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Big East football recruiting
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Cubanbull Offline
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Big East football recruiting
While we all agree that star rankings is NOT an absolute guide on success. I do believe that the higher rated players have a higher odd at succeeding. So I went back to the Rivals site and compared what they reported for Big East recruiting the past 4 years and how we are all doing so far. So here it is.
FIVE stars
2005- ONE,
2006-ZERO,
2007-THREE,
2008-ONE,
2009-NONE

FOUR STARS
2005-8,
2006-16,
2007-17,
2008-18,
2009-24

THREE Stars
2005-58,
2006-67,
2007-89,
2008-61,
2009 74

Total players THREE stars or better
2005- 67
2006-83
2007-109
2008-80
2009-98
02-01-2009 10:53 AM
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SF Husky Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
(02-01-2009 10:53 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  While we all agree that star rankings is NOT an absolute guide on success. I do believe that the higher rated players have a higher odd at succeeding. So I went back to the Rivals site and compared what they reported for Big East recruiting the past 4 years and how we are all doing so far. So here it is.
FIVE stars
2005- ONE,
2006-ZERO,
2007-THREE,
2008-ONE,
2009-NONE

FOUR STARS
2005-8,
2006-16,
2007-17,
2008-18,
2009-24

THREE Stars
2005-58,
2006-67,
2007-89,
2008-61,
2009 74

Total players THREE stars or better
2005- 67
2006-83
2007-109
2008-80
2009-98

How about Scout? I noticed ratings on two sites could be very different for the same player. The ALL BE team should tell you how messed up these ratings are.
02-01-2009 01:52 PM
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Cubanbull Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
Yes there are some diference betwen the two sites but not as much as you think. how many 4 stars are 2 stars in the other?
With that said my points are:
1. the Big east is doing better in the rankings.
By the way if you look at the last 4 years the Big East had according to rivals. 339 players ranked three stars or above and 426 two stars or below.
02-01-2009 02:49 PM
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CatsClaw Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
UC actually has some 4 star and 3 star players. The problem is, everytime Cincinnati picks up one of those players Rivals and others immediately knocks a star or two off of his ranking. And if someone like Ohio State gets him they immediately put a star or two on his ranking. For example, last year's UC team was barely ranked in the Top 50 recruiting wise. Yet, it is obvious that was Top 30 caliber recruiting talent on that team.
02-01-2009 03:02 PM
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Cubanbull Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
As I said is not a perfect system but all im saying is that there is a higher % that a higher rated kid will succeed than a lower one.
02-01-2009 03:09 PM
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SF Husky Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
(02-01-2009 03:09 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  As I said is not a perfect system but all im saying is that there is a higher % that a higher rated kid will succeed than a lower one.

You got to ask how does a kid get a higher star. If he has an offer from ND, LSU or one of those traditional schools, he will automatic be a 4 or 5 star.

If a kid is an early commit to say UCONN with no other BCS offers, he is automatic a 1 star or 2 star.

Basically, I think most of these services take a look at what offers a kid get and put a star next to it. If you are a ND recruit, you gonna be a 5 star even though you might suck.
02-01-2009 11:35 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
Talk about recruits and stars all you want. WVU is going to have all their recruits qualify this year. No more partial qualifiers or head cases allowed...
The Charleston Gazette Wrote:WVU's class has leg up in classroom
By Dave Hickman
Staff writer
February 3, 2009


MORGANTOWN - There are certain to be exceptions because there always are, but there's one thing Bill Stewart likes about the West Virginia recruiting class he's expected to sign on Wednesday.

It's not the athleticism, although there's plenty of that.

Nor is it that the Mountaineers seem to have done a pretty good job of filling many of their needs. And yes, there are plenty of needs and plenty of guys to fill them.

No, instead what Stewart likes the most is that come May, June and July he's not likely to be fretting over how many of his incoming recruits are actually going to make the grade.

Not figuratively, but literally.

"We're not talking about guys who have just qualified and won't have eligibility problems,'' Stewart said Monday. "We're talking about a class full of students. We've got honor students, 4.0 guys, great kids.''

Seldom in the recent past have West Virginia recruiting classes been as seemingly well-prepared for college, not from a football standpoint but from an academic point of view.

In taking some chances on some talented athletes, the Mountaineers always seemed to go after at least a few each year who may have been marginal students. In a way, there's nothing wrong with that. We're not talking about taking bad kids. That's another story and there have been a few of those, too. But if you sign a kid whose only issue is that he might not make it academically, well, if he does it's a bonus and perhaps even a home run. And if he doesn't make it, you're simply out a player.

And as long as we're being honest here, let's also admit that while West Virginia's stature has grown by leaps and bounds as far as being a player on the national scene is concerned, it's still not always easy to get the cream of the crop to visit, much less commit, to the school.

And in a way, that's still true. Sure, you can froth at the mouth over the talent Stewart and his staff have apparently assembled in this class, which if you believe the so-called experts, stands to be among the highest-rated groups in school history. But the bottom line is that according to the two primary Internet recruiting services - rivals.com and scout.com - only one of WVU's current commitments is of the five-star variety. Scout.com gives Baltimore running back Tavon Austin five stars, while rivals.com calls him a four-star.

The point is that West Virginia is still fighting an uphill battle for the best of the best and winning only a precious few. So in a way, not much has changed.

What has changed, however, is the Mountaineers' philosophy on what constitutes taking a chance on a kid. Now the only gambles are on talent, perhaps recruiting a kid who might not be on everyone else's radar because West Virginia sees potential. It seems the days of gambling on whether a kid will qualify academically are over.

That's not to say there won't be a few who fall through the cracks. These are still high school kids and you never know what's in their heads. Most still have at least three months of high school classes remaining and, contrary to what some will try to tell you, very few of the current recruits have technically qualified.

Wide receiver Logan Heastie obviously has, because he has already enrolled. Another wideout, Deon Long, has finished the requirements for his high school diploma, but just couldn't get it done in time to enroll last month. The rest, to varying degrees, still need to finish their work and with grade-point averages that match their ACT or SAT scores on a sliding scale.

The difference this year is that virtually everyone on West Virginia's board already has a test score that's more than adequate, provided their high school grades don't slip. One significant exception is the only junior-college signee in the group, defensive end Tevita Finau, who has left Phoenix Community College and returned to Hawaii where he is finishing his two-year degree through online courses.

In past recruiting classes, there were always a minimum of five or 10 players who were still trying to get a decent test score or trying to figure out how to boost their GPA to match whatever score they already had. And so the month of May was spent crossing fingers while waiting for grades and June and July was spent watching guys take the next available test.

That shouldn't be nearly the problem this spring that it has been recently, which is just as encouraging as those experts' ratings of the players themselves.

As for those players, well, if you've read even one word I've written on the subject of recruiting in the past you know I don't buy those ratings at all. If you have any common sense at all, neither will you. I mean, just look at the evidence, which is that West Virginia's best players are almost never their highest-rated recruits. And the highest-rated recruits are almost never the best players.

When are you ever going to learn that and stop getting so worked up?

Of course, maybe the emphasis on academics will change that. Smarter players tend to be better players. One reason so many of WVU's highest-rated recruits haven't panned out is because they haven't lasted. They've either not qualified or struggled academically or simply washed out, perhaps in part to those academic difficulties.

How knows? If these guys succeed where others have not, maybe there will be a case to be made that smarter players will actually make those recruiting experts look smarter, too.

Reach Dave Hickman at 304-348-1734 or dphickman1@aol.com.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2009 01:30 PM by bitcruncher.)
02-03-2009 01:28 PM
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EastsBeast Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
how do those stats compare to the other conferences
02-04-2009 04:29 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
It depends on the school more so than the conference - unless you're referring to the SEC (minus Vandy). Some schools go after anyone with talent, like the majority of SEC teams. Others are more selective...

WVU used to get a lot of partial qualifiers, and they were among the best in the nation at getting them to graduate. But since the rules and the WVU coaching staff have changed, the Mountaineer recruiting philosophy has changed as well...
02-04-2009 04:46 PM
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goodknightfl Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
the funny thing.. is almost every team in the country just got its best class ever.. congrats to the BE on continuing that trend.
02-05-2009 08:51 AM
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Cubanbull Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
(02-05-2009 08:51 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  the funny thing.. is almost every team in the country just got its best class ever.. congrats to the BE on continuing that trend.

I know they all may say so but if we went back and compared their rankings to those from last years than thats not true
02-05-2009 12:43 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
And how many of those great recruits are going to pan out, or even stay in school? Think Jason Gwaltney...
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2009 01:26 PM by bitcruncher.)
02-05-2009 01:22 PM
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Cubanbull Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
As I said many times we can all name some of those that failed but the odds are beter for the higher stars.
I bet we can all name plenty of two stars that also failed
02-05-2009 05:17 PM
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USFMike Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
a quick glance shows louisville tanked in recruiting (again) this year, it's so bad with kragthorpe that i don't think any of the top recruits from louisville even consider the cardinals anymore. with the success and fan support they were having just a few years ago i thought the sky was the limit for that program and than came kragthorpe. cuse recruiting has pretty much sunk to an unthinkable new low ranked 117 but at least they have a new coach if he can generate some life into the program they should be back up in a hurry
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2009 05:51 PM by USFMike.)
02-05-2009 05:37 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
(02-05-2009 05:17 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  As I said many times we can all name some of those that failed but the odds are beter for the higher stars.
I bet we can all name plenty of two stars that also failed
And as I've always said, this is just guesswork. Rankings are a crap shoot, since there is only so much you can measure. Much of what makes players truly great can't be measured. Only talent can be guaged, and it is strictly subjective...
02-05-2009 06:23 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
The teams that do well in recruiting think they are great. Those that don't do well, don't.

This year, I like the recruiting rankings!

But Cuban is correct. The higher rated recruits TEND to produce more, but as has been stated that is not always the case (see Slaton and White)
02-05-2009 08:32 PM
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UltimateCFBfan Offline
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RE: Big East football recruiting
(02-05-2009 01:22 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  And how many of those great recruits are going to pan out, or even stay in school? Think Jason Gwaltney...

Yea but for every Gwaltney there is a guy like Noel Devine......but then again a monkey could have told you Devine had talent coming out of HS. Those highlight vids were sick.
02-05-2009 10:24 PM
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