And let us not forget the revenue stream that football brings in. If the Bucs could draw 6000 paying fans(doable I think) at $15 a ticket and at 6 home games that would produce about $540000. Also the 1A game is a big revenue producer, somewhere between 300K and 400K, I have been told. IF we take the 300K and add it to the 540 then that gives about $840000 without any fundraising or student fees. Now if the fans, alumni, businesses could raise 400K per year(like in 2007) then that would put it at about 1.2 million which is what we are told would support 1AA football at about the level we were playing. Just think what a minimal student fee of $25 would add. This is doable. The adminstration just has to show the leadership and allow it to be done.

(05-29-2009 06:33 AM)etsualumni00 Wrote:  And to the few who don't like talking about this, that's why we have threads, so people don't have to read what they're not interested in.

Touché, 00, touché.

My sentiments exactly.

And thanks, Doc, for the kind words (in my ratings area).

Some other revenue streams that were blown away. I don't know the actual tution but if anyone who knows a better number to use the correct my approx. numbers. Regardless the numbers producing numbers will be huge.

1. 50 - 60 football walk-ons that payed approx $7000 per year .... ...................approx ...$ 350,000 - $420,000.
2. Marching band........approx 130 students that payed approx $7000 per year....approx ...$ 910,000
3. Friends of the above who came to ETSU, such as girl friends and boyfriends, payed an unknown amount.......NA

Approx. loss revenue to ETSU

$1,126,000 - $1,330,000

This and the other football revenues already mentioned in previous post are the reasons why the other TBR universities and colleges in Tennessee have not dropped football. They don't close their eyes, they deal in facts.

Yes we would have been close or in the 'Black' but the adminstration would never use these numbers because these numbers would not support their backroom decisions. They did not care about facts, they just wanted rid of football.

00 is completely right, ETSU never conducted any type of fund raising for football. I dare anyone to produce any evidence that proves ETSU did a football only fundraiser before football was dropped. You can't because it never happened.

(05-29-2009 01:57 PM)bucten Wrote:  Some other revenue streams that were blown away. I don't know the actual tution but if anyone who knows a better number to use the correct my approx. numbers. Regardless the numbers producing numbers will be huge.

1. 50 - 60 football walk-ons that payed approx $7000 per year .... ...................approx ...$ 350,000 - $420,000.
2. Marching band........approx 130 students that payed approx $7000 per year....approx ...$ 910,000
3. Friends of the above who came to ETSU, such as girl friends and boyfriends, payed an unknown amount.......NA

Approx. loss revenue to ETSU

$1,126,000 - $1,330,000

This and the other football revenues already mentioned in previous post are the reasons why the other TBR universities and colleges in Tennessee have not dropped football. They don't close their eyes, they deal in facts.

Yes we would have been close or in the 'Black' but the adminstration would never use these numbers because these numbers would not support their backroom decisions. They did not care about facts, they just wanted rid of football.

00 is completely right, ETSU never conducted any type of fund raising for football. I dare anyone to produce any evidence that proves ETSU did a football only fundraiser before football was dropped. You can't because it never happened.

Ask the music faculty. The marching band was a disincentive for most serious music students. They aren't exactly clamoring to have it back. As to walk-ons and girlfriends...did etsu enrollment decline? Nope..in fact it has increased from dropping football. Using that logic dropping football resulted in an INCREASE in enrollment...proof being in the pudding. What about the scholarships pee'd away on little league players? That must be a savings. I'm not seeing any revenue stream that existed or that might exist to make football a going concern here.
You might want to look at two options. One is Division 3 or whatever they call it here...club football. ETSU could probably put something together there. There other is go all out for Division 1 ball and go into heavy fundraising. That isn't going to happen for one and only one reason. Most people aren't that interested to shell out the kind of money it would take. Football just doesn't make sense here.

(05-29-2009 02:56 PM)buckybuck Wrote:  One is Division 3 or whatever they call it here...

How many times do we have to clarify this issue...A college or University CANNOT play D2 or D3 NCAA football and play D1 in their other sports.

(05-29-2009 10:19 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(05-29-2009 02:56 PM)buckybuck Wrote:  One is Division 3 or whatever they call it here...

How many times do we have to clarify this issue...A college or University CANNOT play D2 or D3 NCAA football and play D1 in their other sports.

About the same as the "enrollment increase" comment - you're comparing apples to oranges here. I seem to remember something about a lottery scholarship beginning about the time football was dropped. I'm sure that has nothing to do with any enrollment increase.

(05-27-2009 07:22 PM)GoBucsGo Wrote:  Stanton has always done his best to keep tuition & fees down, and has fought w/ other TBR presidents at TBR meetings at keeping that annual increase to a minimum.

Time to dispel another piece of misinformation and bring the facts to the table. The misinformation: Tennessee students already pay too much for their tuition.

First of all the tuition at ETSU is $5221 per year. Let's look at a few institutions folks would identify with. Eastern Kentucky University's tuition is $6312. UVa-Wise's tution is $6748. Radford University's tuition is $6546. For more apples to apples comparison, two schools that ETSU considers as peers are JMU and South Alabama. Tuition at JMU is $7244 per year, and at USA it is $5512.

For well prepared high school students entering ETSU, tuition is $5221 and the Lottery Scholarship is $4000. An incoming Freshman can go to ETSU for $1221 per year, less than the annual cost of a typical cell phone plan. You might cry FOUL and say "what about room and board?" A young adult must meet living expenses regardless of whether they choose to attend college or not.

You might also bring up the argument that ETSU's nontraditional students make it unique. JMU is a peer institutions; they have a significant population of nontraditionals.

It is peculiar that Tennesseans believe they are paying a high price for higher education. The facts just don't seem to support that argument. My belief is that Tennessee's higher education system would be better off if the costs to attend were more in line with the costs of other states. Infrastructure could be upgraded, co-curricular activities could be enhanced, etc.

do not be surprised to see belmont and possibly lipscomb in the ovc in the next two years. makes too much sense geographically. the only thing holding this up at this point is the belomont president. everyone else, and i mean everyone else at belmont is in favor of the move.

(05-19-2009 08:34 PM)Buc2002 Wrote:  As far as I know, there are no plans for ETSU to leave in the near future. So don't expect to see Belmont or anyone else heading out of the league. In fact, the coverage of our OVC chance last spring basically discussed the fact Stanton talked to officials at both Lipscomb and Belmont to get assurances they were staying. They were all in.

The only proof that you need that the A-Sun is fine? No one else in the league is leaving and there is absolutely no talk of it around the league.

On the by laws, yes the A-Sun meets the first one. And as for the first, I think the league would have a pretty good appeal considering both UNF and Kennesaw State will be ENTERING their seventh season at Division I in 20011-12. That is the first year Campbell will be gone.

Buc Doctor

Thank you for bringing some facts AND common sense to this discussion.

(05-30-2009 12:08 PM)JWBUC Wrote:  Buc Doctor

Thank you for bringing some facts AND common sense to this discussion.

And thank you for your kind words.

Yeah Doctor, and thanks for ignoring what I said and putting words in my mouth. What I said was 'Stanton always fights to keep tuition down.' Where did I say TN students pay too much for their education? Didn't say it and don't believe it. I just said that Stanton tries to keep the money that students pay to a minimum, which was his argument for having a student vote for football.

But, I will say what you bring up is a good point - we're cheaper than a lot of other universities similar to us in terms of tuition & fees, and no doubt that is partially due to keeping our student activities fee down, and those universities have football programs (except Radford and bringing Wise into the discussion doesn't fit). However, Stanton and other administrators will tell you we must keep tuition & fees as cheap as we can as we have a fundamentally different student body than a lot of other universities economically. I think our student body is probably pretty similar economically to Wise, Radford, & EKU of the examples you raised. However, of the other two you called 'apples to apples', only one of those is listed on the peer list of institutions I've seen, and that's South Alabama. Interestingly, their tuition is pretty close to ours, and they are a regional univ with a medical school (that's what part of that peer list is based on).

You can remain in the camp of 'just impose the student fee' but that will not work w/ this admin obviously, and I think it will be a tough sell for the next administration.

(05-31-2009 07:17 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote:  Yeah Doctor, and thanks for ignoring what I said and putting words in my mouth. What I said was 'Stanton always fights to keep tuition down.' Where did I say TN students pay too much for their education? Didn't say it and don't believe it. I just said that Stanton tries to keep the money that students pay to a minimum, which was his argument for having a student vote for football.

But, I will say what you bring up is a good point - we're cheaper than a lot of other universities similar to us in terms of tuition & fees, and no doubt that is partially due to keeping our student activities fee down, and those universities have football programs (except Radford and bringing Wise into the discussion doesn't fit). However, Stanton and other administrators will tell you we must keep tuition & fees as cheap as we can as we have a fundamentally different student body than a lot of other universities economically. I think our student body is probably pretty similar economically to Wise, Radford, & EKU of the examples you raised. However, of the other two you called 'apples to apples', only one of those is listed on the peer list of institutions I've seen, and that's South Alabama. Interestingly, their tuition is pretty close to ours, and they are a regional univ with a medical school (that's what part of that peer list is based on).

You can remain in the camp of 'just impose the student fee' but that will not work w/ this admin obviously, and I think it will be a tough sell for the next administration.

I brought Wise into the discussion because ETSU and Wise compete for students at in-state tuition rates in Virginia border counties. In that head to head competition, Wise is considerably more expensive than ETSU.

You are correct in that JMU once listed as a peer has been removed from the list. FYI EKU has been added Official List of ETSU's Peer Institutions

Others, if you are looking at peer tuition rates and not well versed in higher education, North Carolina Universities will have artificially low tutions because North Carolina legislators fund their Universities at very high rates.