(01-07-2010 06:34 PM)mjs Wrote:  [quote='insideualr' pid='5031263' dateline='1262899704']
Less than 10 hours left. Anyone want to make a final pitch for or against coaching change?

Probably everything has been said. But sometimes it takes a luncheon like today to remind me what a fine, class individual Steve is. We'll never get anyone better on the count. We've had back to back seasons of 20 and 23 wins. That's the best 2 seasons in a row in 20 years. The last time we've had two 20 wins seasons in a row was 1988-89 and 1989-90 and it took Newell winning 3 tournament games at home in 89-90 to get there. Yes, we're having a down year. All midmajors have them. A key injury didn't help. We get a Juco big, we will be very (not pretty) good next year. I can't even believe we are having this discussion, to be honest with you DI.
[/quote

I know some won't agree, but you make some good points. Steve is a class individual, and after evaluating all of our choices, it makes sense to me to leave well enough alone. I know this will surprise Kerry, since he has thought I was in favor of a change, and I have made comments that could be construed that way, but most were speculation as to what might happen under certain circumstances.

If the time comes when Chris feels for some reason we need a change, then it will take place. But unless we had some fantastic, sure-fire coach who we knew could turn this into a big time mid major immediately, it would make no sense to change coaches.
If we did, you can pretty well rest assured we'd have a least one bad season following this one. So to end my participation in this discussion,
my final thought is be happy with what we have and as someone said "be careful what you wish for, because you might get it". My vote is for Steve. Nothing further to say on this issue on my part.

(01-07-2010 06:43 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(01-07-2010 06:34 PM)mjs Wrote:  [quote='insideualr' pid='5031263' dateline='1262899704']
Less than 10 hours left. Anyone want to make a final pitch for or against coaching change?

Probably everything has been said. But sometimes it takes a luncheon like today to remind me what a fine, class individual Steve is. We'll never get anyone better on the count. We've had back to back seasons of 20 and 23 wins. That's the best 2 seasons in a row in 20 years. The last time we've had two 20 wins seasons in a row was 1988-89 and 1989-90 and it took Newell winning 3 tournament games at home in 89-90 to get there. Yes, we're having a down year. All midmajors have them. A key injury didn't help. We get a Juco big, we will be very (not pretty) good next year. I can't even believe we are having this discussion, to be honest with you DI.
[/quote

I know some won't agree, but you make some good points. Steve is a class individual, and after evaluating all of our choices, it makes sense to me to leave well enough alone. I know this will surprise Kerry, since he has thought I was in favor of a change, and I have made comments that could be construed that way, but most were speculation as to what might happen under certain circumstances.

If the time comes when Chris feels for some reason we need a change, then it will take place. But unless we had some fantastic, sure-fire coach who we knew could turn this into a big time mid major immediately, it would make no sense to change coaches.
If we did, you can pretty well rest assured we'd have a least one bad season following this one. So to end my participation in this discussion,
my final thought is be happy with what we have and as someone said "be careful what you wish for, because you might get it". My vote is for Steve. Nothing further to say on this issue on my part.

Doc, you never fail to surprise me. You go to one coaches lucheon, and you back on the Shields bandwagon again. Was NancyPelosi or Harry Reid at that meeting today, and did they make you an offer you couldn't refuse?

(01-07-2010 07:26 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-07-2010 06:43 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(01-07-2010 06:34 PM)mjs Wrote:  [quote='insideualr' pid='5031263' dateline='1262899704']
Less than 10 hours left. Anyone want to make a final pitch for or against coaching change?

Probably everything has been said. But sometimes it takes a luncheon like today to remind me what a fine, class individual Steve is. We'll never get anyone better on the count. We've had back to back seasons of 20 and 23 wins. That's the best 2 seasons in a row in 20 years. The last time we've had two 20 wins seasons in a row was 1988-89 and 1989-90 and it took Newell winning 3 tournament games at home in 89-90 to get there. Yes, we're having a down year. All midmajors have them. A key injury didn't help. We get a Juco big, we will be very (not pretty) good next year. I can't even believe we are having this discussion, to be honest with you DI.
[/quote

I know some won't agree, but you make some good points. Steve is a class individual, and after evaluating all of our choices, it makes sense to me to leave well enough alone. I know this will surprise Kerry, since he has thought I was in favor of a change, and I have made comments that could be construed that way, but most were speculation as to what might happen under certain circumstances.

If the time comes when Chris feels for some reason we need a change, then it will take place. But unless we had some fantastic, sure-fire coach who we knew could turn this into a big time mid major immediately, it would make no sense to change coaches.
If we did, you can pretty well rest assured we'd have a least one bad season following this one. So to end my participation in this discussion,
my final thought is be happy with what we have and as someone said "be careful what you wish for, because you might get it". My vote is for Steve. Nothing further to say on this issue on my part.

Doc, you never fail to surprise me. You go to one coaches lucheon, and you back on the Shields bandwagon again. Was NancyPelosi or Harry Reid at that meeting today, and did they make you an offer you couldn't refuse?

Seems like he left you hanging out to dry. We may good-naturedly disagree on some things, but there is no better fan than you, and I appreciate your willingness to express your feelings and stick by your guns.

(01-07-2010 07:26 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-07-2010 06:43 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(01-07-2010 06:34 PM)mjs Wrote:  [quote='insideualr' pid='5031263' dateline='1262899704']
Less than 10 hours left. Anyone want to make a final pitch for or against coaching change?

Probably everything has been said. But sometimes it takes a luncheon like today to remind me what a fine, class individual Steve is. We'll never get anyone better on the count. We've had back to back seasons of 20 and 23 wins. That's the best 2 seasons in a row in 20 years. The last time we've had two 20 wins seasons in a row was 1988-89 and 1989-90 and it took Newell winning 3 tournament games at home in 89-90 to get there. Yes, we're having a down year. All midmajors have them. A key injury didn't help. We get a Juco big, we will be very (not pretty) good next year. I can't even believe we are having this discussion, to be honest with you DI.
[/quote

I know some won't agree, but you make some good points. Steve is a class individual, and after evaluating all of our choices, it makes sense to me to leave well enough alone. I know this will surprise Kerry, since he has thought I was in favor of a change, and I have made comments that could be construed that way, but most were speculation as to what might happen under certain circumstances.

If the time comes when Chris feels for some reason we need a change, then it will take place. But unless we had some fantastic, sure-fire coach who we knew could turn this into a big time mid major immediately, it would make no sense to change coaches.
If we did, you can pretty well rest assured we'd have a least one bad season following this one. So to end my participation in this discussion,
my final thought is be happy with what we have and as someone said "be careful what you wish for, because you might get it". My vote is for Steve. Nothing further to say on this issue on my part.

Doc, you never fail to surprise me. You go to one coaches lucheon, and you back on the Shields bandwagon again. Was NancyPelosi or Harry Reid at that meeting today, and did they make you an offer you couldn't refuse?

Bob, I am voting democrat from now on too. those two snake oil salesmen have convinced me the everyone better off than me owes me and everyone that is worse off, well it sucks to be them....

I am going to leave this up for 7 days. I have started a poll and we can vote on it.


I am going to make the case for Steve. He has taken the program to being 3rd in the conference in mens basketball most years. 43 wins over the last 2 seasons. Most years we are one player away, one of these years we are going to have the one player and win the regular season out right title and the tournament.

We need to come together and support Steve and the kids the rest of the way. It is a killer to have to play out manned. We have been in 3 of the conference games. I still think we can go 8 and 8 in conference.

So, a total of 8 people want to have a say in the poll about to have coaching change or not have coaching change?

Nothing like a good controversy to get a long thread going, is there?

(01-09-2010 08:39 AM)insideualr Wrote:  So, a total of 8 people want to have a say in the poll about to have coaching change or not have coaching change?

Yeah, but these are the only eight that count.

(01-09-2010 08:39 AM)insideualr Wrote:  So, a total of 8 people want to have a say in the poll about to have coaching change or not have coaching change?

DI, how many regular posters do we actually have. I can name most and 8 is a healthy percentage of those. And we stil might have a couple of posters who are simply "undecided" at his point.

(01-09-2010 08:39 AM)insideualr Wrote:  So, a total of 8 people want to have a say in the poll about to have coaching change or not have coaching change?

Well the poll is over, and I accept the fact that my side lost, and I knew that was the feeling on this board. I know who the other vote to fire the coach was. I can accept the vote with no problems, but what pisses me off is for two guys on this board to email me and tell me that they agree that a coaching change is necessary, but they can't say so on the board. I didn't have a problem with them not wanting to publicly state their feelings, but obviously they didn't vote that way in the poll. I don't know why they'd lie to me about this. I don't have any hard feelings for anyone on the other side of this issue. But, dammit, don't go out of your way to send me an email, and tell me a ******* lie.

(01-09-2010 10:39 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 08:39 AM)insideualr Wrote:  So, a total of 8 people want to have a say in the poll about to have coaching change or not have coaching change?

Well the poll is over, and I accept the fact that my side lost, and I knew that was the feeling on this board. I know who the other vote to fire the coach was. I can accept the vote with no problems, but what pisses me off is for two guys on this board to email me and tell me that they agree that a coaching change is necessary, but they can't say so on the board. I didn't have a problem with them not wanting to publicly state their feelings, but obviously they didn't vote that way in the poll. I don't know why they'd lie to me about this. I don't have any hard feelings for anyone on the other side of this issue. But, dammit, don't go out of your way to send me an email, and tell me a ******* lie.

I'll take the heat for that Bob. I will admit I thought a change might be appropriate, but after a lot of soul searching, I reavaluated my position and thought that, first of all, the season isn't over. If we can get on a decent win streak, it would give us some momentum going into next year, if, as several have said, we could find one inside player who could make an impact.

If I knew for certain that this program could hire a new coach good enough who could come in and by some miracle turn the program around in one season, than I would possibly be in favor of a change, but chances are, at least next year, we'd have another awful season with the change. So I felt that with our returnees next year, plus anyone we might sign, we could have a pretty good, or even maybe a very good season. However I will say this publicly. As much as I like our current coaches, I just think it's imperative that we reach the postseason next year. If we don't, then it's probably the time for the powers that be to consider moving in another direction. As one of the Florida State trustees said when he suggested it was time for Bobby Bowden to step down. "I love Bobby Bowden but I love Florida State more". But we need to establish the postseason next year as a goal that must be met. That should be imperative.

Now should we continue to lose and a change is made, that's fine. Whatver Chris decides to do this year I will agree with. But if another season goes by with non productive results, then I would support a change, and although I can't speak for anyone else, I think that a greater majority of fans would agree that it's probably time.

(01-09-2010 10:59 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 10:39 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 08:39 AM)insideualr Wrote:  So, a total of 8 people want to have a say in the poll about to have coaching change or not have coaching change?

Well the poll is over, and I accept the fact that my side lost, and I knew that was the feeling on this board. I know who the other vote to fire the coach was. I can accept the vote with no problems, but what pisses me off is for two guys on this board to email me and tell me that they agree that a coaching change is necessary, but they can't say so on the board. I didn't have a problem with them not wanting to publicly state their feelings, but obviously they didn't vote that way in the poll. I don't know why they'd lie to me about this. I don't have any hard feelings for anyone on the other side of this issue. But, dammit, don't go out of your way to send me an email, and tell me a ******* lie.

I'll take the heat for that Bob. I will admit I thought a change might be appropriate, but after a lot of soul searching, I reavaluated my position and thought that, first of all, the season isn't over. If we can get on a decent win streak, it would give us some momentum going into next year, if, as several have said, we could find one inside player who could make an impact.

If I knew for certain that this program could hire a new coach good enough who could come in and by some miracle turn the program around in one season, than I would possibly be in favor of a change, but chances are, at least next year, we'd have another awful season with the change. So I felt that with our returnees next year, plus anyone we might sign, we could have a pretty good, or even maybe a very good season. However I will say this publicly. As much as I like our current coaches, I just think it's imperative that we reach the postseason next year. If we don't, then it's probably the time for the powers that be to consider moving in another direction. As one of the Florida State trustees said when he suggested it was time for Bobby Bowden to step down. "I love Bobby Bowden but I love Florida State more". But we need to establish the postseason next year as a goal that must be met. That should be imperative.

Now should we continue to lose and a change is made, that's fine. Whatver Chris decides to do this year I will agree with. But if another season goes by with non productive results, then I would support a change, and although I can't speak for anyone else, I think that a greater majority of fans would agree that it's probably time.

You identified yourself, but you're only half the heat. Glad to know you'd be for a change if the new guy could turn it around in a year huh(maybe they could hire Harry Houdini). It's a comforting feeling knowing I can count on you next year though.

(01-09-2010 11:40 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 10:59 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 10:39 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 08:39 AM)insideualr Wrote:  So, a total of 8 people want to have a say in the poll about to have coaching change or not have coaching change?

Well the poll is over, and I accept the fact that my side lost, and I knew that was the feeling on this board. I know who the other vote to fire the coach was. I can accept the vote with no problems, but what pisses me off is for two guys on this board to email me and tell me that they agree that a coaching change is necessary, but they can't say so on the board. I didn't have a problem with them not wanting to publicly state their feelings, but obviously they didn't vote that way in the poll. I don't know why they'd lie to me about this. I don't have any hard feelings for anyone on the other side of this issue. But, dammit, don't go out of your way to send me an email, and tell me a ******* lie.

I'll take the heat for that Bob. I will admit I thought a change might be appropriate, but after a lot of soul searching, I reavaluated my position and thought that, first of all, the season isn't over. If we can get on a decent win streak, it would give us some momentum going into next year, if, as several have said, we could find one inside player who could make an impact.

If I knew for certain that this program could hire a new coach good enough who could come in and by some miracle turn the program around in one season, than I would possibly be in favor of a change, but chances are, at least next year, we'd have another awful season with the change. So I felt that with our returnees next year, plus anyone we might sign, we could have a pretty good, or even maybe a very good season. However I will say this publicly. As much as I like our current coaches, I just think it's imperative that we reach the postseason next year. If we don't, then it's probably the time for the powers that be to consider moving in another direction. As one of the Florida State trustees said when he suggested it was time for Bobby Bowden to step down. "I love Bobby Bowden but I love Florida State more". But we need to establish the postseason next year as a goal that must be met. That should be imperative.

Now should we continue to lose and a change is made, that's fine. Whatver Chris decides to do this year I will agree with. But if another season goes by with non productive results, then I would support a change, and although I can't speak for anyone else, I think that a greater majority of fans would agree that it's probably time.

You identified yourself, but you're only half the heat. Glad to know you'd be for a change if the new guy could turn it around in a year huh(maybe they could hire Harry Houdini). It's a comforting feeling knowing I can count on you next year though.

As we've discussed, I really think it should be imperative we reach the postseason either this year (we still have a chance until the tournament is over) or next. There is nothing wrong with making that a definite requirement. Sales managers have goals they eventually have to meet, and if they don't, they are replaced. That's just life. Now assuming your wish comes true and Chris decides to make a change after this season, there could be a plus to that. The right new coach would have a pretty good nucleus coming back with a lot of experience and some skills, so he might have a chance to make an immediate impact without that bad first season.

I know you're firmly committed to a change, and I can understand your reasoning, and certainly don't disagree with you. I will not be upset with whatever decision Chris makes this year, but if he decides on another year, then I would make the NCAA tournament an absolute goal. IMO, the NIT would have been acceptable in the first seven years, but if it goes another season, the NCAA should be the required goal. That's my opinion. Since I really like Steve, as do we all, I hope he can reach these goals. He could pretty well solidify his position by winning the tournament this season.

I don't doubt that we could improve ourselves, but I also figure that the odds that we go the other direction are greater.

(01-09-2010 12:00 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 11:40 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 10:59 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 10:39 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 08:39 AM)insideualr Wrote:  So, a total of 8 people want to have a say in the poll about to have coaching change or not have coaching change?

Well the poll is over, and I accept the fact that my side lost, and I knew that was the feeling on this board. I know who the other vote to fire the coach was. I can accept the vote with no problems, but what pisses me off is for two guys on this board to email me and tell me that they agree that a coaching change is necessary, but they can't say so on the board. I didn't have a problem with them not wanting to publicly state their feelings, but obviously they didn't vote that way in the poll. I don't know why they'd lie to me about this. I don't have any hard feelings for anyone on the other side of this issue. But, dammit, don't go out of your way to send me an email, and tell me a ******* lie.

I'll take the heat for that Bob. I will admit I thought a change might be appropriate, but after a lot of soul searching, I reavaluated my position and thought that, first of all, the season isn't over. If we can get on a decent win streak, it would give us some momentum going into next year, if, as several have said, we could find one inside player who could make an impact.

If I knew for certain that this program could hire a new coach good enough who could come in and by some miracle turn the program around in one season, than I would possibly be in favor of a change, but chances are, at least next year, we'd have another awful season with the change. So I felt that with our returnees next year, plus anyone we might sign, we could have a pretty good, or even maybe a very good season. However I will say this publicly. As much as I like our current coaches, I just think it's imperative that we reach the postseason next year. If we don't, then it's probably the time for the powers that be to consider moving in another direction. As one of the Florida State trustees said when he suggested it was time for Bobby Bowden to step down. "I love Bobby Bowden but I love Florida State more". But we need to establish the postseason next year as a goal that must be met. That should be imperative.

Now should we continue to lose and a change is made, that's fine. Whatver Chris decides to do this year I will agree with. But if another season goes by with non productive results, then I would support a change, and although I can't speak for anyone else, I think that a greater majority of fans would agree that it's probably time.

You identified yourself, but you're only half the heat. Glad to know you'd be for a change if the new guy could turn it around in a year huh(maybe they could hire Harry Houdini). It's a comforting feeling knowing I can count on you next year though.

As we've discussed, I really think it should be imperative we reach the postseason either this year (we still have a chance until the tournament is over) or next. There is nothing wrong with making that a definite requirement. Sales managers have goals they eventually have to meet, and if they don't, they are replaced. That's just life. Now assuming your wish comes true and Chris decides to make a change after this season, there could be a plus to that. The right new coach would have a pretty good nucleus coming back with a lot of experience and some skills, so he might have a chance to make an immediate impact without that bad first season.

I know you're firmly committed to a change, and I can understand your reasoning, and certainly don't disagree with you. I will not be upset with whatever decision Chris makes this year, but if he decides on another year, then I would make the NCAA tournament an absolute goal. IMO, the NIT would have been acceptable in the first seven years, but if it goes another season, the NCAA should be the required goal. That's my opinion. Since I really like Steve, as do we all, I hope he can reach these goals. He could pretty well solidify his position by winning the tournament this season.

Getting hot, lucky, or whatever you want to call it, and winning a tournament wouldn't change my opinion of a coach one iota. For example, Chris has had 7 years to evaluate Steve's coaching. Should 3 or 4 wins in a row trump all that information. Plenty of coaches have gotten lucky and won a tournament. Georgia's coach did a couple of years ago to avoid being fired at the end of the season. Should that have trumped his body of work over the previous 4 seasons? Obviously, a tournament win did not suddenly make him a great coach since he got fired one year later anyway. I just don't put the weight on a "roll the dice tournament" like you do in determining how good a coach is. Jeez, Dickie even won it one year. Wimp never did, despite having it on his own home court several times. Dickie>Wimp, I don't think so. At this point, I think there are 12 teams who could get hot and win our tournament this year. I'll increase that number to 13 once we win a conference game (which hopefully will be tonight).

There is no clear cut right answer. Chris knows all the variables better than we do and when the time comes he will make a more informed decision then any of us ever could. I don't care either way right now. I will have an opinion in March. Since I was asked today, my vote was to keep Steve. He does a lot with limited talent and a boring style, but it appears Steve is beginning to face facts and make some changes on the offensive end. He also had some bad breaks (no pun) this year as well that he can't take blame for. Great coaches can admit that their plan is not working and make adjustments. Great coaches can also experience dry spells and bad breaks. It took 5 seasons after 1956 before John Wooden got UCLA back to postseason and two years later the championship. Steve is committed to integrity and academics, hard work, and toughness. With the right athletes and adjustment of the game he can have the program going to the NCAA again. Or not. We don't have to give him another 5 years, but we don't have to can him mid-season in the court of public opinion either. Yes I believe we can someday hang in the same echelon as Western Kentucky and we don't have to choose between academics/integrity and athletic success.

(01-09-2010 12:00 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 11:40 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 10:59 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 10:39 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(01-09-2010 08:39 AM)insideualr Wrote:  So, a total of 8 people want to have a say in the poll about to have coaching change or not have coaching change?

Well the poll is over, and I accept the fact that my side lost, and I knew that was the feeling on this board. I know who the other vote to fire the coach was. I can accept the vote with no problems, but what pisses me off is for two guys on this board to email me and tell me that they agree that a coaching change is necessary, but they can't say so on the board. I didn't have a problem with them not wanting to publicly state their feelings, but obviously they didn't vote that way in the poll. I don't know why they'd lie to me about this. I don't have any hard feelings for anyone on the other side of this issue. But, dammit, don't go out of your way to send me an email, and tell me a ******* lie.

I'll take the heat for that Bob. I will admit I thought a change might be appropriate, but after a lot of soul searching, I reavaluated my position and thought that, first of all, the season isn't over. If we can get on a decent win streak, it would give us some momentum going into next year, if, as several have said, we could find one inside player who could make an impact.

If I knew for certain that this program could hire a new coach good enough who could come in and by some miracle turn the program around in one season, than I would possibly be in favor of a change, but chances are, at least next year, we'd have another awful season with the change. So I felt that with our returnees next year, plus anyone we might sign, we could have a pretty good, or even maybe a very good season. However I will say this publicly. As much as I like our current coaches, I just think it's imperative that we reach the postseason next year. If we don't, then it's probably the time for the powers that be to consider moving in another direction. As one of the Florida State trustees said when he suggested it was time for Bobby Bowden to step down. "I love Bobby Bowden but I love Florida State more". But we need to establish the postseason next year as a goal that must be met. That should be imperative.

Now should we continue to lose and a change is made, that's fine. Whatver Chris decides to do this year I will agree with. But if another season goes by with non productive results, then I would support a change, and although I can't speak for anyone else, I think that a greater majority of fans would agree that it's probably time.

You identified yourself, but you're only half the heat. Glad to know you'd be for a change if the new guy could turn it around in a year huh(maybe they could hire Harry Houdini). It's a comforting feeling knowing I can count on you next year though.

As we've discussed, I really think it should be imperative we reach the postseason either this year (we still have a chance until the tournament is over) or next. There is nothing wrong with making that a definite requirement. Sales managers have goals they eventually have to meet, and if they don't, they are replaced. That's just life. Now assuming your wish comes true and Chris decides to make a change after this season, there could be a plus to that. The right new coach would have a pretty good nucleus coming back with a lot of experience and some skills, so he might have a chance to make an immediate impact without that bad first season.

I know you're firmly committed to a change, and I can understand your reasoning, and certainly don't disagree with you. I will not be upset with whatever decision Chris makes this year, but if he decides on another year, then I would make the NCAA tournament an absolute goal. IMO, the NIT would have been acceptable in the first seven years, but if it goes another season, the NCAA should be the required goal. That's my opinion. Since I really like Steve, as do we all, I hope he can reach these goals. He could pretty well solidify his position by winning the tournament this season.

Who has he got to solidify his position with? All of his supporters have already voted to keep him around. Lucky doesn't translate into good. A bad team gets lucky, wins the tournament, and the coach has solidified his job. That makes about as much sense as scrathing my ass through my mouth.

Everyday I get up and say, I'm done. I'm not going to say another word on this situation, if the fans want to put up with this crap forever, more power to them. Then I read something like this, and here I go again.

Well, I guess there are just 8 posters. I always thought that there were more, lol.

there has got to be some more posters out there that want to chime in.

I am closing the thread and unsticking it. Jerry wanted a fresh thread after last nights game. I feel inclined to let him have his say.