(12-30-2008 12:04 AM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  There truly is an interesting array of philosophies among our fans. I would bet that fans of programs all over the country display a similar range of opinions on recruiting. I truly feel sorry for people who cannot enjoy a program like ours who doesn't win as much as they wish. I feel blessed to have a D1 program. I always want to be better, but I can certainly enjoy rooting for a team at our level. I sense that some people just make themselves feel miserable by rooting for our team. How sad! It's certainly one's right to feel that way. But how sad! I am so glad that I can accept what those folks call mediocrity. Life is so much more enjoyable that way. Go Trojans!

Well put Ynocpirt. I enjoy going to the games. We all have great seats that we would never get at a "big time" program. I can leave my house at 6:45 and make the Tip-Off. The majority of the games are competitive and exciting, win or lose. But, except for Sidney's year, I think we have always won a majority of our home games. Most of us know the coach on the first name basis- he actually takes the time to talk us "regular fans". We have good kids on the team who don't do anything to embarrass us as fans. I refuse to dissect every loss like many here seem to do. Rice outplayed us and won-big deal. Maybe our guys ate too much turkey for Christmas- who knows. If we played them 10 times we'd probably split the games. They are a Div I program and are trying to win as hard as we are. Every team on our schedule has been a Division I team with equal or better resources. I think all except ORU and maybe Cal Poly are from higher rated conferences. We are 8-4. I feel confident we'll finish in the high teens (if not better) in wins. Like you I feel blessed to have this program right here in our backyard, especially because (like you well remember) there were people who wanted to take it away from us 20 years ago. I still have to pinch myself on occasion when I walk into the Stephens Center to convince myself that it isn't a dream after years of playing at Barton, the Fieldhouse, and even UAPB and UCA. Like you, I am truly enjoying what we have.

There are many things that we can be thankful for, considering what we came from and almost lost as a community. We have a D1 program which means we have a shot. After nearly 20 years, you think we'd get a break and go to the NCAAs again. It has been way too long. We have the resources, the personnel and the facilities. We still have a shot this season. And wouldn't it be great to get in the dance this year?

But I know what Ynocpirt means about people not wanting to be happy. If the league is down enough that this "mediocre" Trojan club manages to win the tournament and get in, the negaholics will tear the accomplishment to shreds. They will say that we got lucky, the league is way down, we only got a (14, 15 or god forbid 16) seed. We still suck. They'll say it's like the Dickie Nutt Effect of his 1999 championship. We'll be stuck with Shields until kingdom come. Oh the horror!

I have to admit, I share some of the feelings they have. But I also will stop to enjoy the moment.

At least when we accomplish something it is a real accomplishment.

[quote='Robert C' pid='3854338' dateline='1230618947']
There are many things that we can be thankful for, considering what we came from and almost lost as a community. We have a D1 program which means we have a shot. After nearly 20 years, you think we'd get a break and go to the NCAAs again. It has been way too long. We have the resources, the personnel and the facilities. We still have a shot this season. And wouldn't it be great to get in the dance this year?

But I know what Ynocpirt means about people not wanting to be happy. If the league is down enough that this "mediocre" Trojan club manages to win the tournament and get in, the negaholics will tear the accomplishment to shreds. They will say that we got lucky, the league is way down, we only got a (14, 15 or god forbid 16) seed. We still suck. They'll say it's like the Dickie Nutt Effect of his 1999 championship. We'll be stuck with Shields until kingdom come. Oh the horror!

I have to admit, I share some of the feelings they have. But I also will stop to enjoy the moment.

I would love to get a 14 or 15 seed, or even a 16 at this point. I would not expect to win the first game under those circumstances, but I would be pulling for our kids to pull an upset. Whether the league is down or up, winning it all would be so much better than anything we've done in the past 20 years, that it would be great. There are many great things about our coaching staff and program, but I don't think it is wrong to expect to win a league title every once in awhile. If winning is not important, than why do we keep score? Let's enjoy what we have, but don't be willing to accept less than we're capable of producing. We have a good school in a good area, and a great facility. That should equate to some championship basketball once in awhile. And I'm not talking about Division championships. That's sort of like winning the sportmanship trophy. Or Miss Congeniality!

(12-30-2008 08:29 AM)Dr. J. Wrote:  If winning is not important, than why do we keep score?

That reminds me of double-A baseball...

I'd rather win the conference when its down than be one of the also rans when the league is down.

The first measure of a program is vs. its closest peers, and that's the conference.

The second measure is against the next closest peers and in the case of the Sun Belt its the conferences rated 11 to 20 in the RPI, even in years when we stagger out of that middle 10 grouping, based on fan support and university budgets we should be there.

The third measure is against Division I as a whole.

My personal thought is any Sun Belt coach putting a team out there who can't get to 200 or better in the RPI needs to be on the chopping block. If their average ranking in the RPI in the prior three years is 200 or worse they are automatic fire unless that third year was something really special (ie. 115 or better).

Athletic directors in the Sun Belt ought to be looking very hard any coach who isn't averaging 150 or better in the RPI. Any standard higher than that should take into account the realistic estimate of the program's budget and fan support.

[quote='arkstfan' pid='3854862' dateline='1230652511']
I'd rather win the conference when its down than be one of the also rans when the league is down.

The first measure of a program is vs. its closest peers, and that's the conference.

The second measure is against the next closest peers and in the case of the Sun Belt its the conferences rated 11 to 20 in the RPI, even in years when we stagger out of that middle 10 grouping, based on fan support and university budgets we should be there.

The third measure is against Division I as a whole.

My personal thought is any Sun Belt coach putting a team out there who can't get to 200 or better in the RPI needs to be on the chopping block. If their average ranking in the RPI in the prior three years is 200 or worse they are automatic fire unless that third year was something really special (ie. 115 or better).

Athletic directors in the Sun Belt ought to be looking very hard any coach who isn't averaging 150 or better in the RPI. Any standard higher than that should take into account the realistic estimate of the program's budget and fan support.

Sounds fair to me. But teams need to stop giving coaches long term contracts, or extending them. Personally, I'd like a rule where no team could give a new coach more than a three year contract, and at the end of three years, he would either have his contract renewed or not. No situation where you'd be in a position to have to keep a losing coach because you couldn't afford to pay off another three or four years of his contract. That's stupid business. Worthy of GM, Chrysler, and Ford.

(12-30-2008 12:00 PM)Dr. J. Wrote:  [quote='arkstfan' pid='3854862' dateline='1230652511']
But teams need to stop giving coaches long term contracts, or extending them. .

But in today's market, without such a contract, you can't get a good coach. Also, any coach should be given time enough for his recruits to be seniors. If a program isn't willing to wait to that extent, why hire the guy in the first place?