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Dr. J. Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 11:50 AM)mjs Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 11:44 AM)Dr. J. Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 11:37 AM)mjs Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 10:59 AM)Dr. J. Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 12:31 AM)mjs Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 12:11 AM)eh9198 Wrote:  you think he'd be willing to take on that kinda workload? i hope he'd be willing to teach a perimeter game, and if so, I hope he'd be good at it. I'd worry that as a head coach it would be more inside stuff, though I'm sure he'd want us to pass the ball back OUT, too...

Just like Coach Shields, big Joe is a heck of a nice guy. Maybe he is a good coach, too. I don't know one way or the other. All I do know is that Derrick Bails seems to have regressed and Big Mike was no better this year than last. I would assume coaching the big men is his responsibility. Maybe he was involved in recruiting Will Neighbour- although Joe Kleine is likely as familiar to Neighbour as someone who played in the English soccer league in the mid-90's is to me.

Coach Sullivan is responsible for Will Neighbors.04-rock

I assume I am missing a joke of some type- or is Coach Sullivan someone I should know?

Oops. For some reason I always want to call coach Cunningham Sullivan. I meant Charles Cunningham. Sorry. Those damn brain cells keep disappearing at a greater rate every day.03-banghead

Makes sense. He does look Irish 03-lmfao

8th cousin to The Great John L.04-cheers
03-25-2009 12:37 PM
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tweaky1 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
""""I've noticed two things about him. #1 he doesn't seem charismatic. He doesn't seem to be that coach that players love playing for and draws people in. I mean, I don't know the man I'm just giving you my impression. I'm sure he's a nice guy. #2 he is really up tight. When I was watching our game in Little Rock I really noticed the striking difference between Shields and McDonald. McDonald was calm, collected, confident. Shields was pacing, screaming at the refs, his body language was really out of control. Players pick up on that. """"



2k, have you ever met Shields? I have and I must say he does have the charisma of someone that I would like to play for. I got the pleasure of sitting next to him at a game. Very entertaining, personable and laid back. He also has one of the traits in a coach that I like... Competiveness. What you call out of control, pacing and screaming, some might call coaching. IMO a coach not yelling at the refs from tip to final buzzer either has a large lead/ has no doubt about the outcome or doesn't have much intensity in his game. I think a coach needs to be on the the refs to the very edge of getting T'd up every time out. Get the refs to the point that they hesitate to make a close call against your team because they know they are gonna hear from you. I'll take a John Pelfrey over a Dana Altman any day of the week.
"Players pick up on that." yes they do. If a coach has intensity then so will his players. There is a difference in being intense and out of control. Shields is a fiery coach.

If your gonna disrespect OUR coach you might as well stay on your own board.
03-25-2009 01:44 PM
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Dr. J. Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 01:44 PM)tweaky1 Wrote:  """"I've noticed two things about him. #1 he doesn't seem charismatic. He doesn't seem to be that coach that players love playing for and draws people in. I mean, I don't know the man I'm just giving you my impression. I'm sure he's a nice guy. #2 he is really up tight. When I was watching our game in Little Rock I really noticed the striking difference between Shields and McDonald. McDonald was calm, collected, confident. Shields was pacing, screaming at the refs, his body language was really out of control. Players pick up on that. """"



2k, have you ever met Shields? I have and I must say he does have the charisma of someone that I would like to play for. I got the pleasure of sitting next to him at a game. Very entertaining, personable and laid back. He also has one of the traits in a coach that I like... Competiveness. What you call out of control, pacing and screaming, some might call coaching. IMO a coach not yelling at the refs from tip to final buzzer either has a large lead/ has no doubt about the outcome or doesn't have much intensity in his game. I think a coach needs to be on the the refs to the very edge of getting T'd up every time out. Get the refs to the point that they hesitate to make a close call against your team because they know they are gonna hear from you. I'll take a John Pelfrey over a Dana Altman any day of the week.
"Players pick up on that." yes they do. If a coach has intensity then so will his players. There is a difference in being intense and out of control. Shields is a fiery coach.

If your gonna disrespect OUR coach you might as well stay on your own board.

I don't believe he was disrespecting Coach Shields. He was asked for an opinion by someone on our board, and he gave his honest assessment as far as he could, not really knowing Steve. And many coaches sit and observe the game, but when the ref's need getting on, they do it. If you watch Coach K, and even the fiery Bobby Knight when he was coaching, they sit down a good portion of the game, but they don't hesitate to get up and get on a ref when it's necessary. And our coach Joe Foley, who is undoubtedly a great coach, very seldom leaves the bench during the game. Just different methods of coaching.
I don't think there is anyone on the board who actually knows Steve who doesn't like him personally. Actually our friend from Western is a good contributor to the board and I think most of us enjoy having a different set of eyes who are unbiased give us their opinions of what they think we could do to upgrade. We should welcome all honest opinions.04-cheers
03-25-2009 02:15 PM
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tweaky1 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
I don't believe he was disrespecting Coach Shields. He was asked for an opinion by someone on our board, and he gave his honest assessment as far as he could, not really knowing Steve. And many coaches sit and observe the game, but when the ref's need getting on, they do it. If you watch Coach K, and even the fiery Bobby Knight when he was coaching, they sit down a good portion of the game, but they don't hesitate to get up and get on a ref when it's necessary. And our coach Joe Foley, who is undoubtedly a great coach, very seldom leaves the bench during the game. Just different methods of coaching.
I don't think there is anyone on the board who actually knows Steve who doesn't like him personally. Actually our friend from Western is a good contributor to the board and I think most of us enjoy having a different set of eyes who are unbiased give us their opinions of what they think we could do to upgrade. We should welcome all honest opinions.04-cheers
[/quote]


I do welcome all honest opinions. I just didn't appreciate the cheap shot he put in on Shields. 05-mafia He should have stated his opinion without putting his coach on a pedistal and making ours out to be an "out of control" lunatic on the sidelines.

State an opinion....show respect....... and its all good!!!!

04-cheers
03-25-2009 02:35 PM
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Hilltopper2K Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 02:35 PM)tweaky1 Wrote:  I don't believe he was disrespecting Coach Shields. He was asked for an opinion by someone on our board, and he gave his honest assessment as far as he could, not really knowing Steve. And many coaches sit and observe the game, but when the ref's need getting on, they do it. If you watch Coach K, and even the fiery Bobby Knight when he was coaching, they sit down a good portion of the game, but they don't hesitate to get up and get on a ref when it's necessary. And our coach Joe Foley, who is undoubtedly a great coach, very seldom leaves the bench during the game. Just different methods of coaching.
I don't think there is anyone on the board who actually knows Steve who doesn't like him personally. Actually our friend from Western is a good contributor to the board and I think most of us enjoy having a different set of eyes who are unbiased give us their opinions of what they think we could do to upgrade. We should welcome all honest opinions.04-cheers


I do welcome all honest opinions. I just didn't appreciate the cheap shot he put in on Shields. 05-mafia He should have stated his opinion without putting his coach on a pedistal and making ours out to be an "out of control" lunatic on the sidelines.

State an opinion....show respect....... and its all good!!!!

04-cheers
[/quote]

tweaky, if you look at my original post I said I was hesitant to even bring it up. I was afraid somebody would take it the wrong way. I have no doubt he is a nice guy and no I have never met him.

Perhaps a more constructive approach would have been to say:

If I were advising Sheilds (which was part of the original question), I would tell him to relax a little at crucial points in the game, and be aware of his body language, because what he is telling his players verbally and what he is telling them non verbally is not always the same thing in the two games I watched this year.
03-25-2009 05:46 PM
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Dr. J. Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 05:46 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 02:35 PM)tweaky1 Wrote:  I don't believe he was disrespecting Coach Shields. He was asked for an opinion by someone on our board, and he gave his honest assessment as far as he could, not really knowing Steve. And many coaches sit and observe the game, but when the ref's need getting on, they do it. If you watch Coach K, and even the fiery Bobby Knight when he was coaching, they sit down a good portion of the game, but they don't hesitate to get up and get on a ref when it's necessary. And our coach Joe Foley, who is undoubtedly a great coach, very seldom leaves the bench during the game. Just different methods of coaching.
I don't think there is anyone on the board who actually knows Steve who doesn't like him personally. Actually our friend from Western is a good contributor to the board and I think most of us enjoy having a different set of eyes who are unbiased give us their opinions of what they think we could do to upgrade. We should welcome all honest opinions.04-cheers


I do welcome all honest opinions. I just didn't appreciate the cheap shot he put in on Shields. 05-mafia He should have stated his opinion without putting his coach on a pedistal and making ours out to be an "out of control" lunatic on the sidelines.

State an opinion....show respect....... and its all good!!!!

04-cheers

tweaky, if you look at my original post I said I was hesitant to even bring it up. I was afraid somebody would take it the wrong way. I have no doubt he is a nice guy and no I have never met him.

Perhaps a more constructive approach would have been to say:

If I were advising Sheilds (which was part of the original question), I would tell him to relax a little at crucial points in the game, and be aware of his body language, because what he is telling his players verbally and what he is telling them non verbally is not always the same thing in the two games I watched this year.
[/quote]

I find no problem with that. Constructive criticism.04-rock
03-25-2009 06:25 PM
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LRTrojan Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-24-2009 11:08 PM)Scotto Wrote:  Coach Shields is 40-something..? Surely we can get 20 more years out of him, right..?


This program won't last thru twenty more years of mediocre grinder ball. And I won't be the only be the only one who is getting fed up with not winning the conference tournament.
03-25-2009 07:44 PM
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Scotto Offline
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RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
Sure it will. We've done 6. We're 1/3 of the way there already..!
03-25-2009 07:53 PM
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mjs Online
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Post: #49
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 07:53 PM)Scotto Wrote:  Sure it will. We've done 6. We're 1/3 of the way there already..!

Have we had a coach who ran an uptempo offense since Newell? Certainly not Platt. Maybe Wimp. Sidney, who the heck knows. Porter is the one who taught Steve "pass up a good shot for a better shot". The reality is, we would have been lucky to win 10 games if we tried to "run and gun" with our opponents most of whom had more overall talent. We had two guys who could have played that style of ball, Stevee and maybe Shane. Now, you can go ahead and criticize recruiting if you want to, but Steve did a masterful coaching job to get 23 wins out of this team.
03-25-2009 08:04 PM
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LRTrojan Offline
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RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 08:04 PM)mjs Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 07:53 PM)Scotto Wrote:  Sure it will. We've done 6. We're 1/3 of the way there already..!

Have we had a coach who ran an uptempo offense since Newell? Certainly not Platt. Maybe Wimp. Sidney, who the heck knows. Porter is the one who taught Steve "pass up a good shot for a better shot". The reality is, we would have been lucky to win 10 games if we tried to "run and gun" with our opponents most of whom had more overall talent. We had two guys who could have played that style of ball, Stevee and maybe Shane. Now, you can go ahead and criticize recruiting if you want to, but Steve did a masterful coaching job to get 23 wins out of this team.


And Porter got fired after three or four seasons as a head coach at Illinois State.
03-25-2009 08:14 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 08:04 PM)mjs Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 07:53 PM)Scotto Wrote:  Sure it will. We've done 6. We're 1/3 of the way there already..!

Have we had a coach who ran an uptempo offense since Newell? Certainly not Platt. Maybe Wimp. Sidney, who the heck knows. Porter is the one who taught Steve "pass up a good shot for a better shot". The reality is, we would have been lucky to win 10 games if we tried to "run and gun" with our opponents most of whom had more overall talent. We had two guys who could have played that style of ball, Stevee and maybe Shane. Now, you can go ahead and criticize recruiting if you want to, but Steve did a masterful coaching job to get 23 wins out of this team.

No denying that. Steve has done a great job getting as many wins out of his style and his recruits as he has. No doubt about it. I think part of the argument is, though, that if he had a different philosophy he would have recruited differently as well. We would have the players that could function in an uptempo offense.

Oh, and Wimp played uptempo ball. That was one of his selling points when he took over for Platt.
03-25-2009 08:45 PM
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insideualr Offline
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RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
Steve did a great job winning 23 games. The year we were left out with Graber we had like 15 d1 wins, so we won about 8 more games than that. Grinder ball wins games and we are the type of program that is gong to have to play it. We could loosen it up a little.

The things that ahve to change is kids coming down court and looking at Steve for 10 seconds trying to get a play called followed by 5 seconds to get in position, proceeded by 8 seconds to get the ball up the court. All that leaves you with 12 seconds to run the play.... I can't watch any more poor guard play and we have had some since we moved to The Jack.

Bozeman will change that. If we can get any other wing play, we have to be better on offense. Just the fact that you can throw the ball to big mike and have him pass out to Bozeman. Defense may be worse off and that is how we have won games with Steve over the years.

I am writing this as I watch a tournament we should have been in on hdnet.
03-25-2009 08:58 PM
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mjs Online
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Post: #53
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 08:58 PM)insideualr Wrote:  Steve did a great job winning 23 games. The year we were left out with Graber we had like 15 d1 wins, so we won about 8 more games than that. Grinder ball wins games and we are the type of program that is gong to have to play it. We could loosen it up a little.

The things that ahve to change is kids coming down court and looking at Steve for 10 seconds trying to get a play called followed by 5 seconds to get in position, proceeded by 8 seconds to get the ball up the court. All that leaves you with 12 seconds to run the play.... I can't watch any more poor guard play and we have had some since we moved to The Jack.

Bozeman will change that. If we can get any other wing play, we have to be better on offense. Just the fact that you can throw the ball to big mike and have him pass out to Bozeman. Defense may be worse off and that is how we have won games with Steve over the years.

I am writing this as I watch a tournament we should have been in on hdnet.

How's Richmond looking. Would have been really interesting if we went up to Richmond with PTJR's son on the staff. We could have got some real "inside" info about what another coaching staff thought about our players, coaching philosophy, etc.
03-25-2009 09:19 PM
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Dr. J. Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 08:14 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 08:04 PM)mjs Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 07:53 PM)Scotto Wrote:  Sure it will. We've done 6. We're 1/3 of the way there already..!

Have we had a coach who ran an uptempo offense since Newell? Certainly not Platt. Maybe Wimp. Sidney, who the heck knows. Porter is the one who taught Steve "pass up a good shot for a better shot". The reality is, we would have been lucky to win 10 games if we tried to "run and gun" with our opponents most of whom had more overall talent. We had two guys who could have played that style of ball, Stevee and maybe Shane. Now, you can go ahead and criticize recruiting if you want to, but Steve did a masterful coaching job to get 23 wins out of this team.


And Porter got fired after three or four seasons as a head coach at Illinois State.

And look what they've done since he left. An amazing turnaround.04-rock
03-25-2009 11:40 PM
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eh9198 Offline
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RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
He's an assistant coach at St. Louis now, right?
03-25-2009 11:52 PM
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insideualr Offline
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RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 11:52 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  He's an assistant coach at St. Louis now, right?

ptjr son is on the staff at Richmond. Porter is on staff at Saint Louis. Porter bought a 500k house last year too, so he is probably staying for a while.
03-26-2009 07:55 AM
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tweaky1 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
"If I were advising Sheilds (which was part of the original question), I would tell him to relax a little at crucial points in the game, and be aware of his body language, because what he is telling his players verbally and what he is telling them non verbally is not always the same thing in the two games I watched this year."

That is well said.

Sorry about earlier, cought me on a bad day.04-cheers
03-27-2009 08:58 AM
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MICHAELSPAPPY Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 11:40 PM)Dr. J. Wrote:  And look what they've done since he left. An amazing turnaround.04-rock

Which was to a large extent due to the outstanding recruiting Porter had done. Called the best class in school history. Some commentators said his successor as set up.
03-27-2009 09:37 AM
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Dr. J. Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-27-2009 09:37 AM)MICHAELSPAPPY Wrote:  
(03-25-2009 11:40 PM)Dr. J. Wrote:  And look what they've done since he left. An amazing turnaround.04-rock

Which was to a large extent due to the outstanding recruiting Porter had done. Called the best class in school history. Some commentators said his successor as set up.


Some could say his success here was set up by Sidney's recruiting.
The proof is in the coaching. Nobody will ever know if Porter would have had the same amount of success as his successor, so it's strictly speculation.04-cheers
03-27-2009 09:52 AM
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LRTrojan Offline
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RE: Hey Hilltopper2K
(03-25-2009 08:58 PM)insideualr Wrote:  Steve did a great job winning 23 games. The year we were left out with Graber we had like 15 d1 wins, so we won about 8 more games than that. Grinder ball wins games and we are the type of program that is gong to have to play it. We could loosen it up a little.

The things that ahve to change is kids coming down court and looking at Steve for 10 seconds trying to get a play called followed by 5 seconds to get in position, proceeded by 8 seconds to get the ball up the court. All that leaves you with 12 seconds to run the play.... I can't watch any more poor guard play and we have had some since we moved to The Jack.

Bozeman will change that. If we can get any other wing play, we have to be better on offense. Just the fact that you can throw the ball to big mike and have him pass out to Bozeman. Defense may be worse off and that is how we have won games with Steve over the years.

I am writing this as I watch a tournament we should have been in on hdnet.


Not in this league. I've been watching Sun Belt ball for going on 20 years, and I don't recall a grinder ball team ever having won the league. This has always been a good guard league, and the teams that can shoot the pill are usually the ones who can win it all. You guys can keep on hoping and wishing for Steve to get it done. I'd love to see him do it too, but it ain't gonna happen on his watch. Plus, grinder ball is boring as hell. You can't even give tickets away to watch it. This is a true story, I was going to have to miss a game, and I tried about ten guys, and none of them were interested. Two of them were high school coaches.
03-27-2009 07:41 PM
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