names: Illinois St, Indiana St, Ohio
City Names: Toledo, Akron, Buffalo
Unique names: Miami, Bowling Green, Kent St, Ball St.
Directionals: NIU, WMU, CMU, EMU

Toledo then could move to the East with all the Ohio schools in the same division. Travel would decrease for NIU/BSU/WMU with Indiana/Illinios St in the fold.

MAC basketball would be better with the addition of 2 MVC schools too.

IN St is horrible in football, they ought to drop down to 1AAA like Butler & Valpo. IL St has gone backward also, they've had losing records in the MVC the last couple years. Dont' draw much attendance either.

(01-18-2010 01:16 AM)Airport KC Wrote:  

(01-16-2010 06:42 AM)emu steve Wrote:  1). Excellent article on those road football guarantees. EMU is at around 1.8M bucks in both '09 and '10.

The average league wide is about 1 million in guarentees a year. EMU is sacrificing competitiveness for the paycheck.

Quote:2). MOST of those bucks go back to the athletic department to support the ENTIRE department. EMU FB is not an independent 'subsidiary' which gets to keep its own revenues.

The bucks go back to support the entire department for money games but its not like its anywhere near the amount of money required to self sustain an athletic department. EMU is spending 21 million to subsidize the athletic department with about 2.1 million in revenue.

Quote:3). Buried in the article is some information about how MAC schools KICK IN monies in support of the MAC bowls. Apparently the MAC makes guarantees, helps defray costs of tickets purchased by schools, etc. Those bowls are money losers. I didn't see 10K NIU fans in Toronto, CMU fans in Mobile, BG fans in Boise, Ohio fans in Detroit, etc.). Only Temple this year probably had say 7 - 10K fans at their bowl. MAC is making a lot of guarantees and probably eating a lot of tickets. Bowls are about exposure and not revenue.

I agree the bowls are about exposure not revenue. Even the true payouts of these games as we are learning are based on tickets sold often times and can really vary by the indvidual deal struck by the school.

Quote:IF (and it WILL NOT happen) a school drops down to I-A, then their expenses drop BUT their revenues drop MORE. BAD, BAD deal.

A school moving down will lose some ability in making game gaurantees, though they are rising for FCS schools. MAC schools do not have significant season ticket bases anyway and if they did I will note that several FCS programs are drawing better than the MAC in FCS.

Quote:What DOES make sense is for I-AA schools to DROP Football (not move down to D-II) as several have done.

It depends on the situation. If your school has a clunky football stadium in the city that nobody cares about like several private schools we know then you may as well just drop it.

EMU is in a situation where if they did drop to DII and played Hillsdale and Grand Valley State they could host DII playoff games in Rynerson. DII only requires 36 football scholarships.

Quote:EMU gets almost 2M bucks in football guarantees a year, a I-AA team might get say 750K (assuming a 500K I-A guarantee), and a D-II team maybe less then 100K (or maybe a small fraction of that say 25K for a non-conference, road game).

I know when Ohio gives an FCS school a guarantee they pay in the neighborhood of 300-400k. Ohio did play the likes of Youngstown State back in the day but FCS schools of that caliber are now demanding payouts in the 500-600 range. It is entirely possible for an FCS program to net a 1 million a year in guarentees if they wanted to whore themselves out for money.

Quote:D-IAA and D-II FB are worse bets. Expenses are much less but revenues are pitiful (esp. D-II). What does a GLIAC school not named Grand Valley get in home ticket sales per season? Bet most schools have ticket revenues of 50 - 75K bucks per season. (say 10K home paid attendance spread over 5 games - remember students usually get in free so student attendance isn't a ticket revenue source.).

EMU is only bringing in 200k in ticket revenues for every sport in its athletic department combined. How much lower could things go in DII? If EMU could start winning then that total goes up over 200k.

Quote:Last, and not least. EMU gets say 600K+ per year in athletic department contributions (giving). Move to D-II and that amount would probably be less then 100K. Oops, there would go another 500K on the balance sheet. :(

Maybe. In the grand scheme its not very much though when you are talking a 20 million dollar athletic budget. If EMU can cut its budget in half by moving to DII (saving 10 million a year) then it will make up for whatever drop in contributions.

EMU has the facilities to be a player in FCS or DII and would have no problem attracting players at that level.

If you're looking at a strategy purely to save money and make cuts in sports that are expensive and don't put much $ back into the athletic department then drop baseball.

With all the hoops talent in the detroit area EMU have a much better hoops program than they do. Drop baseball and some of that revenue into Hoops.

(01-19-2010 01:11 AM)onlinepole Wrote:  What the MAC should consider if it wants to cut costs and keep the conference viable in the 2 sports were most revenue is generated is to drop baseball which is not only expensive in terms of travel costs(teams having to go south the first half of the year in Feb & March) but you'd cut 20-30 scholarships off your men's totals in a sport MAC programs have a slight chance in being competitive in nationally.

You are way off on the Baseball Scholarship numbers. The Max allowable scholarships in baseball set by the NCAA is 11.7, and that assumes a school is fully funding.

My guess on the cost of the "southern trips" that MAC teams make early in the spring would be in the 30K range total provided the teams are busing to their destinations and not flying. Obviously, flying would up the costs. I would venture to guess that MAC baseball stadium costs are relatively inexpensive as well. So I guess I'm saying that in the grand scheme of costs.....baseball isn't really that expensive.

I will grant you that northern teams are at a disadvantage competitively due to weather factors, but that includes all northern teams, Big 10 and Big East included.

It has been suggested by some that Hockey should replace baseball as a mens sport in the MAC. I would be willing to bet that Hockey is more expensive, largely due to the cost of building and maintaining a Hockey facility. Some of the MAC posters of schools that currently have hockey may be able to shed some more light on the cost comparisons. BTW, NCAA hockey scholarship limits are 18 for mens hockey which is more than baseball.

(01-18-2010 03:31 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(01-17-2010 11:58 PM)Airport KC Wrote:  Here is another article about Eastern Michigan scholarship cuts, this time for students.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/nov200...-n24.shtml

Over 14% of EMU's student body receives this award about to be cut.

EMU's adminstration though is more concerned about maintaining its status in FBS...

The implication seems to be that because this scholarship is being cut (and football is not) that clearly EMU cares more about Football (FBS) than their students..

I have to ask, how is the *state* of Michigan cutting scholarships reflective of EMU's attitude towards students? The State Government of Michigan is economically imploding so are cuts not warranted?

Scholarship cuts are waranted with the economy but EMU should respond in like and cut its athletic budget when the school is facing huge cuts.

(01-19-2010 01:14 AM)onlinepole Wrote:  IN St is horrible in football, they ought to drop down to 1AAA like Butler & Valpo. IL St has gone backward also, they've had losing records in the MVC the last couple years. Dont' draw much attendance either.

This is almost verbatim what was said about NIU and Buffalo when they joined the MAC.

How'd that turn out for all involved?

Bring on IN St and IL St!

(01-19-2010 11:49 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-19-2010 01:14 AM)onlinepole Wrote:  IN St is horrible in football, they ought to drop down to 1AAA like Butler & Valpo. IL St has gone backward also, they've had losing records in the MVC the last couple years. Dont' draw much attendance either.

This is almost verbatim what was said about NIU and Buffalo when they joined the MAC.

How'd that turn out for all involved?

Bring on IN St and IL St!

The difference is Indiana State stadium would require major upgrades or replacement. NIU had Huskie Stadium, while UB had a brand-new UB Stadium that only required $2 Mil. in expansion. Their master plan has a wish list of things such as a new on-campus stadium, but it is the final item on their list and is characterized as 'being phased in over a number of years'. This 'name' school is actually very far down in the state's higher ed. priorities. They'd also need to add 4 teams for the MAC, as SIU and ISU would not need to do.

I'd rate IN. State a better candidate to drop football (as did say E. TN. State years ago) then to go I-A.

Just my 2 cents.

Quote:The average league wide is about 1 million in guarentees a year. EMU is sacrificing competitiveness for the paycheck.

Wouldn't EMU have to be competitive first to sacrifice competitiveness?

(01-23-2010 10:31 PM)CMichFan Wrote:  

Quote:The average league wide is about 1 million in guarentees a year. EMU is sacrificing competitiveness for the paycheck.

Wouldn't EMU have to be competitive first to sacrifice competitiveness?

Bastard!

(01-23-2010 11:09 PM)HuronDave Wrote:  

(01-23-2010 10:31 PM)CMichFan Wrote:  

Quote:The average league wide is about 1 million in guarentees a year. EMU is sacrificing competitiveness for the paycheck.

Wouldn't EMU have to be competitive first to sacrifice competitiveness?

Bastard!

Actually we were competitive, damn competitive, actually dominating when we played Indiana State.

Trouble is we couldn't schedule them 4 times in a single season for our OOC schedule.

That would have made us bowl competitive. I mean not competitive but bowl ELIGIBLE.