SCREWED!

Because of the stupid decision to allow every team to go to the BE Tourney, if the BE schedule was over today, these teams would face improbable odds at making any last-minute impressions on the selection committee.

Any of these good teams or others such as 'Cuse and 'Nova might be penalized because of a stupid decision.

I guarantee that at least one BE team will get screwed out of a ticket to the big dance because of the new BE tournament.

The next few weeks should be interesting...

Past performance by the NCAA predicts future performance by the NCAA.

Cincinnati and Syracuse have already been screwed in past years by the NCAA. One of the Big East schools will get screwed this year. This monstrocity (Big East basketball) is too big.

I agree it was stupid to expand the tournament, but it also gives teams like UC and Providence a chance to get a couple of extra wins and beef up the profile and won/loss column. That basketball league is way to big.

I would think expanding the tournament helps you by giving the big boys a chance to beat up on the little guys. The middle of the pack teams play each other anyway regardless. The size of the league is more of a problem. Getting 5/8 in is a lot easier than 10/16.

(02-06-2009 07:16 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  I would think expanding the tournament helps you by giving the big boys a chance to beat up on the little guys.

While having all 16 teams play may be of help, it won't be for the reason you state since the 'Big Boys' (5-8) get a bye and the 'Really Big Boys' (1-4) get a double-bye.

Why it might be of help is precisely what CatsClaw talked about in his post. At least two of the four Big East teams with 'Work to Do' will likely be in the 9-12 slots and will need wins.

Under the old format, they would be facing the 5-8 teams and be likely underdogs. In this format they will be favored over the 13-16 teams and should they win that game (no guarantee of course), they will then face the 5-8 opponent they would normally have faced in the opening round having already been battle tested. This extra game experience and having played with the MSG distractions the night before might give them a better chance of upsetting their 5-8 opponent who does not have that extra game in hand and who might be affected by MSG distractions

Of course, it is then highly unlikely that the 9-12 team will go on and win their subsequent quarter-final game, since winning three games in three nights is a tough thing to do.

Quote:The size of the league is more of a problem. Getting 5/8 in is a lot easier than 10/16.

While I won't argue that the size of the league is not a problem, I think the statement about getting 5/8 in is easier than 10/16 is unproven at this point in time. Especially since I can't ever recall an 8-team league that got 5 bids. Can you?

Cheers,
Neil

How many teams did the old ACC with 9 members get in the tournament?
I believe in the 2004 NCAA tourney they got 6 out of 9. that would be like Big East getting 10 teams in.

(02-06-2009 10:05 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  How many teams did the old ACC with 9 members get in the tournament?
I believe in the 2004 NCAA tourney they got 6 out of 9. that would be like Big East getting 10 teams in.

Statistically speaking 6 out of 9 is better than 10 out of 16. But the world of NCAA bids is a lot different now as well.

The Old ACC placed 6 out of 9 in 5 different seasons, while the Old 9 team Big East did that 3 times and 7 out of 9 once. But it was a different animal back when most of this took place since mid-majors were not averaging 30 bids (31 if you count #65) a year like they are now, but only between 27-28 bids a year back then.

Probably the best showing of 6 out of 9 was when the ACC did it in their final season as a 9-team conference (2003-04) and the mid-majors that year earned 32 bids. Of course both the ACC showing and the mid-major showing that year was helped by the Big 10 and Pac 10 each only earning 3 bids and the Big 12 only getting 4 bids and of course Maryland winning the ACC championship - (they might have still gotten in that year simply by getting to the championship game, but we will never know for sure ).

Cheers,
Neil

(02-06-2009 10:05 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  How many teams did the old ACC with 9 members get in the tournament?
I believe in the 2004 NCAA tourney they got 6 out of 9. that would be like Big East getting 10 teams in.

11 actually...

If the BE split and the FB side added ECU and Memphis does anyone think this new league would get 6 or more bids? I think it would be difficult. Remember these teams won't have depaul seton hall and SJU to beat up on and would have to lose to each other

I would say yes, because their RPI because lets supose you go to 9 teams and add Memphis. Well then you would still raise the teams RPIs by playing more higher rated teams twice. Rutgers and US would be the weakest ones. I think we would get 6 out of 9 in there in a year lke this one.
If you added ECU, you would have ECU,USF and Rutgers as the weakest and while the teams RPIs wouldnt beneit as much as with Memphis in league you are still playing everyone twice. I think 6 teams still get in here.

Schools bitchin about being left out the tourny is about as surprising as A-Rod getting busted for steroids. Nothing is going to change anytime soon. It is what it is. As I learned in Navy Bootcamp you have to "Deal With It".

Sorry, when I saw this I had a Van Hagar flashback...

Seriously, I think CatsClaw and Omni hit the nail on the head. If you assume that the higher seeds win their games, under the old format the tournament records would have been:

12, 11, 10 and 9 seeds 0-1
8, 7, 6 and 5 seeds 1-1
4 and 3 seeds 2-1
2 seed 3-1
1 seed 4-0

Now, with the new format, the records would be:

16, 15, 14 and 13 seeds 0-1
12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 and 5 seeds 1-1
4 and 3 seeds 2-1
2 seed 3-1
1 seed 4-0

So, the only teams that on paper that get affected are 9 through 16, and it actually helps 9 through 12. I fail to see how it's a bad think.

USFFan

I have no issue with it. All teams should make the conference tourney, as far as I'm concerned.

Just win baby......

Let's see Orange, if UC beats WVU, you should re-think your post, because that would make UC 4-0 vs. the rest of them But, I'll admit there is a ways to go to get to that point.

The 16-team BE tournament does not hurt anybody. It benefits our top tier teams by giving them one less game to play and it gives our bottom teams a chance to play a mid team instead of the 1 vs 12 that the 12 team tournament had. The bottom teams get to sneak in a win off our 5 to 10 team. Or a 5 to 10 gets a chance to get a win over our number 11 to 16 team. Our top teams get an extra day of rest, which was Mike T. doing no doubt.
The BE went to a 12 team tournament because Mike thought our top teams would be exhausted going into the NCAAs. Now this system gives them an extra game of rest.
Let's face it, making the NCAAs is one thing, winning it is another. The conference should do want it can to protect our best chances to win a national title. Our current BE tournament does just that. The BE title game may be the third time Pitt plays UCONn this season ( no dis to the rest of the league). If I'm running the BE i'm more concerned with the number of final four teams we can place than I am with the overall number of teams we seed.
I know about the money for the each seed but I figure that is what it is. I'm more concerned with the seeding of our top squads in the NCAAs.
Duke will also possibly play UNC three times this season if they meet in the ACC tournament.
P.S> Syracuse only got screwed the first year we didn't make the tournement. Last year Villanove played us out for the final spot. this year it looks like Villanova is kicking our butts again- but we get them at home and better take that game. Foul shooting is terrible for the Cuse. Luckly they beat Florida, kansas and memphis OOC and at least two of those teams are ranked. But if we can't put up a fight in rematches with Georgetown and Villanova, who can complain if we end up in the NIT?

Like Bearcat said "just win baby..."

(02-07-2009 11:24 AM)animus Wrote:  Schools bitchin about being left out the tourny is about as surprising as A-Rod getting busted for steroids. Nothing is going to change anytime soon. It is what it is. As I learned in Navy Bootcamp you have to "Deal With It".

True, it's practically a rite of spring. "Outrage Monday" following Selection Sunday and something for everyone to talk about until the tournament starts.