(09-15-2009 11:25 AM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  There's money out there. Cincinnati isn't a one pony town. On the info I found, Cincinnati has 9 Fortune 500 companies and 16 Fortune 1000 companies.

Shoemaker can become 5/3 but Nippert can't become Proctor and Gamble Stadium? How about the beautiful new practice facilities at the Kroger Pavilion? Private boxes make a pretty penny...when you have a stadium that features them.

There's ways to make money. Unfortunately, the only way their aware of is raising ticket prices.

Recently, UC was already given 5 million from P&G to promise that they will never change the name from James Gamble Nippert Stadium.

(09-15-2009 11:27 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  $$ is just not there for expansion. If someone can figure out a way to come up with $100 million (Rutger's similar expansion cost) in the next year, I'm all ears. Can't come from the Billion dollar capital fund drive currently underway, either.

I thought when they started talking Nippert expansion that the money could come from the capital fund drive. Was that erroneous or has something changed?

If it cant come from that, then I dont see where Nippert can ever get renovated. If they cant raise $8 or 10 million or whatever price tag was on the bubble, then how in the hell will they raise $100 million or whatever it will take to increase capacity at Nippert. I understand they talk of selling luxury boxes, but if they have 25 suites at $50k per year thats only a million a year in revenue and if you include extra revenue from seating increase too, I dont see how you come up with a return to justify the cost of expansion.

I understand the economy and all, but what the hell did we get in the big east for if the university isnt committed to competing.

So net-net....enjoy this year, root against Notre Dame so we can see BK on TV every week starting next year, and start shopping UC to the freaking MAC.

Might as well just give in and become a buckeye or irish fan....or michigan. Im disgusted that all the talk appears to have been all a bunch of big-winded talk.

Well that was a genius move. $5 million = NEVER?!?!?!

It's a moot point anyway. Shoemaker is still Shoemaker, it's just Shoemaker Center at 5/3 Arena. How about Coca-Cola Field (example) at Nippert Stadium?

(09-15-2009 12:28 PM)50Cent Wrote:  I thought when they started talking Nippert expansion that the money could come from the capital fund drive. Was that erroneous or has something changed?

I believe stadium expansion can come from that. We are more than halfway to the $1 billion goal after only about a year.

I want to know ASAP how much money is still required to be raised and by what date so that I can provide some funds for this specific purpose. I sure hope that this isn't the case, but if Coach Kelly is already paving his exit because the university cannot or will not be able to take that next step with regard to facility improvements then I don't necessarily want to give money if UC isn't truly serious here. So somebody from the university needs to provide enough information so that alumni, fans, maybe corporate sponsors etc. can do whatever is possible. If BK bolts after a public and concerted grassroots effort by UC supporters to achieve whatever is possible then so be it, but anything short of that is not acceptable.

Well if we're half way there after about a year, we should hopefully be fine. Hopefully more success and winning will bring in more corporate dollars to the project. I just worry with BK's constant mentioning of the project whether or not he believes it's going to happen. He knows what's going on more than any of us, and he seems to be pounding the subject for a reason. It seems like if he thought for sure it was happening, he'd talk about the benefits of it once it was here over talking about how badly it needs to happen.

(09-15-2009 11:44 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  UC recently finished the Care/Crawley building for about $205,000,000. This is a 240,000 sq. ft. building so the cost per sq. ft. was
$835. That number just amazes me. The new Great American skyscraper that is under construction is going to cost $300 plus per sq. ft.
Universities over spend so much on highly user specific buildings and never figure out that in 10-15 years the space design could be obsolete.
They also design buildings that do not have much usable space. It is really frustrating and it needs to change.

It is VERY easy to spend when a big chunk of the money comes from the taxpayers and you aren't held accountable for performance.

(09-15-2009 11:44 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  UC recently finished the Care/Crawley building for about $205,000,000. This is a 240,000 sq. ft. building so the cost per sq. ft. was
$835. That number just amazes me. The new Great American skyscraper that is under construction is going to cost $300 plus per sq. ft.
Universities over spend so much on highly user specific buildings and never figure out that in 10-15 years the space design could be obsolete.
They also design buildings that do not have much usable space. It is really frustrating and it needs to change.

No doubt. UC has always overspent on buildings like these. It probably will never cease, then they turn around and have no money to support the athletic programs.

(09-15-2009 11:21 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  We do need to get practice fields finished. Actually I do not think the Notre Dame job is going to open up after this season. Even though the Irish lost this weekend, I believe they are going to win at least 8 or 9 games this season. Which would put them in the Cotton, Gator, or the BCS. As long as Notre Dame is playing in either a BCS or high profile Janaury bowl game thier coach isn't going anywhere. Actually even if BK wanted to leave UC, there are only a handful of jobs out there that are better than the current situation. I do not see USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, or Alabama opening up very soon. People might bash the Big East, but there is no conference in the country that gives a coach an easier road to the BCS. All you have to do is look U of L from a few years back, UC, and WVU to realize this. I wouldn't be shocked to see UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, USF, or Syracuse make sometime in the next fives years. Can anyone say that about the other BCS leagues.

I completely agree. But the more I read about BK I start to think that he doesn't care at all about an easy path to a championship. Reason being is that he believes he can do it anywhere. So if he goes to a bigger conference, where he has the facilities, he can make it to BCS games despite stiffer competition.

(09-15-2009 12:53 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(09-15-2009 11:44 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  UC recently finished the Care/Crawley building for about $205,000,000. This is a 240,000 sq. ft. building so the cost per sq. ft. was
$835. That number just amazes me. The new Great American skyscraper that is under construction is going to cost $300 plus per sq. ft.
Universities over spend so much on highly user specific buildings and never figure out that in 10-15 years the space design could be obsolete.
They also design buildings that do not have much usable space. It is really frustrating and it needs to change.

No doubt. UC has always overspent on buildings like these. It probably will never cease, then they turn around and have no money to support the athletic programs.

Up to this point has there really been a reason to. In the end we are still talking about a team that has had 2 (going on 3) years of quality high level football. The Lindner Center is basically sitting in the way of any major room to expand and the city still supports OSU. The remainder of this season will tell the tale I think. UL, WVU and ILL will all be sell outs...question is will there be 5-6k visiting fans to get it there...honestly as much I hate to admit it, YES...because UC fans will wait until the last minute to "make sure this team is for real" before buying a ticket and by then they are gone to WVU fan or UL fan or ILL fan. Will be interesting to see the attendance to UCONN and Fresno State, I actually would be surprised to see either sell out as much as I hate to say it.

We are running into the same situation Xavier runs into with basketball...this is a Bearcat Basketball town...Xavier could go to the Final Four and the same 20,000 people that care today would be the same 20,000 that would care then. This is a UC Basketball town. Well boys this is a Ohio State football town, and its very very obvious that we just won the Big East and not that many more people care this year than last year. It is going to take years for that to start to change...now it can be done and I believe will be done. But we are at base camp trying to climb Everest...we have started up but are a long way from the top.

Think about the obstacles:

Bengals
OSU Fanbase
UK Fanbase
UL Fanbase
Small Stadium
Dated Stadium
Limited Tailgate space
No practice Facility
Somewhat supportive media
Seemingly non lucrative alumni base (which is surprising to me)
National Perception of BE and UC
Coach always on the edge of leaving

This sounds like Im knocking the program there are a lot of positives and this program is light years ahead of where it was 5 years ago...but still a long way off and frankly somewhat unrealistic to expect it to happen over night.

Big time programs face NONE or very few of these. Even if we had $50million to redo stadium I dont know that 15k more people would even show up. Not to mention you cant put 10lbs of **** in a 5lb sack...where is the room to build anything down there? And listen this is coming from a guy who hasnt missed a home game in 9 years since I was a freshman. I am about as loyal and supportive as it gets. But I have also seen the patterns over that 9 years. We have had some good teams, great games but we are many good seasons away from having a strong fan base. An honest assessment is we have maybe 15k people who are there rain or shine...the rest are simply people who love college football or who could take it or leave it...compare that to OSU who has in upper hundreds of thousands of people who would be there rain or shine if tickets where actually available, which as we know, they arent.

BK is the son of a politician and a student of politics. He knows he has the bully pulpit right now as his team is winning. He's simply using it to leverage his current position of negotiating strength to make it known to the new president that the football team needs some attention from the university to get to the next level. This stance gets the alumni all riled up and worried about losing him to another school and the alumni in turn pressure the president to do something about it (and they donate too when asked).

Nice to have a very savvy coach both in football and in university politics.

I agree with a lot of what you said, other than 2 things:

1) I don't think we're at the bottom of that mountain any longer. We're more like half way up, with the universities support needed to make it all the way.

2) Is this really an O$U town? I obviously live in Delhi, so maybe it's a little different the further north you get (West Chester, Mason, etc), but I don't know anyone who follows O$U. No one I live near, no one I work with, none of my friends, NO ONE.

*EDIT: I take that back...I do work with 1 O$U fan...but that's it.

If they did a major stadium expansion donor campaign while the team is this hot, I bet they could get 100 million.

(09-15-2009 01:22 PM)AZBCAT Wrote:  This stance gets the alumni all riled up and worried about losing him to another school and the alumni in turn pressure the president to do something about it (and they donate too when asked).

He's really misread his hand if he thinks this university gives a damn who the alumni and fan base want as their coach.

(09-15-2009 01:26 PM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  I agree with a lot of what you said, other than 2 things:

1) I don't think we're at the bottom of that mountain any longer. We're more like half way up, with the universities support needed to make it all the way.

2) Is this really an O$U town? I obviously live in Delhi, so maybe it's a little different the further north you get (West Chester, Mason, etc), but I don't know anyone who follows O$U. No one I live near, no one I work with, none of my friends, NO ONE.

*EDIT: I take that back...I do work with 1 O$U fan...but that's it.

1) Could be true...but we are climbing and not near top

2) Yea WC and Mason are big time OSU...you have to think that Delhi is a very small part of town...I would say its 70/30 in favor of OSU.

(09-15-2009 01:28 PM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  

(09-15-2009 01:22 PM)AZBCAT Wrote:  This stance gets the alumni all riled up and worried about losing him to another school and the alumni in turn pressure the president to do something about it (and they donate too when asked).

He's really misread his hand if he thinks this university gives a damn who the alumni and fan base want as their coach.

Nevemind...I changed my mind on that one

(09-15-2009 01:30 PM)Gary Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-15-2009 01:26 PM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  I agree with a lot of what you said, other than 2 things:

1) I don't think we're at the bottom of that mountain any longer. We're more like half way up, with the universities support needed to make it all the way.

2) Is this really an O$U town? I obviously live in Delhi, so maybe it's a little different the further north you get (West Chester, Mason, etc), but I don't know anyone who follows O$U. No one I live near, no one I work with, none of my friends, NO ONE.

*EDIT: I take that back...I do work with 1 O$U fan...but that's it.

1) Could be true...but we are climbing and not near top

2) Yea WC and Mason are big time OSU...you have to think that Delhi is a very small part of town...I would say its 70/30 in favor of OSU.

The only part of Greater Cincy that has a good portion of OSU fans is W. Chester/Mason. This is much more a UC town. I rarely saw any OSU decals or bumper stickers until after the 2002 season.

(09-15-2009 10:57 AM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  It's the fact UC doesn't consider itself big-time. I'm not talking $h!t about them...I hate it more than anyone.

UC wants to be a major program as long as it doesn't cost them anything. It's the reason we're the only BCS conference champion to accept a one and none game (with UT)...because they care more about the money than the implications...same with selling O$U back the home game. They should have told O$U Hell-NO and then ran them down as cowards nationally when they backed out...but why do that...there's a payday waiting in Columbus.

At least I still have a feeling Kelly would like to stay. If he didn't really want to stay, he wouldn't care what the facilities were like...he'd just figure "I only have to put up with it for another year or two and I'm gone anyway". The fact he keeps calling for the improvements is almost like a ransom...but in a good way. He's giving them a chance...you want to keep me...this is what it will take. He could just leave, but he's giving UC a chance. I'll always thank him for that after UC drops the ball, he leaves, and everyone on these boards run him down.

We have our chance to be a big-time college football program right now. It won't be Kelly's fault if it doesn't happen...he's trying everything he can to make it happen. The only question is will the university let it happen?

Very good post.

I also do not belive OSU fans in the area are holding us back - it's more the Bengal and Reds fans that are an issue. They only have so much money to spend.

(09-15-2009 01:37 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(09-15-2009 01:30 PM)Gary Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-15-2009 01:26 PM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  I agree with a lot of what you said, other than 2 things:

1) I don't think we're at the bottom of that mountain any longer. We're more like half way up, with the universities support needed to make it all the way.

2) Is this really an O$U town? I obviously live in Delhi, so maybe it's a little different the further north you get (West Chester, Mason, etc), but I don't know anyone who follows O$U. No one I live near, no one I work with, none of my friends, NO ONE.

*EDIT: I take that back...I do work with 1 O$U fan...but that's it.

1) Could be true...but we are climbing and not near top

2) Yea WC and Mason are big time OSU...you have to think that Delhi is a very small part of town...I would say its 70/30 in favor of OSU.

The only part of Greater Cincy that has a good portion of OSU fans is W. Chester/Mason. This is much more a UC town. I rarely saw any OSU decals or bumper stickers until after the 2002 season.

Agree...in pre-Tressel days, it was fragmented...many bandwagoners have jumped on...

(09-15-2009 01:30 PM)Gary Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-15-2009 01:26 PM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  I agree with a lot of what you said, other than 2 things:

1) I don't think we're at the bottom of that mountain any longer. We're more like half way up, with the universities support needed to make it all the way.

2) Is this really an O$U town? I obviously live in Delhi, so maybe it's a little different the further north you get (West Chester, Mason, etc), but I don't know anyone who follows O$U. No one I live near, no one I work with, none of my friends, NO ONE.

*EDIT: I take that back...I do work with 1 O$U fan...but that's it.

1) Could be true...but we are climbing and not near top

2) Yea WC and Mason are big time OSU...you have to think that Delhi is a very small part of town...I would say its 70/30 in favor of OSU.

No way it is an OSU town.

I'll give you Mason and West Chester and Anderson. Thats it though. The problem is the media (unsurprisingly) has the mis-perception that there are a lot of OSU fans here. There aren't.

I've worked and coached football all over the city. Cincy is FAR from an OSU town. They have little pockets but there are many more UC, UK, and ND fans in Cincinnati compared to OSU.

In fact I'd say Michigan and Tennessee have somewhat comparable fan bases to OSU in the area.

What is holding back UC are the Bengals fans (Bengals fans are also holding their own franchise back) in this area and the media's obsession with the Bengals.