SO far his hires have not produced. Gilbert won a divisional title with Suzy's players than had a horrendous season last year. Alexander had a so-so first year and English has been a disaster.

Things better improve in the next two years or Gragg should be fired.None of his hires have shown much ability as HC's thus far and the one big "success" can be traced to Diles.(the practice facility)

(10-26-2009 03:48 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote:  SO far his hires have not produced. Gilbert won a divisional title with Suzy's players than had a horrendous season last year. Alexander had a so-so first year and English has been a disaster.

Things better improve in the next two years or Gragg should be fired.None of his hires have shown much ability as HC's thus far and the one big "success" can be traced to Diles.(the practice facility)

Too early to conclude anything about English other than the fact he exposed EMU's lack of talent and depth. He can't fix those things overnight.

Gotta give Marshall time too. His team as short on pitching last year.

Curious - How does Diles get credit for the bubble?

Don't fire Gragg - he was only following this board.

I believe English was the choice of almost everyone on this board.

He was called 'the once in a lifetime EMU hire."

I said if English can't win at EMU no one can. The PERFECT choice for EMU.

I'm not so sure the other FB candidates couldn't have produced ie like Chuck Martin but we'll never know or at least for another couple of years. I don't believe Ron English is the Alpha and Omega of talented assistant coaches that might succeed at the division I level or at EMU.
I'm not sold that's he's the right fit after watching this season so far. We'll see.

Alexander had a rough start last year but got better as the year progressed.

Gragg's next act maybe finding a men's basketball coach. I literally am not confident in his ability to do so.

Gilbert had a down year last year we'll see what happens this year ie improvement is what I'm hoping for.

But in another year for all these coaches there needs to be an evaluation of Gragg-are we improving what is the overall health of the programs. If not I agree (shock) with Wolverineagle.

Keep in mind that I said another two years. I liked the RE and still do, but he has made some bad strategic errors.

Gilbert took what was a consistently winning program and turned it into a 8 win team within two years. This one isn't trending well.

Alexander did finish fairly strong ala Jake Boss so we'll see.

I know people are frustrated and want success immediately. Those of us who have been here for a long time are having a difficult time being patient. Alexander has only just brought in his first recruiting class, Gilbert her 2nd and English had less than 30 days to recruit last year. These coaches need our support, not our 2nd guessing until they have really been given an opportunity to succeed. It is not their fault some of our programs have not been successful but they are giving every ounce of effort to try to turn things aroiund. Anyone who really thinks they can do better can continue to criticize.

Well said Cantwell

Cantwell I agree with you it didn't get that way over night. But when you take a coaching job you also assume the responsibility for the results. I'm sorry I need to be accountable for my own job not Ron English's, Gilberts or Alexander's. They need to be held accountable for theirs. Unfortunately the name of the game in sports is wins. You win and you keep your job. Too many losses and you lose them. ADs who hire too many losing coaches lose their jobs. Fans, alums and regents judge ADs and coaches from their results. That isn't second guessing and it comes with being a coach. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

And as a note, Ron English was a talented assistant coach. But the EMU coaching ranks have been littered with former talented assistant coaches that didn't turn the program around or make the successful transition to a Div I coach.

Hm do people actually believe that EMU fans (the few of us left) should be happy with the results of this season and that players and coaching staff should be immune to criticism with a team that's winless and not drawing fans?

emu79-Right. I am not happy with the results we have seen so far. In fact I am as disappointed as anyone. I did expect some better results this season as I imagine we all did. I also believe greatly in accountability but I know that sometimes you have to take a step back before you can move forwards. Goodness knows we have taken a couple steps back. Coaches need to have a bit of time to show what they can do before we hold them completely accountable however. Let's see how the next FEW recruiting classes go before we bite heads off. Patience is a virtue and we seem to have a lot of virtue around here. I look forward to the day when we can all celebrate together and are able to say that we did not abandon the team in the lean years.

Proof that building a winning program out of a perennial loser takes time can be found when you look at Novak at NIU, Gill at Buffalo, and Harkema at EMU.

Buffalo Records:
2002 Jim Hofher 1-11
2003 Jim Hofher 1-11
2004 Jim Hofher 2-9
2005 Jim Hofher 1-10
2006 Turner Gill 2-10
2007 Turner Gill 5-7
2008 Turner Gill 8-6

NIU Record under Joe Novak:
1996 1-10
1997 0-11
1998 2-9
1999 5-6
2000 6-5
2001 6-5
2002 8-4

EMU record under Harkema:
1983 1-10
1984 0-9-2
1985 4-7
1986 6-5
1987 10-2

Cantwell, I haven't abandoned following EMU since I was a student in the mid 70s. And the lean years have far outweighed the good ones.
I love EMU as my school and I would like to see the sports programs succeed as much as EMU helped me succeed as a graduate. Its heartbreaking seeing the lack of interest by EMU students. Yes I expected more from Ron English and staff and our players this year.
Actually a key point was the Army game, yep almost 15,000 there hoping to see a new era in EMU football and many of us wanting to believe in English. Yep the stage was set and we lost and its been downhill since then.

Nickle, you are dead on right.

Here is the Kirk Ferentz's first year at Iowa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Ferentz

I do not know against whom the one win was, but was NOT a conference win and could have been a dog.

Actually his record was a linear progression from 1 to 3 to 7 to 11 wins (at 11 wins there is only one way to go and that is downward).

Surprising how many good coaches have terrrible first years.

Sometimes, as Nickle did, it is good to study history.

Each case study on turnarounds would be unique to that program so I would be careful drawing conclusions about the EMU program. Some of the turnarounds mentioned have better facilities than EMU, more attendance and community support than EMU, better alum funding than EMU. Turner Gill isn't having a great 2009. Wasn't Novak fired?

In fact what makes EMU unique is the number of assistant coaches from major programs who tried to turn around the program and have yet to succeed.

EMU 79, If the sky were blue you'd say it were green, the glass is always half empty, check that, completely empty, if anybody brings up a stat...those stats are biased or opinionated. If you were dating Megan Fox, she'd be too pretty! How do you manage to get through the day, with all that negativity? By the way Novak retired. and I believe this was you that said and I quote:
"In what area or areas has this team improved under English and his staff? I don't care about LEDs, bubbles, attendance and sound systems tell me how the program and team has improved under English this year."-EMU 79 in CMU Game thread
yet above you say "Some of the turnarounds mentioned have better facilities than EMU, more attendance and community support than EMU, better alum funding than EMU."
sounds a little contradictory to me? sounds like that is exactly what English is doing in year one, Bubble, Team Room, LED Scoreboard, Alum Fundraising.
just sounds like we lack the support, maybe its because if you won the daily lotto you wouldn't be happy because you didn't win the Mega Millions!

Well Lady Eagle, if my facts are wrong correct me. I asked a question about Novak, but I'm sure you know the difference between a statement and a question as you do an opinion from a fact. Actually Novak "retired" after a 2-10 season the worst in his 12 year NIU career. What is often rebuilt doesn't always stay that way. But I will except this from a prior posting:

Do you think the players and coaches should be immune from criticism based on the season we're having?

The scoreboard, LED are not a result of English personally That's an administation decision made by the Regents and a promise Gragg made to him when he took the job. I believe English is getting paid almost double over the previous coach and is now getting support from the administration that previous EMU coaches wished they had. There are other voices at EMU asking why we are sinking more money and going into debt for the program (see Eastern Echo). The fact is we are 0-7 and attendance is below last year's dismal pace.

I'm sorry the reality of EMU football currently isn't to your liking. It certainly isn't to me. I've been very consistent about voicing that and my concerns about the current state of the program. Hopefully that will change.

Making personal comments directed to me isn't likely to change EMU football program or make it better. Maybe you can also go to ESPN Bottom 10, other opponent's message boards, the Echo and M-Live and attack them for their negativity about EMU football.