(11-28-2009 01:31 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  The officials didn't get two punts blocked and the officials didn't fumble on their 30. The officials didn't let Willie Geter bust a 62 yard run when a three and out was just about a must. BG made the plays because BG was and is the better team.

For the third year in a row....

I actually agree

You don't even have to watch it frame by frame. He was still going forward AFTER he lost the ball! I can't believe anyone that has watched that footage would think anything else, unless you are looking thru blue tinted glasses!

(11-28-2009 05:56 PM)factman Wrote:  You don't even have to watch it frame by frame. He was still going forward AFTER he lost the ball! I can't believe anyone that has watched that footage would think anything else, unless you are looking thru blue tinted glasses!

If BGSUcks was the team that 'fumbled' the ball, you would b saying the same exact things. If you say wouldn't, then your looking thru poop colored glasses.

(11-28-2009 01:31 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  The officials didn't get two punts blocked and the officials didn't fumble on their 30. The officials didn't let Willie Geter bust a 62 yard run when a three and out was just about a must. BG made the plays because BG was and is the better team.

Really?? Didn't UT overcome the bad plays and tie the score up??? Wasn't UT going in for another score that would have tied the game up again - thus not giving Geter a chance for the run? The situation would have been totally different in how the game was played from that point on. The fact is that UT made the necessary comeback to overcome those bad plays. BG also never established any momentum because UT literally handed them 21 points - and that was proven when UT got the momentum for most of the game.

BG is the better team because they won the game - I can't argue with how the result came out and I have no idea if they still would have won the game if the play had been whistled dead.

But I'll look at it frame by frame because apparently somebody borrowed Zapruder's camera to film just that play.

When you win a MAC championship again - if ever, then let me know how great BG is. what is it now - 17 years and counting? And the only team to lose the MACC on their own field.

I watched that video a few times. As Page attempted to head to the ground he was stripped.
My opinion is the refs got it right.Not:lock: BLOW THE WHISTLE.
BGSU was the better coached team, UT was the better football team.
Hence good coaching in games like the backyard battle showed how important it plays into the overall result.
sidenote: the refs in the MAC have been swallowing their whistles way too long this season, play after play.
BG was coached to go after the ball against a true frosh( Page) knowing the MAC refs would allow a result which happened on THE PLAY to happen.
I agree with Moto. The refs did the ultimate wrong.BLOW THE WHISTLE.
They made a bad call on blowing a play dead, which dictated the game result, supposedly.
Again I saw the game live and after Page caught the ball and was caught in a scrum for at least a couple seconds I began high fiving fellow fans.
I am still pretty mad and you BG fans who say the call could have went either way are way wrong.
What would have been is all I think about.

(11-28-2009 03:40 PM)Rightupinthere Wrote:  

(11-28-2009 12:15 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  Right - Page was moving the pile with how many BG defenders grabbing onto him?

It doesn't matter if it's 1 second or 3 seconds - that's just a matter of perspective of when his forward progress was stopped. One second is far too much time to wait to blow the damn whistle. What would the call have been if an OL came in and blasted one of those DB's and knocked his a$$ on the ground while they were working to strip the ball??? Any guesses what the call would have been? Do you really think the officials would have let that go even though they didn't blow the whistle yet. Check our game against Ball State for the answer on that. The MAC officials show no consistency in how they call a game, because Cole came in an leveled a Ball State player that was trying to join the pile up to strip the ball from Collins. A 15 yard penalty is what resulted - and the whistle had no been blown.

Try to justify it however you want - it was a ridiculous no call by the officials that could very well have cost us a shot to tie and perhaps win the game.

It's too convenient to argue that because he was not on the ground that he was still moving forward and that only a second or so had transpired. Page had one broken tackle all year that made it on ESPN - the rest of the year he avoided tackles. I can guarantee he was not moving the pile despite your supposed perfect angle. And the officials did not agree with you - YOU are agreeing with them and are simply looking to justify what they called. But, it wouldn't surprise me to find out those idiots took the time to consult with the BG fans before agreeing with what they thought the call should be. .

As I stated when analyzing the play frame by frame. Page caught the ball at the 20. The BG defender [PJ Mahone] was on him at the 15. Somehow, and obviously magically according to the perception of the Rockette faithful, he made it down to the 10 WHEN he was stripped. The ball was recovered on the 11.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to say for certain that his forward progress was stopped when the ball popped out because you can't tell me the exact point the ball came out. Mahone [5'11 and 200lb] was the only one who truly had Page wrapped up. #86 for Toledo came in to push both Majone and Page forward and ended up pushing them East to West.

I'm not sure I understand why I need to justify myself with repetition and I don't understand why no one will watch the replay frame by frame.

Well, good game and good season. Best of holidays to you all. I'm done with fact based upon observation. Please continue your faith in perception.

Educate yourself and then tell me exactly WHEN you would blow the whistle as a ref:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVxcCDivYzE

It's at the 1:10 mark since you need so much done for you.

There's plenty I can do for you. Just let me know.

He's stopped at the 1:12 mark and still at the 1:13 mark - no forward movement. Tell me when the ball came out on the "frame-by-frame" review. The fact that others came into the scrum does not mean he was moving forward. I can't tell which direction he is going in as he is being jostled around for three different directions. The guy to the left did not pull the ball out - it came out from the guy behind him - Sanderson - who also recovered the ball - although I can't even tell if it ever hit the ground. It's clear that all he is trying to do is cover the ball up and not advanced once he was grabbed and solidly held - and that is the point I was making all along. He was held for much longer than a second with no discernable forward progress being made before the ball came out.

I understand it's a judgement call - and the call was not going to be changed no matter how pi$$ed I, Beckman, or any other UT fan was about it. It's not the only time during the game I complained about slow whistles. It goes on all year long and at least once a game somebody gets hurt on those types of plays when a player is being gang tackled. The pile has to fall in some direction and that's when a knee or ankle gets buckled.

(11-28-2009 12:22 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-28-2009 12:15 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  Right - Page was moving the pile with how many BG defenders grabbing onto him?

It doesn't matter if it's 1 second or 3 seconds - that's just a matter of perspective of when his forward progress was stopped. One second is far too much time to wait to blow the damn whistle. What would the call have been if an OL came in and blasted one of those DB's and knocked his a$$ on the ground while they were working to strip the ball??? Any guesses what the call would have been? Do you really think the officials would have let that go even though they didn't blow the whistle yet. Check our game against Ball State for the answer on that. The MAC officials show no consistency in how they call a game, because Cole came in an leveled a Ball State player that was trying to join the pile up to strip the ball from Collins. A 15 yard penalty is what resulted - and the whistle had no been blown.

Try to justify it however you want - it was a ridiculous no call by the officials that could very well have cost us a shot to tie and perhaps win the game.

It's too convenient to argue that because he was not on the ground that he was still moving forward and that only a second or so had transpired. Page had one broken tackle all year that made it on ESPN - the rest of the year he avoided tackles. I can guarantee he was not moving the pile despite your supposed perfect angle. And the officials did not agree with you - YOU are agreeing with them and are simply looking to justify what they called. But, it wouldn't surprise me to find out those idiots took the time to consult with the BG fans before agreeing with what they thought the call should be. .

Well, now you're just being silly. There is no consistency as to forward progress being stopped, that is why it is a judgment call!

And I have said that the call could have gone either way. And as I mentioned, the reason he was moving he pile was because BG was pulling at the ball and not mainly grabbing his body or his legs. And there were also rocket players in the scrum who were also pushing the pile too IIRC.

And I certainly think that many a UT fan will wholeheartedly agree that Page is one special player.

Lastly, I don't have to justify anything. If the whistle had blown before the ball had popped out I would probably be pissed as well. Them's the breaks.

Fair enough.

One bad call by an official was not the reason we lost yesterday, its the 5 turnovers and the team's piss poor 1st quarter that cost UT the game.

(11-28-2009 07:53 PM)utpotts Wrote:  One bad call by an official was not the reason we lost yesterday, its the 5 turnovers and the team's piss poor 1st quarter that cost UT the game.

No one has said one bad play cost us the game. We made a tremendous comeback and had the chance to once again tie the game up. From that point, - assuming we got the ball into the endzone and had momentum back again - it would have been a great game down to the finish.

It's difficult to overcome the turnovers - but we had pretty much done that already. I have no idea if the score would have been any different if we didn't turn the ball over. We were punting into the wind and I could see those ending up in scores anyway. What helped us is that BG never established anything on offense until very late in the game - and even then it was helped out once again by our special teams on the kick-off after we tied the game up.

And here is the rule from the NCAA rule book for 2009/10

Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar, when a ball carrier is out of bounds,
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).

I think even the BG fans have admitted he was held firmly by the BG player who "had him wrapped up". The last part of it is the most relevant - "when in question, the ball is dead"

That's the rule and I stil don't see after reviewing the video and reading the rule and watching it live why they did not blow it dead. The fact that the whistle was not does not mean they still could not have reviewed it and if it was in question - the ruling is that the ball is dead. Period.

(11-28-2009 08:33 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  And here is the rule from the NCAA rule book for 2009/10

Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar, when a ball carrier is out of bounds,
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).

I think even the BG fans have admitted he was held firmly by the BG player who "had him wrapped up". The last part of it is the most relevant - "when in question, the ball is dead"

That's the rule and I stil don't see after reviewing the video and reading the rule and watching it live why they did not blow it dead. The fact that the whistle was not does not mean they still could not have reviewed it and if it was in question - the ruling is that the ball is dead. Period.

Moto- The rules really mean nothing. All that matters is what factman says and if you don't believe that just ask Factman.

Notice that I ignored him and always have.

(11-28-2009 09:29 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  Notice that I ignored him and always have.

Not me. I enjoy a good yuck every now and then.

(11-28-2009 02:12 PM)TJRocket Wrote:  

(11-28-2009 01:31 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  The officials didn't get two punts blocked and the officials didn't fumble on their 30. The officials didn't let Willie Geter bust a 62 yard run when a three and out was just about a must. BG made the plays because BG was and is the better team.

For the third year in a row....

and you're still a lil ***** for (however long you've been around) years in a row.

The fact that you also cheer for the pumpkin and poop just makes you a special lil *****.

Admit it...you're reading this post and you now realize what an embarrassment you are...

BG has started the same QB three years in a row (and Sheehan even saw action in 2006) and UT has started a different QB in each game. I think one of the keys to our success of late is that we've had a bit more stability. Hopefully for you guys Dantin will stick around longer than Linehan and develop...he's a talented kid.

BG has Pankratz and Schilz (*** prospect in 09) and hopefully Watkins and Hurley (both ***'s in 2010) so I don't think we'll be hurting at QB either....

(11-28-2009 02:12 PM)TJRocket Wrote:  and you're still a lil *****

You obviously have never met Flipper in person...lil??? Hardly!!

(11-28-2009 08:33 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  That's the rule and I still don't see after reviewing the video and reading the rule and watching it live why they did not blow it dead.

Because in their judgment his forward progress was not stopped. Now let it go and move along. Geesh!

(11-30-2009 08:01 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-28-2009 08:33 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  That's the rule and I still don't see after reviewing the video and reading the rule and watching it live why they did not blow it dead.

Because in their judgment his forward progress was not stopped. Now let it go and move along. Geesh!

Geesh?

(11-30-2009 08:28 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(11-30-2009 08:01 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-28-2009 08:33 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  That's the rule and I still don't see after reviewing the video and reading the rule and watching it live why they did not blow it dead.

Because in their judgment his forward progress was not stopped. Now let it go and move along. Geesh!

Geesh?

It's an industry acronym for:

Gam
Ended
Ewe
Stupid
Half-wit

(11-29-2009 08:22 PM)FalconFanatic Wrote:  

(11-28-2009 02:12 PM)TJRocket Wrote:  and you're still a lil *****

You obviously have never met Flipper in person...lil??? Hardly!!

Did you just call me a big *****?