Ron Tillery has hit the nail on the head when it comes to the Allen Iverson saga.

It seems to me many around these parts have based their reaction to the AI saga on their opinion of Conley as a basketball player and Hollins as a coach, not on the merits of AI's actions themselves. The fact that both Conley and Hollins have not had adequate time to develop in their roles compared to what most others in their positions are given seems immaterial to many. But I digress.

The point, as Tillery so astutely points out, is that in a he-said-they-said argument all signs point to AI as the problem.

I, for one, am ecstatic the cancer has been removed from the team so that O.J., Rudy, Z-Bo, and Marc can build on the chemistry they're already developing and so that Conley and the rookies will be given a chance to develop.

so Conley hasnt had tie to develop was 2-3 years not enough time

Iverson is a former NBA leading scorer and handles the offense quite well in only half an off season. I thought the goal was to win games? If Conley hasnt developed in 2-3 years then quit being a bunch of sissies and go get another PG. Iverson gives the team a better chance to win the game each night. Lionel Hollins either has his hands tied from someone else is completely ignorant to this fact.

Iverson is a joke. Let him enjoy life without basketball.

Why is it that guys like Brandon Jennings, Russell Westbrook, Jonny Flynn, Stephen Curry come into the league and it doesn't take long for their talent to translate to the NBA but we have to wait on Conley to "develop". The Grizz made a huuuuuuge mistake drafting Thabeet in this draft where there were so many point guards that are already better than Conley.

(11-09-2009 02:09 PM)tigerblue69 Wrote:  Why is it that guys like Brandon Jennings, Russell Westbrook, Jonny Flynn, Stephen Curry come into the league and it doesn't take long for their talent to translate to the NBA but we have to wait on Conley to "develop". The Grizz made a huuuuuuge mistake drafting Thabeet in this draft where there were so many point guards that are already better than Conley.

Who exactly are Jennings, Curry, and Flynn having to pass the ball to? They have no one to pass the ball to. Certainly not four guys the caliber of O.J., Rudy, Z-Bo, and Marc.

(11-09-2009 02:14 PM)TexanTigerFan Wrote:  

(11-09-2009 02:09 PM)tigerblue69 Wrote:  Why is it that guys like Brandon Jennings, Russell Westbrook, Jonny Flynn, Stephen Curry come into the league and it doesn't take long for their talent to translate to the NBA but we have to wait on Conley to "develop". The Grizz made a huuuuuuge mistake drafting Thabeet in this draft where there were so many point guards that are already better than Conley.

Who exactly are Jennings, Curry, and Flynn having to pass the ball to? They have no one to pass the ball to. Certainly not four guys the caliber of O.J., Rudy, Z-Bo, and Marc.

Exactly my point. Opposing teams don't have to pay attention to Conley because he isn't going to make you pay for backing off of him. We need someone at the point who will put pressure on opposing defenses not dribble around for 20 seconds until we have to hoist up a shot before the clock shot expires. And don't get me started on his defense. The entire team has defensive problems but the opposing team's point guard is crapping on Conley's head on a nightly basis. OJ needs to be running the point because he has a better chance of guarding the opposing team's point guard instead of 2 guard. We should have drafted Tyreke and put him with OJ. that would be the backcourt to build around but once again, the organization made a mistake committing to Conley.

(11-09-2009 12:24 PM)TexanTigerFan Wrote:  The point, as Tillery so astutely points out, is that in a he-said-they-said argument all signs point to AI as the problem.

What a shocking statement from a Heisley azz-sucker like the tool bag.

Ok, I have been in the camp of "well, I didn't like the Iverson signing, but now that he is here, start him" but this makes me absolutely cringe:

"During a game last week, Hollins called a play for Iverson at the end of one quarter. It was simple: a big man had to come set a pick for Iverson at the top of the key. An agitated Iverson yelled to the bench something like "I don't need no (expletive) pick to get my shot off!" So what does Hollins do when O.J. Mayo feels like he can fire off one of those precious one-liners? Does Hollins have an obligation to oversee the culture of the team?"

He also stated the comment about no one being particularly upset over him leaving. You could see that in the Clipper game, the team played much looser and better. We didn't execute down the stretch and Conley was even aggressive at the end. His missed FT hurt. I am not a Conley fan because I think at this stage he is way too passive. But, I will say this, he is getting better, and I have a hard time seeing a high cieling on him.

With that said, it took years for Chauncey Billups and Jameer Nelson to develop. Conley has tools and he is certainly a respectable shooter - I have seen him pop 3's or open jumpers when people went under on the pick and roll this year, which is good. But, he needs to be aggressive and dominate the game the way his tools should allow him to do. That simple. Will he ever do that? I am not sure if his personality is that. But, he was nearly ruined under Iavaroni and has played better the last 60 games to a respectable level.

I am taking a wait and see attitude with Conley with a skeptical eye. I hope AI stays away now. After hearing some of this. We did a disservice to him by not being straight with him about his role. That is a crock. But, he needs to be a pro as well.

I think we're better off now. I was for AI but changed my mind when he obviously wouldn't change his. It's hard enough for us to get 'W's today as it is. Maybe now the players can relax abit and play ball.

(11-09-2009 04:15 PM)UofMark Wrote:  I think we're better off now. I was for AI but changed my mind when he obviously wouldn't change his. It's hard enough for us to get 'W's today as it is. Maybe now the players can relax abit and play ball.

So let me get this straight:

Ron "I love Mike Conley" Tillery says AI's the problem, we all believe it?

The same Ron "Hollins is my boy!" Tillery, who wouldn't say anything critical about Hollins?

I'm not sayin' that AI is a saint - we all know he isn't - but you CANNOT tell me that the team is better with Conley running the point vs. AI. You CANNOT tell me that.

Conley has been in the league for how long? The #4 pick in the draft? Tell me now many PGs that have come out since then that you'd rather have...you can stop at three, I've made my point.

AI commands respect on the court...when he's out there, the other team has to account for him. How many times have you seen Conley pitch it inside, Gasol or Z-Bo command a double-team, they pitch it back out to Conley who stands around and dribbles for 5-7 seconds? He's open, freaking shoot the three! If you cannot shoot it and hit, then THAT'S THE POINT.

Defensively, did you see Conley against the Clippers? Baron Davis treats him like a toy. Whoa, BD gets in foul trouble, so then Eric Gordon comes in and treats Conely even worse!

You cannot tell me the team is better with AI ignoring his teammates and jacking up shots. You CANNOT tell me that.

Kind of off the topic here, but WTF was Hollins thinking by calling every single play for Conley in the last three minutes of the game Saturday against the Clippers. Why not go to Rudy who had been playing great all game? Why not go to Mayo who was finally starting to play well at the end? Why the hell are we going to our fourth or fifth best scoring option on the floor during crunch time? Why not just put Thabeet in the game and feed him the ball on every possession? The love affair with Mike Conley is killing this team.

(11-09-2009 04:56 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote:  You cannot tell me the team is better with AI ignoring his teammates and jacking up shots. You CANNOT tell me that.

I can tell you he is better than Mike Conley

This was a horrible idea from the start. Most of us realized that, but went along with it thinking things couldn't get any worse. Management took a long shot. I don't totally blame them, we're due for something to break our way. But this isn't it. It's best the ends quick before it does any real damage.