(01-18-2009 08:32 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  In a free market...employers should be able to contract with ANYONE that they wish that is willing to work for a agreed upon wage....Im sorry...The current FEAR that someone that wanders into our landmass is taking away jobs is not only fear mongering.. but.. is also directly counter to the very free market principles that the small government red gang makes such a big damn deal about expounding in almost every other talking point!!!

Fo, I don't follow your thinking. I've asked for bids to have my house painted. A company that pay taxes, insurance, is licensed gave me a bid that's twice as much as a local painting crew that is not in business, pays no taxes, has no insurance, etc and they are here illegally. I already KNOW the quality of work done by the illegals is high because I've used them several times before (but I didn't know at the time they were illegal, uninsured, and so on). The free market allows their lower bids to be accepted and every job they do takes away jobs from legal, tax paying citizens.

For all you union advocates out there - if a product made by a unionized company costs more than the same (or possibly better) product made by a non-unionized company, would you personally take the extra money out of your pocket and buy the union made product or would you buy the cheaper one?

(01-18-2009 09:11 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-18-2009 08:32 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  In a free market...employers should be able to contract with ANYONE that they wish that is willing to work for a agreed upon wage....Im sorry...The current FEAR that someone that wanders into our landmass is taking away jobs is not only fear mongering.. but.. is also directly counter to the very free market principles that the small government red gang makes such a big damn deal about expounding in almost every other talking point!!!

Fo, I don't follow your thinking. I've asked for bids to have my house painted. A company that pay taxes, insurance, is licensed gave me a bid that's twice as much as a local painting crew that is not in business, pays no taxes, has no insurance, etc and they are here illegally. I already KNOW the quality of work done by the illegals is high because I've used them several times before (but I didn't know at the time they were illegal, uninsured, and so on). The free market allows their lower bids to be accepted and every job they do takes away jobs from legal, tax paying citizens.

For all you union advocates out there - if a product made by a unionized company costs more than the same (or possibly better) product made by a non-unionized company, would you personally take the extra money out of your pocket and buy the union made product or would you buy the cheaper one?

I must again state that it is the government and its failed policies that allow the type of thing you describe. If you are concerned with this...then either use the snail slow process of government to solve this...OR...become a part of the marketplace and send market signals out that those that are competing in a manner you feel unfair by NOT hiring them. If you choose to contract with these workers then you are sending the marketplace a signal that the others in their market should become more competitive or find OTHER means of doing business.

I doubt that very few of Americans will refuse quality services offered at the least cost.

I'm sorry you did not allow anyone to have a job taken away from them by hiring services at a cheaper rate......Would you have continued to use horse and buggy drivers a higher fare after the model T was invented?...Would you have refused to use the electric light and continued to use candles and lanterns after its invention?

The marketplace is NOT kind. Failure to compete often leads to the demise of most businesses. You cant have it both ways...you either support the free market and accept it or you fall into the trap of governmental interventionism....Blaming the very people that are providing goods and services at a lower price with quality a service is silly....Start blaming the POLITICIANS and their inane policies for these problems!

People think high taxes on the wealthy makes the economy grow, because that's what the poor and stupid are taught to believe by their uneducated parents and public school teachers that were brainwashed by their unions. Obama knows better as he has a real education at Harvard business school. Even he knows repealing the Bush tax cuts would harm the economy even more. Obama got elected playing the class war game, but now that he is in charge he will do what is right for the country and for his own re-election hopes. Obama knows if he can't get this ecomony going in fours year, then Mitt Romney will have a strong chance to defeat him in 2012. Its plain and simple for Obama....get the economy going and he wins by a landslided over Palin in 2012 in which social issues will be the only argument the GOP will have. If he doesn't then Romney will be able to run on the economy and social issues against a failed president that raised taxes and didn't do the job he was elected to do. its that simple. Pelosi is in a safe liberal district. She can't lose her seat, but Democrats can lose the house and the presidency just as fast as they got it. Double digit unemployment and double digit inflation won't save the Democrats in two or Obama in four years. People don't want a 8 year plan. They want a 2 year plan or less.

Fo, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you implying that everything should be survival of the fittest? Eat or be eaten? Do you think we should do away with antitrust laws and allow monopolies? What if a new company came out with a better operating system than Windows. Would you think it's ok for Microsoft to buy them and shut them down in order to maintain their place in the market place?

Anyway, a nation is not a nation if it has no borders. And anyone coming here from another country is one of two things: A guest or a criminal.

(01-18-2009 11:13 PM)smn1256 Wrote:   What if a new company came out with a better operating system than Windows. Would you think it's ok for Microsoft to buy them and shut them down in order to maintain their place in the market place?

Anyway, a nation is not a nation if it has no borders. And anyone coming here from another country is one of two things: A guest or a criminal.

They already have ... it is Linux and M$ has so far been able to squash it into dust.

Linux will walk millennia around any Windows Platform and KERNEL, but M$ has the Claws and the Jaws to force it underground.

I have lived in the Computer Technical Arena for a lot of years and know this as fact.

M$ is a Monopoly and the wasted Federal Anti-Trust Trial was a miserable joke and accomplished absolutely ZERO.

People usually, yet mistakenly think that Certified Computer Technicians love and chose Windows over other Operating Systems - - it ain't so .... we are simply stuck with Windows because of Bill Gates shrewd business sense and Steve Jobs lack of same, but his quirky Uber-Hippy ways. I will pick Job's over Gates any day and twice on Sunday.

I use "Knoppix" all the time to 'Rescue Windows Machines' and it is a priceless tool when repairing a Windows FUBAR.

When M$ was struck by Malicious Coders and their Servers went down, they fired up Linux and Unix Boxes to Defend the Windows Machines that were being pummeled and DOS Attacked ....

We laughed until we hurt over that one .... the $60 Billion Dollar Man having to stoop to using Linux Boxes to protect his Mighty Windows Infrastructure .....

This just goes to show what Steve says about "Monopolies are Absolutely True" ... they stifle competition and kill off Fair Markets and don't usually offer the Best Product.

Chuck Colson: "When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow" ....

Sound edict for the human race .....

.

(01-18-2009 11:05 PM)OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:  People think high taxes on the wealthy makes the economy grow, because that's what the poor and stupid are taught to believe by their uneducated parents and public school teachers that were brainwashed by their unions. Obama knows better as he has a real education at Harvard business school. Even he knows repealing the Bush tax cuts would harm the economy even more. Obama got elected playing the class war game, but now that he is in charge he will do what is right for the country and for his own re-election hopes. Obama knows if he can't get this ecomony going in fours year, then Mitt Romney will have a strong chance to defeat him in 2012. Its plain and simple for Obama....get the economy going and he wins by a landslided over Palin in 2012 in which social issues will be the only argument the GOP will have. If he doesn't then Romney will be able to run on the economy and social issues against a failed president that raised taxes and didn't do the job he was elected to do. its that simple. Pelosi is in a safe liberal district. She can't lose her seat, but Democrats can lose the house and the presidency just as fast as they got it. Double digit unemployment and double digit inflation won't save the Democrats in two or Obama in four years. People don't want a 8 year plan. They want a 2 year plan or less.

I agree with the first part and hope you're right on the rest.

(01-19-2009 12:02 AM)Tripster Wrote:  

(01-18-2009 11:13 PM)smn1256 Wrote:   What if a new company came out with a better operating system than Windows. Would you think it's ok for Microsoft to buy them and shut them down in order to maintain their place in the market place?

Anyway, a nation is not a nation if it has no borders. And anyone coming here from another country is one of two things: A guest or a criminal.

They already have ... it is Linux and M$ has so far been able to squash it into dust.

Linux has to get in line. Microsoft killed Novell long before Linux was even though of. Novell was also a better NOS by far than NT. But Novell is part of history now, but is otherwise irrelevant...

(01-18-2009 11:13 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Fo, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you implying that everything should be survival of the fittest? Eat or be eaten? Do you think we should do away with antitrust laws and allow monopolies? What if a new company came out with a better operating system than Windows. Would you think it's ok for Microsoft to buy them and shut them down in order to maintain their place in the market place?

Anyway, a nation is not a nation if it has no borders. And anyone coming here from another country is one of two things: A guest or a criminal.

There are only 2 types of monopoly...coercive(government granted) and market(achieved by superiority in the marketplace). There a plenty of coercive monopolies around...there are almost NO market monopolies that last very long. Competition makes it very hard to achieve a market monopoly...so..Yes I oppose anti-trust laws on that basis...but...I also oppose coercive monopolies. I'd like to do away with both and allow the free market to regulate competition unfettered. As it stands today...we do not even come close to having a free market situation.

As for business being bought out and such...I could care less how 2 businesses contract between themselves just as I could care less how 2 individuals contract between themselves...with the usual caveat of "causing no harm" to others.

Survival of the fittest?...well...yes. The market actors that provide the best quality, innovation and service at the most competitive price usually dominate the marketplace. Yes... there are probably a handful of exceptions but Ill bet you most of the time they have the benefit of a government sweetheart deal or other government granted business edge.

I fully admit the the self regulation of the free market is NOT perfect..but...It is light years ahead of government regulation.

(01-19-2009 05:57 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  there are almost NO market monopolies that last very long. Competition makes it very hard to achieve a market monopoly...so..Yes I oppose anti-trust laws on that basis...but...I also oppose coercive monopolies.

Survival of the fittest?...well...yes. The market actors that provide the best quality, innovation and service at the most competitive price usually dominate the marketplace. Yes...

M$ is a True Monopoly in every sense of the word and more than that, it is a Tyrannical Dictatorship that Vigorously Decimates any and all Opponents and Competition very bloodily.

You can toss a "3rd Kind of Monopoly" into the mix on this one - 'The Erosive Monopoly' .....

Windows has left us in a super vacuum and a chasmic void that has held us hostage to Blue Screens of Death and such lamely last minute idea kinds of lethargic and pathetic Attack Protections, until it is simply criminal.

There are thousands of people that could tell you stories about M$ that would curl your hair - - you must not forget that M$'s Operating Systems and other Software, Runs and Powers places like, Hospitals, Airports, High Security Military and Government Installations with Top Secret Information, GEO Sync Satellite Orbiting Software, and almost anything you can dream up. NOT because Windows is the Best, but because "it is the only kid on the block" by super strong armed design.

Windows is a 2nd Rate OS by any standard - - if the Software World were a Fair and Free Market with Normal Competition, M$ would either have been put out of business in the 80's or would have had to create a Real and True Competitive Product.

Just drop by the Hollywood Studios and CGI Creators and see what OS they use ..... HINT: "It Ain't Windows unless it MUST BE".

If you own the only store on Earth, you get all the business regardless if your food is Spoiled or Fresh and you can name your price no matter how outrageous it is ....

As Ripley said: "Believe it or Not" .....

.

(01-19-2009 09:09 PM)Tripster Wrote:  

(01-19-2009 05:57 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  there are almost NO market monopolies that last very long. Competition makes it very hard to achieve a market monopoly...so..Yes I oppose anti-trust laws on that basis...but...I also oppose coercive monopolies.

Survival of the fittest?...well...yes. The market actors that provide the best quality, innovation and service at the most competitive price usually dominate the marketplace. Yes...

M$ is a True Monopoly in every sense of the word and more than that, it is a Tyrannical Dictatorship that Vigorously Decimates any and all Opponents and Competition very bloodily.

You can toss a "3rd Kind of Monopoly" into the mix on this one - 'The Erosive Monopoly' .....

Windows has left us in a super vacuum and a chasmic void that has held us hostage to Blue Screens of Death and such lamely last minute idea kinds of lethargic and pathetic Attack Protections, until it is simply criminal.

There are thousands of people that could tell you stories about M$ that would curl your hair - - you must not forget that M$'s Operating Systems and other Software, Runs and Powers places like, Hospitals, Airports, High Security Military and Government Installations with Top Secret Information, GEO Sync Satellite Orbiting Software, and almost anything you can dream up. NOT because Windows is the Best, but because "it is the only kid on the block" by super strong armed design.

Windows is a 2nd Rate OS by any standard - - if the Software World were a Fair and Free Market with Normal Competition, M$ would either have been put out of business in the 80's or would have had to create a Real and True Competitive Product.

Just drop by the Hollywood Studios and CGI Creators and see what OS they use ..... HINT: "It Ain't Windows unless it MUST BE".

If you own the only store on Earth, you get all the business regardless if your food is Spoiled or Fresh and you can name your price no matter how outrageous it is ....

As Ripley said: "Believe it or Not" .....

.

Sorry...Microsoft is market monopoly. There have been plenty of examples of companies just like them that at one time had the major portion of its market share that are not even in business anymore. Unless they get an advantage from the government...They will likely face the same fate either through a competition or new innovation that makes them obsolete...just as model Ts made horse buggies obsolete.

(01-20-2009 06:42 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Sorry...Microsoft is market monopoly. There have been plenty of examples of companies just like them that at one time had the major portion of its market share that are not even in business anymore. Unless they get an advantage from the government...They will likely face the same fate either through a competition or new innovation that makes them obsolete...just as model Ts made horse buggies obsolete.

Not these guys Fo ..... they are Super Combat Veterans in the Corporate Wars and they know how to fight and win every time.

And yeah, they are a 'Market Monopoly', but still the definition of M$ as an 'Erosive Tyrannical Dictatorship' describes their 'Inner Office Practices as much as it Describes their Public Power Based Competition Stifling Practices'.

M$ will NEVER go out of business - - because it Purposely has made an "Incurable Cancer" and it holds the Only Treatment in it's Top Secret Vaults - - we MUST Have M$ or most of the World would TRULY Collapse before they can 'Re-Tool' with some workable Competitors Software.

Ballmer and Gates have strategically structured M$'s entire functioning around this very concept and no one has ever stopped them and no one will .... M$ owns man ... it just purely frekkin powns the INTERNATIONAL Software World.

There is not one area of the Software Market that M$ does not exceed in and take over with a vengeance - - M$ is the Virus talked about in the Matrix and it is just that simple.

And they have ALWAYS Posted Record Profits since 1975 without exception - - even when all around them were imploding, M$ was marching right along with no worries in the world .... Gates is a Maniacal Business Genius and he will not be fooled, cajoled, or had in any way regarding his business practices and his total ownership of the Software World.

.

So, there's no way one can obtain another type of operating system? Damn, and here I was thinking that Apple's OS X and the various versions of Linux were available. Must have been my imagination.