(09-20-2009 05:03 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Memphis and ECU, UCF are all excellent universities! The real question is, who could we get for the fourth team.

I've never said Memphis, UCF, or ECU aren't fine universities. That's not the issue, which is whether they should be admitted to the Big East.

A new BE member should improve two things about our conference: Money, and prestige. No one had been able to show that ANY of those schools would improve even ONE of those two things, much less both.

That's the bottom line, and USF's history as a C-USA school has nothing to do with it.

I understand but PSU, Notre Dame, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Boston College, or Miami of Florida are not walking through the Big East door ever! So who the hell is left? Just curious.

(09-20-2009 05:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 05:03 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Memphis and ECU, UCF are all excellent universities! The real question is, who could we get for the fourth team.

I've never said Memphis, UCF, or ECU aren't fine universities. That's not the issue, which is whether they should be admitted to the Big East.

A new BE member should improve two things about our conference: Money, and prestige. No one had been able to show that ANY of those schools would improve even ONE of those two things, much less both.

That's the bottom line, and USF's history as a C-USA school has nothing to do with it.

I think what some others have been trying to say is that criteria above is not there (i.e. any and all teams above are either in a BCS Conf already earning more $$$$ and/or are named Notre Dame).

Believe some see that giving another University the chance to grow/expand with a BCS bid (just like USF and Cinci) can make the Big East stronger in the future...and provide a much more stable environment...as a conf with just 8 teams is tittering on the edge of instability (i.e. if 1 or 2 teams ever left).

Since any school will be most likely given 2 recruiting seasons under their belt prior to their first ever Big East Conf Game (just like USF, Cinci and UL did), those schools will most likely be "improved" by the time their first game is every played...and on the way to improving for the future.

Highly doubt any expansion candidate will come from the Top 5-10 in the nation...but with 2 years of recruiting...BCS "label" helping them on all fronts...future members could easily turn out to be successful...just like USF, Cinci, UCONN have done through the last few years...which would probably bring in more $$$$ to the Conf...and also help make the conf more stable.

(09-20-2009 05:37 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  I'm not nearly as impressed with UCF as a lot of people seem to be, and I wonder if Big East officials feel the same way. USF doesn't need a traveling partner. If you add a Memphis and a ECU, then they would help bridge the geographical gap between USF and the rest of the conference. If a traveling partner were important then Miami would have pushed heavily for a USF or UCF while they were in the conference.

Well... considering how tight money is at most of the schools in the conference, you may be surprised. Anybody who gets added must not add significantly to the current travel costs (save possibly football). The non-revenue sports already are being cut at many schools (including UC), hence a trip to UCF is not a budget killer since you are already at USF. Adds 1 day and a couple thousand dollars. A trip to Memphis is probably a flight from Cincinnati, and you can't easily bus to it from UC or UL (for the rest of the conference).

I guess in East Carolina's case I just want us to be viewed what our potential is with BCS access. With a large enrollment, soldout stadium, good and expanding facilities I honestly think sky is the limit for our program.

Look at that UNC game yesterday. Many of their highly touted recruits come from Eastern NC. I'll use my high school as an example. New Bern High School is approx 50 miles SE of Greenville and one of the premier programs in the state. We have had multiple D-1 players from there over the years including 4 or 5 on our roster at one time recently. However a **** LB comes up like UNC player Kevin Reddick and he won't even visit ECU despite all of his teamates playing here.

Now maybe Big East membership wouldn't land all of these guys, but my guess is we would begin to get our share. The bulk of the talent in NC over the years has come from east of I-95 and much of it within an hour radius of Greenville.

We need the Big East help and I assure you the league wouldn't regret it. If you want to stick a thorn in the ACC's side, pick ECU because they would absolutely go into panic mode in this state.

Right now we're getting mostly off the radar players. Rarely are players even choosing us over WF and Duke.......and why, it's all the lure of the ACC.

The fact of the matter is that Memphis is equal to or better than MOST Big East schools when it comes to those factors that one would use to measure the overall value of an athletics program. Stack Memphis up agains the entire Big East when it comes to those factors and you'll see that Memphis would be above average and closer to the top of the Big East.

The one glaring exception is long term football success. That being said, Memphis has been to bowl games something like five of the last six seasons. The Memphis football program circa 2009 is remarkably similar to the UC football program circa 2003.

Memphis doesn't bring football credibilty like a school as successful as Boise State would bring to a conference. However, Memphis is fortunate enough to have a lot of other advantages.

(09-20-2009 06:31 PM)oasispirate Wrote:  I guess in East Carolina's case I just want us to be viewed what our potential is with BCS access. With a large enrollment, soldout stadium, good and expanding facilities I honestly think sky is the limit for our program.

Look at that UNC game yesterday. Many of their highly touted recruits come from Eastern NC. I'll use my high school as an example. New Bern High School is approx 50 miles SE of Greenville and one of the premier programs in the state. We have had multiple D-1 players from there over the years including 4 or 5 on our roster at one time recently. However a **** LB comes up like UNC player Kevin Reddick and he won't even visit ECU despite all of his teamates playing here.

Now maybe Big East membership wouldn't land all of these guys, but my guess is we would begin to get our share. The bulk of the talent in NC over the years has come from east of I-95 and much of it within an hour radius of Greenville.

We need the Big East help and I assure you the league wouldn't regret it. If you want to stick a thorn in the ACC's side, pick ECU because they would absolutely go into panic mode in this state.

Right now we're getting mostly off the radar players. Rarely are players even choosing us over WF and Duke.......and why, it's all the lure of the ACC.

This is the issue I have with ECU fans. Big East expansion won't be about what will be good for or help an ECU or whomever, it will be about what that program can do for the Big East. People just don't seem to understand this.

I just want to know what exactly the setup is going to be, to have a true opinion. If it is a FB only, even for a few years, I would be annoyed as a fan if it were Memphis. You don't leave a program like their basketball on the sidelines and let them make money for some other conference. It would be a poor choice from a business perspective. Nothing is guaranteed (as far as program success is concerned) and having instant gratification by securing new TV deals for basketball should be the top priority if Memphis comes.

(09-20-2009 07:39 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 06:31 PM)oasispirate Wrote:  I guess in East Carolina's case I just want us to be viewed what our potential is with BCS access. With a large enrollment, soldout stadium, good and expanding facilities I honestly think sky is the limit for our program.

Look at that UNC game yesterday. Many of their highly touted recruits come from Eastern NC. I'll use my high school as an example. New Bern High School is approx 50 miles SE of Greenville and one of the premier programs in the state. We have had multiple D-1 players from there over the years including 4 or 5 on our roster at one time recently. However a **** LB comes up like UNC player Kevin Reddick and he won't even visit ECU despite all of his teamates playing here.

Now maybe Big East membership wouldn't land all of these guys, but my guess is we would begin to get our share. The bulk of the talent in NC over the years has come from east of I-95 and much of it within an hour radius of Greenville.

We need the Big East help and I assure you the league wouldn't regret it. If you want to stick a thorn in the ACC's side, pick ECU because they would absolutely go into panic mode in this state.

Right now we're getting mostly off the radar players. Rarely are players even choosing us over WF and Duke.......and why, it's all the lure of the ACC.

This is the issue I have with ECU fans. Big East expansion won't be about what will be good for or help an ECU or whomever, it will be about what that program can do for the Big East. People just don't seem to understand this.

What you will add is arguably the 2nd or 3rd most passionate fanbase in the entire league. Also a presence in the midatlantic area which is lacking at this point.

Here is the thing. I have nothing against UCF or Memphis and I would like to join the BE with them.

However it seems to me when people are analyzing other schools they are looking at their potential. Where as ECU is almost percieved as peaked.

(09-20-2009 05:52 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I understand but PSU, Notre Dame, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Boston College, or Miami of Florida are not walking through the Big East door ever! So who the hell is left? Just curious.

As others have noted, it's not 2004. We aren't desperate to expand at any cost.

For once, i agreed with Tranghese - we shouldn't expand unless we get the RIGHT partner. Better to stay with our current membership than to expand with schools that don't contribute what we need.

(09-20-2009 08:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 05:52 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I understand but PSU, Notre Dame, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Boston College, or Miami of Florida are not walking through the Big East door ever! So who the hell is left? Just curious.

As others have noted, it's not 2004. We aren't desperate to expand at any cost.

For once, i agreed with Tranghese - we shouldn't expand unless we get the RIGHT partner. Better to stay with our current membership than to expand with schools that don't contribute what we need.

I think everybody would agree with that. The rub is that not everyone agrees on what the Big East needs.

(09-20-2009 05:58 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  .... .but with 2 years of recruiting...BCS "label" helping them on all fronts...future members could easily turn out to be successful...just like USF, Cinci, UCONN have done through the last few years...which would probably bring in more $$$$ to the Conf...and also help make the conf more stable.

I think 8 is a good number, not inherently unstable. The Big 8 and Pac 8 did just fine with ... 8.

I understand that the only programs likely to meet my standard are programs not likely to want to join the Big East. But i don't see us as desperate enough for a 9th team to lower those standards.

(09-20-2009 08:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 05:52 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I understand but PSU, Notre Dame, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Boston College, or Miami of Florida are not walking through the Big East door ever! So who the hell is left? Just curious.

As others have noted, it's not 2004. We aren't desperate to expand at any cost.

For once, i agreed with Tranghese - we shouldn't expand unless we get the RIGHT partner. Better to stay with our current membership than to expand with schools that don't contribute what we need.

Right....it's not like ESPN is chomping at the bit to air a Rutgers-Memphis or UConn-East Carolina football game. There's no rush...if a team proves itself worthy to join it has opportunties to rise to the level. None of the candidates have done so yet.

(09-20-2009 08:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 05:58 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  .... .but with 2 years of recruiting...BCS "label" helping them on all fronts...future members could easily turn out to be successful...just like USF, Cinci, UCONN have done through the last few years...which would probably bring in more $$$$ to the Conf...and also help make the conf more stable.

I think 8 is a good number, not inherently unstable. The Big 8 and Pac 8 did just fine with ... 8.

I understand that the only programs likely to meet my standard are programs not likely to want to join the Big East. But i don't see us as desperate enough for a 9th team to lower those standards.

What exactly to you mean by lowering standars? Are you talking strictly about football success?

(09-20-2009 08:30 PM)3601 Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 08:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 05:58 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  .... .but with 2 years of recruiting...BCS "label" helping them on all fronts...future members could easily turn out to be successful...just like USF, Cinci, UCONN have done through the last few years...which would probably bring in more $$$$ to the Conf...and also help make the conf more stable.

I think 8 is a good number, not inherently unstable. The Big 8 and Pac 8 did just fine with ... 8.

I understand that the only programs likely to meet my standard are programs not likely to want to join the Big East. But i don't see us as desperate enough for a 9th team to lower those standards.

What exactly to you mean by lowering standars? Are you talking strictly about football success?

memphis is not going to add value imediately to beast fb.
we don't know what will happen if they are invited in.

(09-20-2009 08:30 PM)3601 Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 08:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 05:58 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  .... .but with 2 years of recruiting...BCS "label" helping them on all fronts...future members could easily turn out to be successful...just like USF, Cinci, UCONN have done through the last few years...which would probably bring in more $$$$ to the Conf...and also help make the conf more stable.

I think 8 is a good number, not inherently unstable. The Big 8 and Pac 8 did just fine with ... 8.

I understand that the only programs likely to meet my standard are programs not likely to want to join the Big East. But i don't see us as desperate enough for a 9th team to lower those standards.

What exactly to you mean by lowering standars? Are you talking strictly about football success?

By "standards" i mean the criteria for membership i described earlier: improve our revenue and our prestige.

(09-20-2009 05:42 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 04:27 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I find it ironic that some of the biggest critics of The Big East adding Memphis or ECU are fans of programs that were in the same conference with the Tigers and Pirates just a few short years ago. Talk about forgetting where you came from.

I can understand fans of other conferences being against Big East expansion. Those so-called fans don't want to see The Big East do anything to strengthen itself. I can also understand the fans of other CUSA programs, not being mentioned as expansion targets, being negative about Big East expansion. They don't want to be left behind with little to no prospect of ever joining a BCS conference. I can even understand the posteers on this board this just like to stir the sh*t by claiming to be the fan of a particuleer Big East program so they can speak nothing but negative about eveerything. (That posteer can kiss my RED and BLACK ass.)

The one thing I can't understand is how a fan of the LAST program invited to join The Big East. A program that won the geographical lottery to get in, can have a fan that can be negative about anybody. No offense to the majority of USF fans that post here that are awesome fans but this comment is for one particular poster:
Here's a pat on your little empty noggin. You need to STFD and STFU and be happy you have a seat at the big boys table here in The Big East.
Sorry about the rant but some of the narrow-minded bullsh*t here needs to stop
CJ

I agreed with everything you said until the last part. The part that they don't have a voice because they should be "happy" to be here.

Yes, very arrogant of him.

Hey, Temple did almost as well against Penn State as Syracuse! They would be the best option as far as travel.

Memphis has more history with Southern Miss and Arkansas State than they do with Cincinnati, it's not even close. Memphis is a southern city and a southern school. Deep South, if you will; it's almost Arkansas. I just don't see a natural rivalry between the State University of NJ, the University of Connecticut, or a private school in upstate New York with a school so far south. At least Kentucky's a border state! We know why SFLA was added, but that's a different story.

(09-20-2009 09:29 PM)esayem Wrote:  Memphis has more history with Southern Miss and Arkansas State than they do with Cincinnati, it's not even close. Memphis is a southern city and a southern school. Deep South, if you will; it's almost Arkansas.

Yes, Memphis has no cultural affinity with any existing Big East schools. It is a deep-south, magnolias, delta blues, and mud-pies culture.

Nothing wrong with that, it just isn't Big East culture.

(09-20-2009 09:45 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-20-2009 09:29 PM)esayem Wrote:  Memphis has more history with Southern Miss and Arkansas State than they do with Cincinnati, it's not even close. Memphis is a southern city and a southern school. Deep South, if you will; it's almost Arkansas.

Yes, Memphis has no cultural affinity with any existing Big East schools. It is a deep-south, magnolias, delta blues, and mud-pies culture.

Nothing wrong with that, it just isn't Big East culture.

You have got to be kidding me, Memphis has a deep sports rivalry with 2 of the existing BIG EAST schools and there is no denying that. BTW, I am not a Memphis supporter but to deny that Memphis doesn't have ties with some of the current BIG EAST schools is riduculous.