(12-26-2008 09:25 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(12-26-2008 09:00 AM)bearcat54 Wrote:  converl,
just take a deep breath and realize that Andy Kennedy is a human being. He makes mistakes like all of us. His failure to keep james white and jihad muhammad in classes was one of his first mistakes in cincy and not even inviting potential recruits to visit uc during his interim season was another. This last one was the third. Consuming alcohol at 0245 and being out in the public at that hour when he should have been in his hotel was pretty dumb. His hotel probably had a bar. He and his sidekicks made a poor, poor judgement that night and it will now follow him for awhile, especially as recruiting is INVOLVED. It was his mistake and lack of judgement on that, not the cincy police or a cab driver or a valet. Put yourself in the cabbies place. Getting a ticket for having too many passengers not constrained by seat belts would be a tough fine for him to pay. DO you think Andy and his friends would have paid it?
Andy's mistake is just as blatent as Coach Huggin's was the night he chose to sit behind the wheel of a car and drive home after consuming lots of alcoholic beverages. Andy probably wishes he would have chosen Sprite as his beverage. And I think you probably wished he had too.

What about the athletes that show up to class now and take a nice 1.5 hour nap?

The fact that recruiting is even being discussed is laughable. "Yeah, come to Cincinnati. I have no freakin' clue who the coach will be, but you'll love playing here!"

And for those of you who say Huggs and Kennedy trashed UC/Cronin all night long, how about providing some actual quotes? TIA.

if an athlete attends class but decides not to listen and learn, that will later be found out when he or she fails. I don't know what you meant by that anyways. Athletes went to class when Huggins was there so you must be trying to hint that they ddint under Kennedy and Cronin. I know UC has in recent years been given notices of many basketball and football players doing well in the class so it would be interesting in what you mean now. Andy could have coached a championship NIT team if he had done what Huggins and Cronin did. Require them to at least attend classes. I'm sure thats how XU gets them through over their school. It's simple...you get a scholarship, you're attending classes.
Also, if a coach is getting a couple hundred thousand or more dollars, you do your best for your employer until services are no longer needed.

(12-26-2008 03:47 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  if an athlete attends class but decides not to listen and learn, that will later be found out when he or she fails. I don't know what you meant by that anyways. Athletes went to class when Huggins was there so you must be trying to hint that they ddint under Kennedy and Cronin. I know UC has in recent years been given notices of many basketball and football players doing well in the class so it would be interesting in what you mean now. Andy could have coached a championship NIT team if he had done what Huggins and Cronin did. Require them to at least attend classes. I'm sure thats how XU gets them through over their school. It's simple...you get a scholarship, you're attending classes.
Also, if a coach is getting a couple hundred thousand or more dollars, you do your best for your employer until services are no longer needed.

it was brought up because you blamed Muhammad and White's not going to class on Kennedy. If athletes are showing up to class now but sleep (or leave after 20 minutes) the entire lecture, how's that any different? At least be consistent. It's the players responsibility to attend class, coach's aren't paid to hold their hand and walk them to class. If you want someone to check out whether each athlete is attending class, that is typically done by people in the AD.

As for the NIT Championship, who gives a crap about that? The NCAA tournament is the only one that matters.

As for recruiting, which I'll assume is what you're referring to in the last comment since you hadn't addressed it yet, are you serious? Everyone knew recruiting was dead the second Huggins was fired. Every question a recruit would want to know directed towards AK would get the response "I don't know". To even think about blaming AK for that is laughable.

(12-26-2008 06:48 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  I was there. the most disparaging thing I heard was from Huggs, "Remember, this is your university, not hers."

There were a few things that were said after the coverage stopped when they held court that bummed a few folks out. A few of which were Huggs and AK laughing while talking about how UC's program was dead and how happy they were to be out of here. AK saying he knew he was not going to get the job at the start of the season and that he told Downey to take unofficial visits. AK saying he would not tell recruits that UC was a good place to be. A few other zingers. At the time I walked away with a real bad taste in my mouth. Was not the perfect way to say goodbye, IMO. Smacked a bit of the parting shots by a jilted ex. Rear view mirror. Everyone is better off now - UC, KSU, Ole Miss, WVU. No complaints.

AK showed little class when he left UC. He would not be a head coach if not given the opportunity to coach UC. What harm did UC do to him, yet he worked to undermine the program while still employed by the university. In my mind the height of insubordination. He was paid very well and acted like a child, sounds similar to what happened last week and now he wants to be bailed out again.

If you do not think he could have influenced the academics of White and Jihad, look at what Mick has done to the APR. Based on the totality or his time, I really do not understand why people can look at his tenure and say he was a good for the university. We lost a scholarship based on his actions, it didn't matter but if Mick had not turned it around we would be in far worse shape.

(12-26-2008 03:47 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  Athletes went to class when Huggins was there so you must be trying to hint that they ddint under Kennedy and Cronin.

No they didn't. I had classes with several basketball players in 1995 and 1996. I would see them the first day of class and maybe once or twice more the rest of the quarter. The only player I saw attending class on a regular basis was Jackson Julson.

This debate will never end. One problem appears to be people pull facts to support their arguments yet revise history by failing to mention other critical facts: AK apparently made nasty comments about UC at some fan event therefore the conclusion is he's a classless a*s.
What's conveniently missing from this point is the fact that he was treated like utter crap by UC towards the end of his year as head coach, not given a shot at the top job even after going what? 15-2 unless he agreed to disavow Huggins and then had his mic cut off during the last game radio show. All this after having a great season in what could've turned into a nightmare given the way it was handled by the Administration. So I can see how he harbored some resentment after the debacle finally ended.

Similarly, the entire season is discounted because Jihad and White became ineligible and this is somehow entirely AK's fault. He must've done something right to get a team that lost its coach and unquestioned leader before the season started and yet rallied those kids and got them to a winning season in their first year in the BE.

I guess its all how you look at the facts and which ones people choose to ignore. Its like concluding that Huggins' kids didn't go to class. I had classes with Gregor, Legree, and several others while at UC. I saw them almost every class except when they had to travel for a game and were out. So some must've gone to class. There's also a bunch with degrees and knowing that UC doesn't hand out degrees, I'm guessing they went to class too. Its just amazingly sad to me how quickly we've turned what was a great era in UC basketball history into some dark and horrible time. I understand the frustration when some fans on here immediately turn back the clock to Huggins when frustrated over the last two years. Its annoying, but not nearly as annoying as just trashing our former coaches and re-characterizing them as having literally no redeeming value.

We've got the friggin orange bowl in less than a week and we're still debating this. Apologize for the long post, but we've all got to move on here, respect and not totally trash the past and look forward to the future. Our hoops team has 10 wins and 2 lousy losses and we're almost into the conference play!! The future is bright.

(12-26-2008 09:00 AM)bearcat54 Wrote:  converl,
just take a deep breath and realize that Andy Kennedy is a human being. He makes mistakes like all of us. His failure to keep james white and jihad muhammad in classes was one of his first mistakes in cincy and not even inviting potential recruits to visit uc during his interim season was another. This last one was the third. Consuming alcohol at 0245 and being out in the public at that hour when he should have been in his hotel was pretty dumb. His hotel probably had a bar. He and his sidekicks made a poor, poor judgement that night and it will now follow him for awhile, especially as recruiting is INVOLVED. It was his mistake and lack of judgement on that, not the cincy police or a cab driver or a valet. Put yourself in the cabbies place. Getting a ticket for having too many passengers not constrained by seat belts would be a tough fine for him to pay. DO you think Andy and his friends would have paid it?
Andy's mistake is just as blatent as Coach Huggin's was the night he chose to sit behind the wheel of a car and drive home after consuming lots of alcoholic beverages. Andy probably wishes he would have chosen Sprite as his beverage. And I think you probably wished he had too.

Again--the only documented fact in your tome is that AK left a bar during the early morning hours prior to a game scheduled to be played the next evening at USBank arena--the rest is complete conjecture on your part--source your story and I'll believe what you say--

Also, show me the history of AK acting in a racist manner in public and starting fights in public for NO REASON--none of this fits with his behavior while coaching in Cincinnati...

(12-26-2008 08:20 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(12-26-2008 03:47 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  Athletes went to class when Huggins was there so you must be trying to hint that they ddint under Kennedy and Cronin.

No they didn't. I had classes with several basketball players in 1995 and 1996. I would see them the first day of class and maybe once or twice more the rest of the quarter. The only player I saw attending class on a regular basis was Jackson Julson.

was it possible that they moved out of the remedial classes? I know Huggins suspended those that missed class so maybe they dropped them or moved to more convenient times for their schedules.
anyways, thats in the past..and AK should just forget his past while the future sneaks up on him. It's a shame he's ruining his career and i doubt if his wife is very happy over it either. Best of luck to Andy and his family and hoping they get throught this.
GO CATS!!!!!!!

They would be there the first day and then usually one or two days before the final.

(12-26-2008 08:20 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(12-26-2008 03:47 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  Athletes went to class when Huggins was there so you must be trying to hint that they ddint under Kennedy and Cronin.

No they didn't. I had classes with several basketball players in 1995 and 1996. I would see them the first day of class and maybe once or twice more the rest of the quarter. The only player I saw attending class on a regular basis was Jackson Julson.

And he sucked. I took him from out on the baseline, gave him a head fake, and scored an easy layup during a pickup game. For those of you that know me, I'm vertically challenged and should not be schooling any varsity player.

(12-26-2008 09:06 PM)converrl Wrote:  

(12-26-2008 09:00 AM)bearcat54 Wrote:  converl,
just take a deep breath and realize that Andy Kennedy is a human being. He makes mistakes like all of us. His failure to keep james white and jihad muhammad in classes was one of his first mistakes in cincy and not even inviting potential recruits to visit uc during his interim season was another. This last one was the third. Consuming alcohol at 0245 and being out in the public at that hour when he should have been in his hotel was pretty dumb. His hotel probably had a bar. He and his sidekicks made a poor, poor judgement that night and it will now follow him for awhile, especially as recruiting is INVOLVED. It was his mistake and lack of judgement on that, not the cincy police or a cab driver or a valet. Put yourself in the cabbies place. Getting a ticket for having too many passengers not constrained by seat belts would be a tough fine for him to pay. DO you think Andy and his friends would have paid it?
Andy's mistake is just as blatent as Coach Huggin's was the night he chose to sit behind the wheel of a car and drive home after consuming lots of alcoholic beverages. Andy probably wishes he would have chosen Sprite as his beverage. And I think you probably wished he had too.

Again--the only documented fact in your tome is that AK left a bar during the early morning hours prior to a game scheduled to be played the next evening at USBank arena--the rest is complete conjecture on your part--source your story and I'll believe what you say--

Also, show me the history of AK acting in a racist manner in public and starting fights in public for NO REASON--none of this fits with his behavior while coaching in Cincinnati...

Show me where I implied Andy did anything Racist in his time at Cincy. I don't know where you got that in my replies earlier. Maybe you took a part of someone else's reply and added mine to it. I just implied earlier that Andy made a big, stupid mistake in drinking in another bar besides the hotel's and the cabbie couldnt legally drive him and his cohorts without them all having seat belts on. A booster friend was told by different ones in the Athletic office that Andy used to have a very short temper when he was working here. I didnt see it but then again, I didnt see him getting arrested at 0245 or later in the morning outside a bar or hotel. The cincinnati police did that and evidently the media found out about it. Same as you and I. Andy made a horrible possibly life changing decision that early morning and he's going to have to deal with it. If you think he won't, well let me sell you the Brentspence Bridge.

(12-28-2008 04:24 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  Show me where I implied Andy did anything Racist in his time at Cincy. I don't know where you got that in my replies earlier. Maybe you took a part of someone else's reply and added mine to it. I just implied earlier that Andy made a big, stupid mistake in drinking in another bar besides the hotel's and the cabbie couldn’t legally drive him and his cohorts without them all having seat belts on. A booster friend was told by different ones in the Athletic office that Andy used to have a very short temper when he was working here. I didnt see it but then again, I didnt see him getting arrested at 0245 or later in the morning outside a bar or hotel. The cincinnati police did that and evidently the media found out about it. Same as you and I. Andy made a horrible possibly life changing decision that early morning and he's going to have to deal with it. If you think he won't, well let me sell you the Brentspence Bridge.

Conjecture, conjecture, conjecture. Good thing we can't throw people in jail for conjecture--although perhaps you wish we could.

I might also ask if the Cincinnati police there at the time of the "incident"? Or are they going on eyewitness testimony?

You weren't there.

I wasn't there.

The police are going on conflicting testimony..

Did they perform a breathalyzer?

Nope...

Here is the report:

ESPN.com Wrote:CINCINNATI -- Police arrested Mississippi men's basketball coach Andy Kennedy early Thursday after a cab driver said the coach punched him while calling him "bin Laden" and other racial insults.

Nothing in there about AK being legally drunk--other than the cabby’s testimony.

But go ahead--crucify him without evidence simply because you hate Bob Huggins--

I'll give him the benefit of a trial before passing judgment.

(12-28-2008 11:28 PM)converrl Wrote:  

(12-28-2008 04:24 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  Show me where I implied Andy did anything Racist in his time at Cincy. I don't know where you got that in my replies earlier. Maybe you took a part of someone else's reply and added mine to it. I just implied earlier that Andy made a big, stupid mistake in drinking in another bar besides the hotel's and the cabbie couldn’t legally drive him and his cohorts without them all having seat belts on. A booster friend was told by different ones in the Athletic office that Andy used to have a very short temper when he was working here. I didnt see it but then again, I didnt see him getting arrested at 0245 or later in the morning outside a bar or hotel. The cincinnati police did that and evidently the media found out about it. Same as you and I. Andy made a horrible possibly life changing decision that early morning and he's going to have to deal with it. If you think he won't, well let me sell you the Brentspence Bridge.

Conjecture, conjecture, conjecture. Good thing we can't throw people in jail for conjecture--although perhaps you wish we could.

I might also ask if the Cincinnati police there at the time of the "incident"? Or are they going on eyewitness testimony?

You weren't there.

I wasn't there.

The police are going on conflicting testimony..

Did they perform a breathalyzer?

Nope...

Here is the report:

ESPN.com Wrote:CINCINNATI -- Police arrested Mississippi men's basketball coach Andy Kennedy early Thursday after a cab driver said the coach punched him while calling him "bin Laden" and other racial insults.

Nothing in there about AK being legally drunk--other than the cabby’s testimony.

But go ahead--crucify him without evidence simply because you hate Bob Huggins--

I'll give him the benefit of a trial before passing judgment.

I didn't crucify Andy Kennedy. I just believe that if he had stayed in his own hotel and drank in it's bar, he wouldn't have been facing the HEAT now. Also, he should have called his wife and told her the news before she heard it from the other coaches wives. Bad Judgement on his part. Simple solution...Stay inside their own hotel and nobody gets in trouble.

(12-29-2008 07:11 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  I didn't crucify Andy Kennedy.

Yes, you did.

(12-29-2008 10:37 PM)converrl Wrote:  

(12-29-2008 07:11 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  I didn't crucify Andy Kennedy.

Yes, you did.

well, then...let me say this then " GIVE US BARRABAS !!!!!!!"

(12-30-2008 12:51 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  well, then...let me say this then " GIVE US BARRABAS !!!!!!!"

Mick Cronin is Barrabas? Or is Nancy Barrabas? Or are the alumni Barrabas?

Incidentally, Barrabas was a thief who was favored by the masses over a Savior who went against the current power structure...To fill out the analogy, I would think Nancy was the Roman Emperor, Goin was Pilate, Cronin...would be Barrabas, and Huggins would be....well, you can probably guess....

BTW, by some accounts, "you know who" rose from the dead to greater glory and Barrabas was buried in a pauper's grave feeling unworthy of the favor granted him...

We'll see how well that analogy fits...

(12-30-2008 06:34 PM)converrl Wrote:  

(12-30-2008 12:51 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  well, then...let me say this then " GIVE US BARRABAS !!!!!!!"

Mick Cronin is Barrabas? Or is Nancy Barrabas? Or are the alumni Barrabas?

Incidentally, Barrabas was a thief who was favored by the masses over a Savior who went against the current power structure...To fill out the analogy, I would think Nancy was the Roman Emperor, Goin was Pilate, Cronin...would be Barrabas, and Huggins would be....well, you can probably guess....

BTW, by some accounts, "you know who" rose from the dead to greater glory and Barrabas was buried in a pauper's grave feeling unworthy of the favor granted him...

We'll see how well that analogy fits...

AMEN...
Barrabas became the first person to have Jesus die and pay for their sins. He died willingly, obediently for Barrabas and also for US. Sure glad he loved us so much that he did that for us. Barrabas did not deserve to be freed and neither did we. Isn't that wonderful?

Happy NEW YEAR to you and your family.
GO BEARCATS !!!!!!!!!!

(12-30-2008 06:34 PM)converrl Wrote:  

(12-30-2008 12:51 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  well, then...let me say this then " GIVE US BARRABAS !!!!!!!"

Mick Cronin is Barrabas? Or is Nancy Barrabas? Or are the alumni Barrabas?

Incidentally, Barrabas was a thief who was favored by the masses over a Savior who went against the current power structure...To fill out the analogy, I would think Nancy was the Roman Emperor, Goin was Pilate, Cronin...would be Barrabas, and Huggins would be....well, you can probably guess....

BTW, by some accounts, "you know who" rose from the dead to greater glory and Barrabas was buried in a pauper's grave feeling unworthy of the favor granted him...

We'll see how well that analogy fits...

Converrl & Bearcat54,
That was a very funny exchange it made me laugh. After reading that "analogy".....I am a very good doodler so too speak, I am almost tempted to sketch that out. I would feel almost dirty though in doing it, kind of hard for me to picture Huggs as my lord. ;-)

gregg

quote='bearcat54' pid='3859441' dateline='1230762325']

(12-30-2008 06:34 PM)converrl Wrote:  

(12-30-2008 12:51 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  well, then...let me say this then " GIVE US BARRABAS !!!!!!!"

Mick Cronin is Barrabas? Or is Nancy Barrabas? Or are the alumni Barrabas?

Incidentally, Barrabas was a thief who was favored by the masses over a Savior who went against the current power structure...To fill out the analogy, I would think Nancy was the Roman Emperor, Goin was Pilate, Cronin...would be Barrabas, and Huggins would be....well, you can probably guess....

BTW, by some accounts, "you know who" rose from the dead to greater glory and Barrabas was buried in a pauper's grave feeling unworthy of the favor granted him...

We'll see how well that analogy fits...

AMEN...
Barrabas became the first person to have Jesus die and pay for their sins. He died willingly, obediently for Barrabas and also for US. Sure glad he loved us so much that he did that for us. Barrabas did not deserve to be freed and neither did we. Isn't that wonderful?

Happy NEW YEAR to you and your family.
GO BEARCATS !!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

You go Bearcat54
Can we get an amen brother?? And they all
:ugaexams: