This morning it was reported that the Coach was making the players keep running that day "until someone quit"...

Someone did quit... they "quit" living..

LOUISVILLE, Ky. — A Kentucky high school football coach was charged Thursday with reckless homicide in the death of a player who collapsed during a sweltering practice in a rare criminal case against a coach in a heat death.

A grand jury indicted David Jason Stinson in the death of Pleasure Ridge Park offensive lineman Max Gilpin. Stinson, in his first year as head coach at the Louisville school, was directing practice on Aug. 20 when the heat index reached 94 degrees and the 15-year-old sophomore collapsed and had trouble breathing.

The player had a temperature of 107 degrees when he arrived at the hospital, authorities said, and died three days later. No autopsy was performed, but it appeared Gilpin died from complications from heat stroke, according to the coroner's office.

Assistant coach Steve Deacon called 911 and told a dispatcher that Gilpin was semiconscious and that his father was nearby, according to a transcript of the call.

"He's just overheated ... and we've got water on him ... he's responsive and he's got a big rapid pulse but ..." Deacon said. "... He keeps going ... yeah he's awake ... we're trying to get him to open his eyes right now ... he's got a rapid pulse."

Heat exposure deaths happen occasionally in all levels of football, with the most famous example being Minnesota Vikings offensive lineman Korey Stringer in 2001. The cases have led to numerous lawsuits, however, no evidence can be found that a coach has ever been charged in the deaths.

The reckless homicide charge means grand jurors didn't find that Stinson's actions intentional or malicious, said Jefferson County Commonwealth's Attorney Dave Stengel, but that "a reasonable man should have realized something like this could have occurred."

Stinson's attorney, Alex Dathorne, told The Associated Press that the coach maintains his innocence and looks forward to "bringing out the whole story."

"We're certainly disappointed in the grand jury's decision to indict," Dathorne said.

Stinson spent his first three years at Pleasure Ridge Park as an assistant football coach, before taking over last season and going 4-4. A school spokeswoman says he has been reassigned pending the outcome of the case. Stinson will surrender Monday at his arraignment and likely will remain free pending trial, Stengel said.

Attorneys representing Gilpin's divorced parents, Michele Crockett and Jeff Gilpin, said in a statement that the school system and high school haven't provided information on the player's death to the family.

"But what we have learned about the coaches' conduct at the football practice that led to Max's collapse and death is inexcusable, as was the lack of urgency and the delay in seeking medical treatment after Max collapsed and never regained consciousness," the statement from attorneys Todd Thompson and Mike Cooper said.

Gilpin's parents sued Stinson and five assistant coaches in state court accusing them of negligence and "reckless disregard." The five assistants were not charged in the indictment, and Stengel said they didn't commit a crime.

From 1960 through 2007, there were 114 heat stroke cases that resulted in death on all levels of football from sandlot to the pros, according to a report compiled by Dr. Frederick Mueller at the University of North Carolina for the American Football Coaches Association in February 2008.

From 2003-07, he attributed 16 deaths to heat stroke, and both cases in 2007 were in high school. A report on the past season wasn't included and Mueller did not immediately return a call from The Associated Press on Thursday afternoon.

Along with the lawsuit and criminal investigation, the school system has been looking into the case, but the results have not been released.

Stinson asked to testify in front of the grand jurors but they declined to hear him, only listening to testimony from a Louisville Metro Police detective, Stengel said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481645,00.html

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If the military will shut you down and force you to sit under a tree until the Wet Bulb stops popping its cherry, then these stupid coaches ought to be held to the same criminal standards.

And all you who are crying over the 100-0 Score where the Apology and Forfeit of Game is in the works .... I expect to see just as much outrage here ....

This man forfeited his life to some god'Coach and for what - - so he could go win the next game 100-0 and have to Forfeit and Apologize ???

What a f'ck's up world .....

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This "kid" who "forfeited his life" has nothing to do with running up a score. Nice try.

And I'm still pissed that thread got deleated.

(01-25-2009 09:25 AM)GRPunk Wrote:  This "kid" who "forfeited his life" has nothing to do with running up a score. Nice try.

I know he didn't .... I was simply drawing that old horrible comparison that usually gets kicked under the rug.

On one hand, you have a bunch of players Made to Feel all fonked out over winning and then, they really make another bunch of kids feel like losers by Forfeiting a Game to them "because they are Less of a Human and need Pity" ..... NOOO !!!

And now this boy, "BOY", is pushed like some Super Human Toy by a Drill Sergent of a idiot coach to his death WHILE HIS FATHER SITS BACK AND WATCHES ??????

I am sorry !!!! But this just sets me on freggin fire .....

We are imploding as a nation and we just don't get it .... we Keep Not Getting It and it is taking us out little by little ....

How many Congressmen and Senators do you see Collapsing from Heat Related Illness ??????

Politicians, somehow, are in the .0001 Percentile for Terminal Illnesses and for the Life Of Me I don't understand that one .... 99.999% of these characters need to be taken on the Next Life and they last FOREVER - - Robert Bird, Ted Kennedy, and on and on.

ARRRGGGGHHHHHHH :sylviaplath: :billgates: :irate: :tp:

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On giving these two sports related matters due thought ... let me qualify my above remarks a little better:

We, as a Nation, have absolutely no problems sending our kids to die on the Field of Sports, yet we Protest and Throw Shoes over sending our kids to Fight on the Field of Battle in protection of our Country and the Keeping Safe of our People.

Somewhere, the logic of a Death on a Football Field is somehow Glorious where a Death on the Battlefield is Dishonorable ?????

I am an All Star Ball Player and a United States Soldier ... I know both kinds of Ass Holes and I know the game in both arena's ....

So from my point of view, we are neither victorious on one Field, if we are not Victorious on the Other ....

Death is just that .... it is DEAD whether you die with an M16 or a Football in your hand .... you are just as dead .....

Why is a kids game glorified over a Fighting Soldiers Job ????

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I honestly don't think it is Trip. We as a nation mourn every loss of a soldier. Here it is Jan. 25th and we are just now hearing this story. All deaths are tragic. It's obvious that this coach didn't have proper training. After Korey Stringer died of heat stroke a couple of years ago The OHSAA made a huge push in educating coaches on heat stroke. i remember when I was a kid we took salt pills and our coach talked about not drinking water. It makes you wonder why we didn't have more deaths back then.

Salt will make your body hold more water, and I think makes you less susceptible to dehydration. I cringe every time I hear a coach talk about withholding water from players - and I hear this from youth soccer coaches as well. There is a much lower incidence of players have over-hydrated, which is another risk, but allowing players to overheat like this is or should be criminal. Sickle Cell death is a variation of this phenomenon, and is harder to prevent, but it all starts with dehydration.

If the coach refused him water and didn't call 911 for 20 minutes, then it is reckless indifference homicide, and a jury will burn him but good.

A random anecdote, but here in Dallas, I think it was a year ago that we had a soccer tournament (late Jan/early Feb) where a kid had the flu and decided to play anyways, collapsed from heat exhaustion, and was in the hospital with brain damage. Dangerous stuff ... I'm of the opinion that there should be a trainer or doctor assigned the task and authority of shutting down either individual players or the entire team regardless of what the coach(es) say.

(01-27-2009 01:36 PM)I45owl Wrote:  A random anecdote, but here in Dallas, I think it was a year ago that we had a soccer tournament (late Jan/early Feb) where a kid had the flu and decided to play anyways, collapsed from heat exhaustion, and was in the hospital with brain damage. Dangerous stuff ... I'm of the opinion that there should be a trainer or doctor assigned the task and authority of shutting down either individual players or the entire team regardless of what the coach(es) say.

People don't realize how easily Heat Related sickness can strike active individuals, especially in what most people would consider Cool or Moderate Temperatures.

If you are in a Wet Suit and are having to float on the surface in very warm water, like that of the Gulf of Mexico, you can succumb to heat prostration and even heat stroke.

You wouldn't think much about Heat Related Issues while SCUBA Diving, but it is a risk in Warm Water - - even at depth.

So having known that for over 30+ years since becoming a Certified Diver, I am amazed at the lack of Heat Related Sickness knowledge of "So-Called Coaches" who are supposed to be Experts in their fields of endeavor.

In the modern world, this makes very little sense to me.


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Heat exhaustion is no fun. I've been there. I suffered heat exhaustion playing of all things golf back in the old polyesther days. It was one of the 90/90 days when the temperature and humidity were about equal. I was sucking down, water, cokes and gatorade, but wearing those cool polyesther threads was like being in a broiler. I played 36 holes carrying my own bag and like Ken Venturi won the tournament. Then things got blurry and I got a splitting headache. When I got home I had a temperature of 105. And ice bath, some salt pills and water and I was okay again. Any coach who pushes his kids in hot weather without taking proper precautions should have their nuts removed.

Yeah heat exhaustion sucks and it can affects those who aren't even the ones that are actively participating. I passed out at an Atlanta Braves game, (from just watching the game) because it was like 110 degrees on the field according to the box score I have pulled up. Heat is not something you play with and he should've let them do some lifting or film study, anything to get them out of the sun.

This coach was totally irresponsible and a total idiot. He obviously never has been affected by the heat. In the 25 years as a supervisor in a non-climate controlled environment....I have personally seen over 20 grown men be stricken by this while working in the summer months....even with an industrial fan blowing on them and being inside out of the sun.

My guys typically go in attics to repair wiring issues and on a 115 degree day the attic could reach over 150 degrees. We've had to go get a guy more than once.

Back in the day when I played coaches would grab face masks and spin you in circles to get their point across. We also had a thing call Bull in the Ring. Basically, a bunch of players made a circle about 12 feet across and the player who needed more motivation got in the middle. Then the coach would yell out a number and the player wearing it would hit the player in the middle. 10 minutes of this was quite dreadful, I know, I was in that circle a few times.

I had a coach in 5th grade that did something like that.

I was the skinnyest kid in school and sucked at football but what the hay. I played center and one day it was "pile on Paul after every snap day". Both sides of the ball. That meaning the defense and my own QB and fellow linemen. <--me

Anyway, after every snap, I was pummeled. Well, felt like that to a 10 year old. When, after every play, I continued to get up and back over the ball, coach got pissed. He finally grab me by my shirt himself and swung at me. Seeing as how my handsome face had already been somewhat distorted already, I ducked and he went flat on his face. I saw no point in playing what had been up until then a fun game with my friends any longer and went home.

(01-27-2009 09:37 PM)Paul M Wrote:  I had a coach in 5th grade that did something like that.

I was the skinnyest kid in school and sucked at football but what the hay. I played center and one day it was "pile on Paul after every snap day". Both sides of the ball. That meaning the defense and my own QB and fellow linemen. <--me

Anyway, after every snap, I was pummeled. Well, felt like that to a 10 year old. When, after every play, I continued to get up and back over the ball, coach got pissed. He finally grab me by my shirt himself and swung at me. Seeing as how my handsome face had already been somewhat distorted already, I ducked and he went flat on his face. I saw no point in playing what had been up until then a fun game with my friends any longer and went home.

If you want worse, have your Father be your freggin coach for 5 Years of League Baseball and 2 Years of League Basketball.

He was also a Certified Basketball Referee and a Certified Baseball Ump, so I couldn't even get away from him on my High School BB Court or BB Diamond. And my High School Coach was just as nutty as my Dad.

I had to put my self into Martial Arts to have a Sport to call my own and get out from under his maniacal super-athlete-wanna-be thumb.

He was a pure SOB as a Coach and a Father .... but it is what it is.

Trying to be the Exact Opposite of him has made me work hard to be a good Dad and my kids show me what I did worked.

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(01-27-2009 11:40 PM)Tripster Wrote:  If you want worse, have your Father be your freggin coach for 5 Years of League Baseball and 2 Years of League Basketball.

He was also a Certified Basketball Referee and a Certified Baseball Ump, so I couldn't even get away from him on my High School BB Court or BB Diamond. And my High School Coach was just as nutty as my Dad.

I had to put my self into Martial Arts to have a Sport to call my own and get out from under his maniacal super-athlete-wanna-be thumb.

He was a pure SOB as a Coach and a Father .... but it is what it is.

Trying to be the Exact Opposite of him has made me work hard to be a good Dad and my kids show me what I did worked.

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Tripster?

I had a better - not perfect, but better - experience with my dad as a coach, and have coached my daughter and hope to start with my son. It hasn't helped that my daughter is sometimes on her worst behavior when practicing with me, but I hope they don't wind up with their own horror stories when they grow to be adults.

(01-29-2009 06:19 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Tripster?

I had a better - not perfect, but better - experience with my dad as a coach, and have coached my daughter and hope to start with my son. It hasn't helped that my daughter is sometimes on her worst behavior when practicing with me, but I hope they don't wind up with their own horror stories when they grow to be adults.

See, my Dad would take all the bad things out on me that the team did ... I would be out there playing my heart out and not messing up at all and he would run out and hang me out to dry for what was done at Shortstop or 3rd Base ... I always played 1st Base .... what could I have done over on 3rd Dad ????

So to keep the love of the other players by not chewing them out like a dog, he chewed them out on me by proxy.

He didn't understand that all the guys knew his twisted game and were more pissed at him for doing this too me than if he had respected them enough to tell them directly what his problem was.

Then after the games, my Dad would take me home, to my Grandmothers House and drop me off until he needed His Son to Shine for Him in public again.

Don't ever do that too your kids people ..... either be there for them or leave them alone ... don't rip into their lives for your Aggrandizement, it takes everything away from that child and pretty much pisses him off for eternity.

Lecture over ....

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(01-29-2009 11:31 AM)Tripster Wrote:  

(01-29-2009 06:19 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Tripster?

I had a better - not perfect, but better - experience with my dad as a coach, and have coached my daughter and hope to start with my son. It hasn't helped that my daughter is sometimes on her worst behavior when practicing with me, but I hope they don't wind up with their own horror stories when they grow to be adults.

See, my Dad would take all the bad things out on me that the team did ... I would be out there playing my heart out and not messing up at all and he would run out and hang me out to dry for what was done at Shortstop or 3rd Base ... I always played 1st Base .... what could I have done over on 3rd Dad ????

So to keep the love of the other players by not chewing them out like a dog, he chewed them out on me by proxy.

He didn't understand that all the guys knew his twisted game and were more pissed at him for doing this too me than if he had respected them enough to tell them directly what his problem was.

Then after the games, my Dad would take me home, to my Grandmothers House and drop me off until he needed His Son to Shine for Him in public again.

Don't ever do that too your kids people ..... either be there for them or leave them alone ... don't rip into their lives for your Aggrandizement, it takes everything away from that child and pretty much pisses him off for eternity.

Lecture over ....

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PS: .....

I forgot to mention in the last post, that my Dad, being the great father he was, is what made me such a good Martial Artist and Boxer ...

I never lost a fight in Tournament or on the Streets ... seeing his face at the end of every punch I threw made for one well trained and inspired fighter.

He made the mistake of getting in my face once too often and when I finished with him that "fateful day of all reckoning", well let us just say that the man became a boy and the boy became a man ... funny how bullies are really sad little scared kittens on the inside ....

Thanks for at least that much Dad ....

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It's heartbreaking to hear your experience, Tripster. My image didn't come through, but it was supposed to be the kid from The Great Santini.

For my part, I try to stay positive and not discuss things off the field, unless she brings it up. Mostly, I hope they enjoy it and want to stick with it.