(05-11-2009 06:10 AM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Actually, Stephens wasn't even listed as a point guard, he was a point forward.

He might not have been listed as one but from what I remember he played the PG position most of the time he was on the court.

(05-11-2009 07:28 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  Yeah.. why would you have Smith backup Jennings? He wasn't a PG. Sorry but when someone averages more Turnovers per game then assists for 3 of his 4 years with the program mentioning
him in the same breath as a guy who I believe is still in the top 5 Div I assists leaders is just silly.
I guess Smith would have to make an all time team but it sure wouldn't be as Jennings backup.

I agree you with Rod about Smith. The guy turned it over wayyyy too much for a PG. I like Timmy and I agree with you Gold that he played his heart out. At times he was a very exciting player to watch. I think he played harder than anyone on the court but he made a lot of bad decisions when he played, especially after Wadood and Fields left. I would still put Tim Smith on an all-time team but I would still have Stephens as the man backing up Mister too.

Tim Smith was a pure force of nature, at once as entertaining and as infuriating to watch as any player to come through Johnson City. Sure he was one dimensional. But what a dimension! For straight out speed and quickness and a non-stop motor that ran into the red for all 40 minutes of play over all 90 feet of floor, he was hard to beat. He was a thief and disrupter par excellence.

They talk about some players being “rhythm shooters” – well Tim was the opposite of that. His offensive game was built on the unique ability to shoot “out of rhythm”. You never knew when he was going to let the ball go: halfway up, a quarter of the way, maybe before he ever left the floor, the ball would come flying out at some odd angle, quick and accurate. Too quick to react to and block, even though the guy was only about 5’8”, and even though you knew exactly what was coming. You knew that he was going to line up to the right and drive left, just about every time, game after game, for four years. And he was still hard to stop. He had an equally unusual but effective no-rotation ‘shot put’ three point shot.

You can’t say he ever really developed. He came fully armed to ETSU, like Athena from the brow of Zeus. He didn’t improve radically from the arc like Kevin Tiggs, or develop an assortment of little shots like Mike Smith. What you saw was what you got, pretty much from day one.

When he was young and there were other strong, confident players like Zakee and Gerald Fields, it worked best. But in his junior and senior years, it too often got stagnant and predictable to the point of madness.

But for energy, effort, uniqueness and the havoc that he could wreak on a team like Cincinnati, leaving national announcers shaking their heads in amazement – you’ve got to give the guy his due. He give ETSU a lot of great nights.

Excellent reading.

Smith and Stephens both would definite be on my all time ETSU team.
Demeco Childress was another player that impressed me.

Zakee WADOOOOOOOD !!! Would be one of my starting 5. A great undersized post player.

All decades teams would be interesting to compile.

I'm a big fan of most of the people mentioned...but when we are talking about the starting five of all time ETSU greats....I don't see Wadood making that list. I don't see Childress making that team period. Wadood was great but he's not going to bench Calvin Talford. You could say well okay...Wadood as power forward and Talford at small forward. But I wouldn't start Wadood over Rodney English. I don't think anyone would argue Mister starts at the point guard spot. Shooting guard....Harley Swift? I never saw him play but the stories are legendary. Have we ever had a better center than Greg Dennis? Small forward....who could claim the top spot over Talford? True power forward? Neither English nor Wadood had the size for a true power forward yet they both played the position with deadly skill. Trazel Silvers had the size and talent to be considered...but I don't think you could put him over English. How does Wadood stack up against Troy Lee Michael? This is much tougher than it seems to be on the surface.

With only time for a little bit of thought...

Keith Mister Jennings
Harley Skeeter Swift
Calvin Talford
Rodney English
Greg Dennis

Timmy Smith
Courtney Pigram
Tom Chilton
Zakee Wadood
Gerald Fields (I'm drawing a blank on true centers)

My top five all-time ETSU bball are: Jennings, Chilton, Dennis, Talford and Swift. I guess that's a 3 guard line up. The second five would be: Tim Smith, Tiggs, Wadood, Mike Kretzer and Fields. I'd throw Winfred King in for size. Stephens, Mikell and English would be close.

I never saw Chilton, Swift or Kretzer play but have heard good things. I remember Scott Place from Roanoke being a reliable forward in the 70s and Kenny Reynolds scored a lot over two years but with poor teams. Childress had some great games when he was on but then there were the off nights.

It's an interesting line-up State. I was comparing English to Tiggs in my own head a minute ago...English got very close to a thousand points in his two years but never quite got over that hump. Tiggs did. However, my memory of both English and Tiggs gives English the slight edge. I'm not knocking Tiggs at all but English went up against much better athletes than did Tiggs. He was a better rebounder. These things are tough...fun...but tough.

At some point you gotta ask yourself....what would Jennings, Talford, and English had done to the A-sun?

Actually English and Tiggs were about the same size 6'4" and both very athletic. I remember English in the NCAA game vs. Iowa. He probably had a better junior year than Tiggs.

I am also thinking CP might should be on my all-time team or at least considered. I always thought he compared to Childress--you never knew what kind of game you were gonna get.

The Tony Patterson team should have had a lot players on the all time list....but unfortunately that didn't happen.


You're right about English's junior year. In fact....English and Niblet are the only two Juco's, that I know of, who came in and made a major impact right away. If anyone else knows of any I'd like to hear about it. Because I can't remember any other than those two.

As a relative newcomer, I can only speak about players from the last 7 years. I cannot add much to the analysis provided by swvabucs on Timmy, but I absolutely loved to watch him play. My feelings towards him were polarized, even within the same game: One minute I would be yelling at him in mind and the next I would be laughing at his dynamic moves! For me, I would take Timmy back in a HEARTBEAT, given the right team composition.

As for Wadood, he was a garbage man who was perhaps the greatest anticipator I ever seen in college basketball. How else does a 6'5" power forward lead the country in blocks and steals. He was such a lock down defender on the perimeter too.

I always believed that Tiras Wade had the potential to be a NBA player. He was a big time talent who, for reasons discussed ad nauseum, just couldn't put it all together. As a 6'7" shooting guard, he reminded me of Kevin Martin. Alas, we'll never know how good that kid could have been.

Let me add Tommy Woods and Greg Dennis...
As to what Greg, Alvin, Calvin, Major, Rodney and MIster and that crew would have done to the A Sun.. pretty much what they did to the SoCon.. 4 straight years to the Big dance..

68...I was hoping someone would cash in on that.

If you'll remember Mister only won the SoCon regular season one time. He won the tournament three years in a row...but my point is this. In my life time...the southern conference has NEVER been better, or as good, from top to bottom as it was during Mister's era. We were ranked in the top ten in the nation and we split the regular season title three ways with Chattanooga and Furman. Furman won the toin coss and the top seed in the SoCon touranment.

I don't think you would see that in the Atlantic Sun



P.S. I never saw Tommy Woods play...How good was he?

Faithful,

I was never impressed with tiras wade. there was something about him that I never liked. I can't even describe it. He just looked awkward to me. I never felt that he jived with ETSU. When he left....Timmy Smith took over and we never looked back.

However your opinions of him were correct...I can't remember where he ended up but he was VERY successful there. They went to the NCAA both of his years I believe and I think during his senior year they won a game or two. If I'm wrong on that I do know he was very succesful there and the team was a true threat.

Tirade went to Louisiana Lafayette.

Tommy could jump out of the Gym..led the nation in rebounding... He was, I believe ,the first Black basketball player at a mostly whiite school in the State of Tn..
If you can find a 1963 ETSU annual..take a look at the freshman basketball photo..all white guys with Tommy in the middle..all white varsity team..
He was from Alcoa.. recruited by almost every school in the big 10..
he wanted to stay close to home, but UT ( nor any SEC school) would touch him because of his color, so he came to Johnson City..
Not only a great athlete, but a great guy.. I know he had problems with the crowds on the road, but I am proud to say, never at home..
His senior night, Brooks Gym was packed and he got a standing O that went on for several minutes..
He blew out his knee and never got to play pro ball.. He went to work for the Louisville, Ky police department and spent his life working with
inter city kids...
The OVC led the way in the South in recruiting black athletes, and we
had some great basketball teams in the 60's and early 70's.. then the
other conferences in the South started recruiting black players..
We were several years ahead of the SEC., and Tommy was one of the first..think about the courage it took for him to do that, and you will get some idea of the kind of player he was..

It is true that Tiggs scored more then English (he just missed the 1000 point club with 998) But Tiggs had Pigram and Smith as fellow 1000 point scorers.
English had Dennis, Talford,Jennings,West, Geer and Silvers all members of the 1000 point club to share the ball with.

Like I said..based off memory, I'd have to give English the edge over both Tiggs and Wadood.

68...

Who was a better ball player...Tommy Woods or George Underwood? Both were way before my time.

Interesting comment about the OVC recruiting black players before the SEC did. That might help to explain why the OVC used to be a more formidable conference by comparison than they are now. Western Ky appeared to have more black athletes than KY did at that time from my recollection.