Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Thread Closed 
How a name defines a university & prevents growth
Author Message
UofL07 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,920
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 109
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #1
How a name defines a university & prevents growth
I thought this was an interesting post by FiniteMan about how names can affect public universities. What do you guys think?

http://collegesportsinfo.com/forum/viewt...?f=9&t=236

I was thinking about Universities renaming themselves and how it can open the door for improvements in their standing.

A number of larger universities have re-branded themselves in the last 20-30 years to very good effect. Memphis State became the University of Memphis. North Texas State University became the University of North Texas. Southwest Texas State became Texas State. Southwestern Missouri is now Missouri State. Southeastern Louisiana tried to become the university of Louisiana, but was thwarted by the State legislature.

I think naming is a way that a school can (relatively) quickly buck the system and change the impression, focus, and general direction of the University and affect positive change.

I know a lot of posters on this site ridiculed Missou State when they changed the name saying that no one would ever judge them beyond what they started out to be. I don't think this is the case. When you take into account that, including slackers, a university turns over it's enrollment ever 5 years or so, and that young people discover universities maybe 10 years before they go to college at most, Missou State will effectively be established as the "state" school in Missou by say 2012 or so, despite academics' protests. They have effectively leapfrogged UMKC and UMSTL --- former equivalent schools.

I do understand that technically a land grant flagship is almost always going to be a better school that some johnny come lately, because they are more established and have greater resources sunk into them over a long period of time, but by the same token there appears to be a pecking order based on names.

(In all of the examples below, "X" refers to the name of the state.)

1) Tier 1 - the "University of X" --- generally the best a state has to offer. Generally the flagship, although there are exceptions (Ohio State and LSU are flagships of their states and A&M shares the flagship designation in Texas.). Now to be clear of my point, officially, UT is the "University of Texas at Austin", but in practice anyone you mention the University of Texas to is not going to ask "Did you mean UT Austin or UT Dallas?" UT Austin owns the UT name --- UT Dallas, UTEP, UT- Arlington, UTSA and others just borrow it. They are just trying to soak up some of that good name to gain legitimacy. (I do recognize that all are in the UT system and that is the stated reason behind it's use. I just don't think that is the honest point of it in this day.)

2) Tier 2 - "X State University" --- in most states the largest State university is designated "X State". Sometimes their academics are just shy of the University school of the state. Sometimes thy are way off. There are exceptions. Some states have #2 public schools that are Techs or A&Ms (Georgia Tech, Louisiana Tech) instead of a well developed "X State" school.

3) Tier 3 - "X Tech" and "X A&M" schools --- this can be a real hit or miss category. A lot of states have tiny A&M schools or tech schools that would rank as a tier 7 school, but a well sized Tech or A&M gets pretty good attention.

4) Tier 4 - "(Major City) University" or "University of (Major City)" --- Large schools designed to serve a major metro area can differentiate themselves from smaller state schools by adopting the city name. Often they are referred to just by the city name. As I mentioned earlier, schools like Cinnci and Houston, have been joined by Memphis. This technique really only seems to have positive results when the city and university are large.

5) Tier 5 "North/South/West/East/Central X University" or "University of North/South/West/East/Central X" - Unidirectional Schools. I think these schools are on the rise in terms of esteem. I think we will soon see a day when lower tier 2, and all of larger Tier 4, and larger Tier 5 occupy effectively the same tier behind the flagships and really elite state, tech, & A&M schools. UNT, S. Illinois are good examples.

6) Tier 6 - "(Major City) State University" - This is a state University in a major city that refuses to escape from the shadow of the state school or is not legislatively allowed to do so.

7) Tier 7 - "NW/SE/NE/SW X University" or "University of NW/SE/NE/SW X" and "(Name) State University" and "(Minor City) State University" and "(Minor City/name/whatever) A&M University" and "University of X - (city)" - Almost all of these universities are small time. They are either designed to serve a very small region of a state or are trying to borrow legitimacy from a system of schools or a flagship. NW Louisiana. Sam Houston State University. West Texas A&M. UT-Tyler. UL-Monroe is technically not that, but might as well be.

I think it a name change on a small school is often like putting lipstick on a pig. It is still a pig.

But a name change on a larger school --- say 15K to 30K or more can dramatically affect a university, changing the long term direction of the university, the focus of student recruitment, and nationwide public perception.

When Texas State dropped the Bi-directional prefix from their name successfully, the size of the university and its political weight in the state started to become apparent. This will lead Texas State to be seen as a player in the state and become a recognized national name within a couple generations.

When UNT dropped the "state" from their name, I would argue they moved from one of an endless number of faceless state schools to the dominant public school for the North region.

When Memphis State dropped the state designation from their name, i would argue that they embraced the identity of the city like Houston rather than just being one of a million "(city) State" schools. It is a little like graduating from the need to have the state's state University system propping you up.

Utah Valley State College is smartly shortening their name when they become a full university this year. Utah Valley University is not a bad choice when you consider what is already taken. Shorter is usually better.

I think there are a number of schools that would profit from re-branding. Here are some I would argue in my region. many of these might get resistance from the state system, but some might not.

NW Louisiana and SE Louisiana --- these are both schools that might one day grow into FBS candidates. They would be smart to re-brand their schools now that SW and NE Louisiana have re-branded as ULL and ULM. They probably would not get resistance. The Universities of North Louisiana and South Louisiana would brand to appeal to the northern and southern halves of the state and both schools could see some quick growth and positive direction change from that re-branding.

Metropolitan University might strongly consider renaming itself as Denver Metropolitan University or Denver U. I think they hurt their enrollment and public perception by not cluing anyone in on where they are based. Not having Denver in the name would be especially unhelpful if they ever looked to do sports seriously.

UTEP and UTSA might seriously consider renaming their universities. It would be worth it to fight the system to allow them to drop UT from their names. UTEP could be Texas Western again or El Paso University. UTSA could be the San Antonio University. I think re-branding could really help underscore their similarities to Universities like Houston and Memphis --- or barring that UNT (I am only saying it would help.) and would also set them apart as major independent universities serving major cities and not the satellite university riff-raff.

UT-Arlington baffles me. They would be a 1000 times more successful and well known as Dallas/Forth Worth University (DFW U). I think most people in the Metroplex don't even know that they are by far the second largest university in the DFW Metroplex. They are an enormous university located halfway between Dallas and Fort Worth. At 25K or 26K, they are not far behind UNT in enrollment ---technically part of the metroplex, but to the north.

Sam Houston State University and Stephen F. Austin State University should Join Lamar in not having a "state" in their names. These are tribute schools that sound like independent elite liberal art schools. Putting "state" in their names, just lessens them to the level of the other small Texas satellite schools. That is hardly a tribute.

UALR might consider becoming Little Rock University. They would parallel Memphis well and the name change would amount to a big jump in the food change raising them above being an equal to UA-Fort Smith as a cookie cutter satellite of U. of Arkansas, for example.

Wichita State might chose Wichita University. Cleveland State might consider the University of Cleveland to parallel U of Cinnci. IUPUI would be smart to fight to be Indianapolis University.

Other universities?
04-10-2009 11:39 AM
Find all posts by this user
Advertisement


KnightLight Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 27,664
Joined: Sep 2003
Reputation: 700
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #2
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
UCF used to be called Florida Technological University when it first opened its doors in 1968 as it was mostly a Tech based school for NASA/Martin Marietta, etc...

Once the school started to expand and added many other programs...the State Legislature changed the name to UCF back in 1978.

In UCF's case...the name change really helped ALL the programs and the University go to unforeseen heights (5th largest school in the nation) vs just being for their Engineering programs if they kept the "Technological" name.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 11:49 AM by KnightLight.)
04-10-2009 11:46 AM
Find all posts by this user
PGPirate Offline
Regulator
*

Posts: 10,574
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 262
I Root For: East Carolina
Location:
Post: #3
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
I don't see East Carolina changing their name. Since we were chartered, East has been in the name. My school serves Eastern NC. But we have done well. 3rd largest enrollment, Top 15 medical school, top education/nursing/allied health etc etc
04-10-2009 11:53 AM
Find all posts by this user
EvilVodka1 Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 335
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation: -6
I Root For: FSUfan/LSUalum
Location:
Post: #4
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
Where do Boise State and Fresno State fit in all of this?
04-10-2009 11:55 AM
Find all posts by this user
Cubanbull Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,617
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 392
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #5
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
I dont ever see USF ever changing its name there would be major uproar from its alumni. At the time the school was named we were the state's furthest south university and thus the name. We have grown to be among the top 50 public research universities in nation and with over 40k students and a medical school. Our name is fine and as a graduate from 30 yrs ago its name on that degree has never hurt my career.
04-10-2009 11:58 AM
Find all posts by this user
UofL07 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,920
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 109
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #6
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
Here are a few I've always wondered about:

{directional adjective} Connecticut State University - I know that these schools are part of the Connecticut State University System and that each of them is named for their respective geographical location (Central, Western, Eastern, Southern). However, I've always thought their names were terrible; they are too long and cluttered. I've always though a better naming system would be something like:

Connecticut State University - formerly Central Connecticut State University - CCSU is the oldest public university in Connecticut, ranks third oldest of all universities in Connecticut, and has an enrollment of 12,000+ students (second behind UConn). As the second largest state school in Connecticut, I think dropping the "Central" would give the school and state more exposure (plus it would be a nicer sounding name).

Connecticut Tech University - formerly Southern Connecticut University. With an enrollment of almost 12,000, why not rename the school to give it a more prominent sounding title (plus it would be a nicer sounding name IMO).

University of Western Connecticut or Western Connecticut University - formerly Western Connecticut State University. Personally I think the University of [compass direction] "X" or the [compass direction] "X" University would be a better linguistic choice.

University of Eastern Connecticut or Eastern Connecticut University - formerly Eastern Connecticut State University. Personally I think the University of [compass direction] "X" or the [compass direction] "X" University would be a better linguistic choice.

......................................................................................................................................................

University of North Carolina at Charlotte - Personally I think the name is too long and should be changed to University of Charlotte. I think such a change would identify the school more with the city (similar to the Memphis State to U of Memphis) and plus the athletic department goes by Charlotte already.

......................................................................................................................................................

Rutgers - The State University of New Jersey - First off, I know that Rutgers will never change their name as there is simply too much history, etc tied to that name. However, that doesn't stop me from thinking that the name "University of New Jersey" would be a better fit for them 03-wink
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 12:21 PM by UofL07.)
04-10-2009 12:09 PM
Find all posts by this user
Advertisement


Yosemite Panther Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 643
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 18
I Root For: Pitt
Location: Central California
Post: #7
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
(04-10-2009 11:55 AM)EvilVodka1 Wrote:  Where do Boise State and Fresno State fit in all of this?

The official correct name of Fresno State is California State University Fresno, but they never use it. They are part of the California State University system. Technically name-wise they are the same as Cal State Fullerton and Cal State Bakersfield, so they should be Cal State Fresno, but I guess Fresno State sounds "better" to them.
04-10-2009 12:17 PM
Find all posts by this user
bluesox Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,295
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 84
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #8
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
USF...is a strange name, not exactly south Florida, would university of Tampa Bay be so bad? UCF, could also go with University of Orlando but don't see those moves happening. UAB could go with University of Birmingham but i think they like the brand UAB...i might have changed Bemidji State to Northern Minnesota university but they didn't like the idea...university of cleveland works better than Cleveland State and Connecticut state might be the best move of all them...well other than Trinity College taking a puff of $'s and becoming duke
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 12:46 PM by bluesox.)
04-10-2009 12:34 PM
Find all posts by this user
Cubanbull Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,617
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 392
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #9
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
bluesox
If you lok at my previous post, youll see why USF got the name and you are correct that name will NOT be changing.
04-10-2009 12:36 PM
Find all posts by this user
UofL07 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,920
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 109
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #10
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
(04-10-2009 11:58 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  I dont ever see USF ever changing its name there would be major uproar from its alumni. At the time the school was named we were the state's furthest south university and thus the name. We have grown to be among the top 50 public research universities in nation and with over 40k students and a medical school. Our name is fine and as a graduate from 30 yrs ago its name on that degree has never hurt my career.

Personally, I think "University of Tampa" or "Florida Tech of Florida A&M" would be a better brand name for the school for a few reasons. First, it would identity the school more closely with its major metropolitan region (similar to Memphis State becoming Memphis) or with the entire state. I think either of those would be more preferable from a marketing standpoint that a regional label. Alumni would probably be pissed, but I think a new name in the long run would be a good move.

Second, I think the directional adjective has a (undeserving) stigma attached to it. On a lot of boards I read, one of the major knocks against adding Central Florida or East Carolina is that the Big East "doesn't need more directional schools". When most people see a directional adjective, I think they equate that school, rightly or wrongly, to a MAC, Sun Belt, or C-USA type standing (where most of the directional schools are located). Having a state wide name would make USF seem to be more on the level of Florida and Florida State, especially now that the Bulls are in a major conference with a much more visible profile. Having a city based name would allow the Bulls to identify more with their home market (IMO) similar to how Louisville, Memphis, etc do.

With that said, USF really isn't in a position to change its name since University of Tampa, Florida Tech, Florida A&M, etc are all already taken. Just my opinion though.

04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 12:54 PM by UofL07.)
04-10-2009 12:43 PM
Find all posts by this user
Frank the Tank Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,722
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 1775
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #11
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
(04-10-2009 11:46 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  UCF used to be called Florida Technological University when it first opened its doors in 1968 as it was mostly a Tech based school for NASA/Martin Marietta, etc...

Once the school started to expand and added many other programs...the State Legislature changed the name to UCF back in 1978.

In UCF's case...the name change really helped ALL the programs and the University go to unforeseen heights (5th largest school in the nation) vs just being for their Engineering programs if they kept the "Technological" name.

Interesting. I actually think "Florida Tech" is a more advantageous sounding name than UCF. It might have been the case back in the '70s that being the "Tech" school pigeonholed it as an engineering school, but with nationally known universities like Virginia Tech and Georgia Tech expanding their offerings, I don't think it's the case anymore. The name "Florida Tech" makes it sound like the school represents the entire state as opposed to just central Florida.
04-10-2009 12:47 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Advertisement


Gray Avenger Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 19,451
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 744
I Root For: MEMPHIS
Location: Memphis
Post: #12
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
(04-10-2009 11:39 AM)UofL07 Wrote:  a land grant flagship is almost always going to be a better school

Mississippi State, Auburn, Michigan State and Texas A&M are "land grant universities". Are they better than Ole Miss, Alabama, Michigan or Texas?
04-10-2009 12:53 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Cubanbull Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,617
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 392
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #13
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
(04-10-2009 12:43 PM)UofL07 Wrote:  
(04-10-2009 11:58 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  I dont ever see USF ever changing its name there would be major uproar from its alumni. At the time the school was named we were the state's furthest south university and thus the name. We have grown to be among the top 50 public research universities in nation and with over 40k students and a medical school. Our name is fine and as a graduate from 30 yrs ago its name on that degree has never hurt my career.

Personally, I think "University of Tampa" or "Florida Tech of Florida A&M" would be a better brand name for the school for a few reasons. First, it would identity the school more closely with its major metropolitan region (similar to Memphis State becoming Memphis) or with the entire state. I think either of those would be more preferable from a marketing standpoint that a regional label. Alumni would probably be pissed, but I think a new name in the long run would be a good move.

Second, I think the directional adjective has a (undeserving) stigma attached to it. On a lot of boards I read, one of the major knocks against adding Central Florida or East Carolina is that the Big East "doesn't need more directional schools". When most people see a directional adjective, I think they equate that school, rightly or wrongly, to a MAC, Sun Belt, or C-USA type standing (where most of the directional schools are located). Having a state wide name would make USF seem to be more on the level of Florida and Florida State, especially now that the Bulls are in a major conference with a much more visible profile. Having a city based name would allow the Bulls to identify more with their home market (IMO) similar to how Louisville, Memphis, etc do.

With that said, USF really isn't in a position to change its name since University of Tampa, Florida Tech, Florida A&M, etc are all already taken. Just my opinion though 04-cheers

UL
I realize its your opinion, but the reality is that its what the university and its alumni do that determines how recognizable the school will become. As you said University of Tampa and Florida AM are already taken in our state and while they are good institutions I wouldnt say they are more recognizable than USF is currently.
USF has only been around for a little over 50 years and has only been recognizable in sports for less than 20. Thats the major reason that some might think a name change would help.
But as I have said the name USF has not hurt the school in becoming a top 50 research university, getting over 40k students and success in athletics.
The funny part is that none of our students and alumni have a problem with our name.
Thanks but no Thanks. We are and will always be the University of South Florida
04-10-2009 12:54 PM
Find all posts by this user
UofL07 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,920
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 109
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #14
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
(04-10-2009 12:53 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  
(04-10-2009 11:39 AM)UofL07 Wrote:  a land grant flagship is almost always going to be a better school

Mississippi State, Auburn, Michigan State and Texas A&M are "land grant universities". Are they better than Ole Miss, Alabama, Michigan or Texas?

While Texas, Alabama, and Michigan are not a land-grant schools, they are still flagship schools that represent their entire state. I think the original author was trying to make the point that a large state-named universities (most of which tend to be land grants) will probably always be considered to be better schools because they will most likely always command more resources, more alumni, etc. I think he said land grant flagship he meant the same think as a flagship university (against, because many of them are land grants to begin with). I based this off his tier one description, though since I didn't write the original post I could be wrong.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 01:03 PM by UofL07.)
04-10-2009 01:00 PM
Find all posts by this user
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,233
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 762
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #15
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
Can you name the 5 D1 football schools that don't have "University" in their names?
04-10-2009 01:02 PM
Find all posts by this user
UofL07 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,920
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 109
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #16
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
(04-10-2009 01:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  Can you name the 5 D1 football schools that don't have "University" in their names?

By D1 I suppose you mean FBS only instead of FBS + FCS...

Boston College
Army
Navy
Air Force
Georgia Tech
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 01:07 PM by UofL07.)
04-10-2009 01:06 PM
Find all posts by this user
Advertisement


swash Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 958
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 40
I Root For: East Carolina
Location: Falling Creek, NC
Post: #17
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
(04-10-2009 12:53 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  
(04-10-2009 11:39 AM)UofL07 Wrote:  a land grant flagship is almost always going to be a better school

Mississippi State, Auburn, Michigan State and Texas A&M are "land grant universities". Are they better than Ole Miss, Alabama, Michigan or Texas?

I've never understood the whole "land grant" thing...the only land grant schools in North Carolina are NC State (Moo U) and NC A&T (a minority University). While you could consider NC State "better" at what they do...animal husbandry and tobacco farming, I don't think anyone could argue that NC A&T is better at...well...anything, compared to the other Universities in the state of NC, most notably East Carolina, Chapel Hill, Charlotte, Wilmington, etc.
04-10-2009 01:35 PM
Find all posts by this user
Frank the Tank Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,722
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 1775
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #18
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
(04-10-2009 01:35 PM)swash Wrote:  
(04-10-2009 12:53 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  
(04-10-2009 11:39 AM)UofL07 Wrote:  a land grant flagship is almost always going to be a better school

Mississippi State, Auburn, Michigan State and Texas A&M are "land grant universities". Are they better than Ole Miss, Alabama, Michigan or Texas?

I've never understood the whole "land grant" thing...the only land grant schools in North Carolina are NC State (Moo U) and NC A&T (a minority University). While you could consider NC State "better" at what they do...animal husbandry and tobacco farming, I don't think anyone could argue that NC A&T is better at...well...anything, compared to the other Universities in the state of NC, most notably East Carolina, Chapel Hill, Charlotte, Wilmington, etc.

Land grant universities refer to schools where federally controlled land was granted to states back in the mid-1800s in order to establish universities. Some land grant universities are considered to be "flagships" in their respective states (i.e. University of Illinois, University of Tennessee) while others aren't - there's not necessarily any rhyme or reason to it. That's why you see a disproportionate number of major public universities that were founded in the 1850's, 1860s, and 1870s. UNC was established in the late-1700s without a federal land grant, so that's partly the reason why it's not considered to a land grant institution (although Rutgers is a "retroactive" land grant university as it added on federal land in the 1800s).
04-10-2009 01:48 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
BullsBEAST Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 2007
Reputation: 27
I Root For: USF Bulls
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Post: #19
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
USF should change our name to The University of Peninsular Florida or The University of the Florida Peninsula

03-shhhh
04-10-2009 02:22 PM
Find all posts by this user
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #20
RE: How a name defines a university & prevents growth
I remember when Virginia Tech was Virginia Polytechnic Institute (VPI)...
04-10-2009 02:25 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.