(06-18-2009 08:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  How about this for a theory?

All the controls are computer-controlled, to the extent that the computer can take the airplane away from the pilots. The first crash, at the Paris Air Show IIRC, came when the computer flew the plane into the ground and the pilots couldn't wrest control. What say you load a virus into the computer that starts messing with the controls, creating excessive torque and vibration, and twisting the thing apart.

This is still a theory that I think might be applicable to the American Airlines jet that went down in New York a little over a month after 9/11. That was attributed publicly to wingtip vortices, but I can say that I learned how to fly at a C-5 base, those puppies have about the most significant wingtip vortices of anything, and we had to learn to stay away from them. What happened to the flight isn't the way wind shear typically happens. I also have one piece of information that suggests very strongly to me that somebody, either with the feds or AA, suspected this as a possible cause.

What operating system is used on the computers that controll jets? And how would you get a virus onto it? Inside job?

(06-18-2009 09:27 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  What operating system is used on the computers that controll jets? And how would you get a virus onto it? Inside job?

One would think they're not on the internet. Allegedly, the US put viruses into printer equipment that went to Sadaam prior to the gulf war in 1990. Most likely, it's running embedded systems of some sort maybe an embedded linux or some variant. It's been many years since I worked in government contracting, though.

(06-18-2009 10:08 PM)I45owl Wrote:  One would think they're not on the internet. Allegedly, the US put viruses into printer equipment that went to Sadaam prior to the gulf war in 1990. Most likely, it's running embedded systems of some sort maybe an embedded linux or some variant. It's been many years since I worked in government contracting, though.

Yeah, sure. And you know this how? BTW, how in the hell do you put a virus on a printer when approximately 99% of'em have no OS? Hell, a firmware virus, also something that's rare with most, is almost non-existent.

(06-18-2009 10:17 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 10:08 PM)I45owl Wrote:  One would think they're not on the internet. Allegedly, the US put viruses into printer equipment that went to Sadaam prior to the gulf war in 1990. Most likely, it's running embedded systems of some sort maybe an embedded linux or some variant. It's been many years since I worked in government contracting, though.

Yeah, sure. And you know this how? BTW, how in the hell do you put a virus on a printer when approximately 99% of'em have no OS? Hell, a firmware virus, also something that's rare with most, is almost non-existent.

Reb, I remember hearing the same thing. Don't know if it's true, but I heard it. I guess it's possible since the printers are attached to the computer and if the computer is on the internet and we have the IP address of the computer we could get the printer to feedback something nasty. But then again......

(06-18-2009 06:49 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 01:31 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 12:36 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 12:28 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Oh my god! Oh my god! The plane was blown up by a terrorist! Oh my god! oh my god! They are going to kill us all. Oh my god! oh my god! THe muzzies did it! Kill 'em all!

Maybe they'll get you first.

Hey, come on. You know I am one of them. Why would they take me out-unless I am joining them.

****FBI-this is a long running joke between some southern rednecks and me. THis is not an admission of me being a terrorist. THank you.****

Joke? I don't remember any joke like this?

I guess my side was a joke. You idiots actually believe I am a terrorist.

(06-19-2009 03:01 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 06:49 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 01:31 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 12:36 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 12:28 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Oh my god! Oh my god! The plane was blown up by a terrorist! Oh my god! oh my god! They are going to kill us all. Oh my god! oh my god! THe muzzies did it! Kill 'em all!

Maybe they'll get you first.

Hey, come on. You know I am one of them. Why would they take me out-unless I am joining them.

****FBI-this is a long running joke between some southern rednecks and me. THis is not an admission of me being a terrorist. THank you.****

Joke? I don't remember any joke like this?

I guess my side was a joke. You idiots actually believe I am a terrorist.

Yeah.... "believe"...

(06-19-2009 03:01 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 06:49 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 01:31 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 12:36 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 12:28 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Oh my god! Oh my god! The plane was blown up by a terrorist! Oh my god! oh my god! They are going to kill us all. Oh my god! oh my god! THe muzzies did it! Kill 'em all!

Maybe they'll get you first.

Hey, come on. You know I am one of them. Why would they take me out-unless I am joining them.

****FBI-this is a long running joke between some southern rednecks and me. THis is not an admission of me being a terrorist. THank you.****

Joke? I don't remember any joke like this?

I guess my side was a joke. You idiots actually believe I am a terrorist.

No Roberta, We believe your a coward.

(06-18-2009 05:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Isn't Airbus subsidized by the French Government?

Yes.

I think maybe some other European countries also help with the subsidizing, but I am positive that the French Government does.

(06-19-2009 10:46 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 05:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Isn't Airbus subsidized by the French Government?

Yes.

I think maybe some other European countries also help with the subsidizing, but I am positive that the French Government does.

http://www.eads.com/1024/en/businet/businet.html

I never understood how the WTO could bash the US so much, for things like cotton and steel, yet this goes on.

I'm sure there's an explanation, but I don't get it.

(06-18-2009 10:17 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 10:08 PM)I45owl Wrote:  One would think they're not on the internet. Allegedly, the US put viruses into printer equipment that went to Sadaam prior to the gulf war in 1990. Most likely, it's running embedded systems of some sort maybe an embedded linux or some variant. It's been many years since I worked in government contracting, though.

Yeah, sure. And you know this how? BTW, how in the hell do you put a virus on a printer when approximately 99% of'em have no OS? Hell, a firmware virus, also something that's rare with most, is almost non-existent.

How do I know that it was alleged? Well, memory. Apparently, it originated as a hoax: http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/147

Granting that a network port on the printer gives the ability to either initiate a network attack or exploit a client connecting to the printer, I think you're right to have doubted this. I also question whether or not you could say that printers don't have an operating system or not. I don't know one way or the other, but you'd be surprised where you will find embedded operating systems. I would expect that most modern printers do run an operating system to queue jobs and provide management interfaces.

edit: I doubt this same thing was true 20 years ago, though.

(06-19-2009 10:46 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 05:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Isn't Airbus subsidized by the French Government?

Yes.

I think maybe some other European countries also help with the subsidizing, but I am positive that the French Government does.

I don't think that is the case as much as it used to be. Airbus was a French-English-German venture to begin with. Here's what wiki has to say:

Quote:Airbus is given reimbursable launch investment (RLI, called "launch aid" by the US) from European governments with the money being paid back with interest, plus indefinite royalties, but only if the aircraft is a commercial success.[37] Airbus contends that this system is fully compliant with the 1992 agreement and WTO rules. The agreement allows up to 33 per cent of the programme cost to be met through government loans which are to be fully repaid within 17 years with interest and royalties. These loans are held at a minimum interest rate equal to the cost of government borrowing plus 0.25%, which would be below market rates available to Airbus without government support.[37] Airbus claims that since the signature of the EU-U.S. Agreement in 1992, it has repaid European governments more than U.S.$6.7 billion and that this is 40% more than it has received.[37]

(06-19-2009 10:04 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(06-19-2009 03:01 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 06:49 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 01:31 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 12:36 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(06-18-2009 12:28 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Oh my god! Oh my god! The plane was blown up by a terrorist! Oh my god! oh my god! They are going to kill us all. Oh my god! oh my god! THe muzzies did it! Kill 'em all!

Maybe they'll get you first.

Hey, come on. You know I am one of them. Why would they take me out-unless I am joining them.

****FBI-this is a long running joke between some southern rednecks and me. THis is not an admission of me being a terrorist. THank you.****

Joke? I don't remember any joke like this?

I guess my side was a joke. You idiots actually believe I am a terrorist.

No Roberta, We believe your a coward.

You are the "Sum of all ********".

You do seem to be pre-occupied with "********". It's those Homosexual tendencies of yours bubbling to the surface again. Your cowardice is quite apparent to posters here. ITRW you are hiding under a desk.

(06-18-2009 05:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Isn't Airbus subsidized by the French Government?

So is the company that makes white flags.