Todd Graham has proved to not only be a better coach (bringing in Malzahn and his version of the no huddle spread offense) but a better recruiter than Kragthorpe. Unlike Jurich, TU Admistration decided basically to make its head coach one of its own....although Graham was at Rice, TU officials considered him one of their own since Graham was DC for four years before going to Rice.

Kragthorpe has 15 verbals according to Rivals, which inlcudes five 3-Star recruits.
http://louisville.rivals.com/commitlist.asp

Graham has 20 verbals according to Rivals, which includes one 4-Star player plus 10 3-Star players.
http://tulsa.rivals.com/commitlist.asp

I think Rivals understates the quality of TU verbals. TU makes many early offers and has lost about 6 verbals in each of the last two years. All of them jumped from two stars to three stars or from three stars to four stars when they decommitted from TU, generally to a BCS school.

Todd Graham announced, when he took over at Tulsa, that TU would seek high quality football players. He has delivered on that promise. Here is a list of Graham's recruits plus transfers from last year and this year:
http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=326575

My thanks to Jurich for taking Kragthorpe off our hands. With the benefit of hindsight, it was like the ordeal of Southern Miss letting go of Jeff Bower and taking a chance with a different coach. USM agonized/agonizes over that decision....TU did not have to agonize thanks to Jurich. And TU is much better off today because of Jurich.

TU is definitely BCS bound. The only question is which conference are you going to. East or West?

Not sure where you are going with this. UL fans feel bad enough about Kragthorpe without having to hear about it from Tulsa fans.

If UL fans consider this post a flame, then I'll oblige them on it.

(12-23-2008 12:34 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  TU is definitely BCS bound. The only question is which conference are you going to. East or West?

A student enrollment of 4,300 students insures that Tulsa will never be invited to an established BCS conference. My hope is that CUSA will continue to improve and be more of a player on the national scene.

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(12-23-2008 12:34 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Not sure where you are going with this. UL fans feel bad enough about Kragthorpe without having to hear about it from Tulsa fans.

If UL fans consider this post a flame, then I'll oblige them on it.

I click thru several conference boards and don't flame on any of them (excluding MWC), including this one. Perhaps my post can be considered a flame of Jurich and Kragthorpe. But the lesson learned is hire off your own staff....Boise State being the primary example who is now on their third coach...while the first two tha left, one got fired at Arizona State and the other still struggles at Colorado.

My feelings toward Kragthorpe is probably like West Virginia fans feelings towards Rodriquez, their former coach....but not really. I think most TU fans still wonder why Kragthorpe chose to leave when he kept saying he found the ideal job. Both WVa and Tulsa are currently walking similar paths....and WVa's situation is like Tulsa....both schools stayed "inside" their families for their new coach. And both TU and WVa are experiencing success while UL is not.

Also, I have a lot of interest in the Big East. Current TU coaches Todd Graham and Co-Offensive Coordinator Herb Hand come off the West Virginia staff. TU played UL and CIncy regularly in the old Mizz Valley. And, of course, there is Kragthorpe...who turned down interviews with North Carolina and Colorado....and declined a $1 million offer from Dallas Cowboys because Kragthorpe stated Tulsa had everything he wanted as a coach and human being....but, Kragthorpe, along with Jurich, made a tragic decision that will haunt both.

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(12-23-2008 12:34 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Not sure where you are going with this. UL fans feel bad enough about Kragthorpe without having to hear about it from Tulsa fans.

If UL fans consider this post a flame, then I'll oblige them on it.

I click thru several conference boards and don't flame on any of them (excluding MWC), including this one. Perhaps my post can be considered a flame of Jurich and Kragthorpe. But the lesson learned is hire off your own staff....Boise State being the primary example who is now on their third coach...while the first two tha left, one got fired at Arizona State and the other still struggles at Colorado.

My feelings toward Kragthorpe is probably like West Virginia fans feelings towards Rodriquez, their former coach....but not really. I think most TU fans still wonder why Kragthorpe chose to leave when he kept saying he found the ideal job. Both WVa and Tulsa are currently walking similar paths....and WVa's situation is like Tulsa....both schools stayed "inside" their families for their new coach. And both TU and WVa are experiencing success while UL is not.

Also, I have a lot of interest in the Big East. Current TU coaches Todd Graham and Co-Offensive Coordinator Herb Hand come off the West Virginia staff. TU played UL and CIncy regularly in the old Mizz Valley. And, of course, there is Kragthorpe...who turned down interviews with North Carolina and Colorado....and declined a $1 million offer from Dallas Cowboys because Kragthorpe stated Tulsa had everything he wanted as a coach and human being....but, Kragthorpe, along with Jurich, made a tragic decision that will haunt both.

If a post similar to this were posted on the C-USA board it would be trashed and then the moderators would, rightfully, move it to the Smack Board. So I think this should be moved to the smack board. On a side note, I think Graham and Tulsa got exposed as frauds anyway. A terrible Arkansas team took you out to the woodshed. That speaks volumes.

(12-23-2008 12:48 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(12-23-2008 12:34 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  TU is definitely BCS bound. The only question is which conference are you going to. East or West?

A student enrollment of 4,300 students insures that Tulsa will never be invited to an established BCS conference.

Ah...believe the first person who responded was just making a joke and wasn't serious. (West or East Conference?)

No duh Tallgrass.

We were trying to tell you this ever since halfway through the 2007 season when we sensed something wasn't right and we had a lemon, but you and other Tulsa fans kept telling us Krag really was a great coach.

Good to see you finally believe us.

(12-23-2008 08:00 PM)CardHouse Wrote:  No duh Tallgrass.

We were trying to tell you this ever since halfway through the 2007 season when we sensed something wasn't right and we had a lemon, but you and other Tulsa fans kept telling us Krag really was a great coach.

Good to see you finally believe us.

No Sh!t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell I called it after the MTSU game in 2007.

Actually, I think the first glimmer came in the Murray St. Game when they marched right down the field and scored a td, though UL shut them down after that so, yeah, it didn't become really apparent until MTSU.

That's ok Tallgass, what's done is done, Kragger has Kragged the Cards program and will get his walking papers in a yr or 2 ... I hope.

Thanks for the offer BJ, but I enjoy flame wars However, if you feel you have to move it, then do what you have to do.

Tallgrass Wrote:But the lesson learned is hire off your own staff.

Urban Meyer - Florida
Pete Caroll - USC
Nick Saban - Alabama
Turner Gill - Buffalo
Les Miles - LSU
Jim Tresell - OSU
Frank Beamer - Virginia Tech
Skip Holtz - ECU
Brian Kelly - UC
Greg Schiano - Rutgers
Bobby Petrino - (when he was at Louisville)
etc.

The lesson isn't that you should hire off your own staff, the lesson is that you should hire a good coach and one that fits your program.

Though some will disagree with me, I don't think Kragthorpe is a bad coach (turning Tulsa around is an impressive feat IMO). With that said, however, I don't think Kragthorpe is a BCS quality coach or a good fit for the Louisville program. His style of discipline, life philosophy, PR strategy, etc doesn't mesh well with the players or the fanbase.

(12-23-2008 12:34 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  TU is definitely BCS bound. The only question is which conference are you going to. East or West?

they are going nowhere.. the big 12 nor the pac 10 are not expanding any time soon..

I think there's a bit more talent around Tulsa too. Texas is a recruiting hotbed, and Tulsa ain't that far from home in the minds of the Texas kids. That gives Tulsa a leg up on Louisville in one aspect.

However, UofL is in a BCS conference, which should give them an advantage. I think Krag is a decent coach, but he may have been elevated to his level of incompetence. I doubt his teams will ever contend for The BEast, since UofL has continually lost ground to WVU, Pitt, Rutgers, USF, UConn, and UC during his tenure. The Cards may start losing ground to Syracuse shortly, and unless the Cards make a dramatic turn-around, which I don't see happening, I think his days in Louisville are numbered. The fanbase is too angry to put up with much more losing...

(12-23-2008 12:48 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(12-23-2008 12:34 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Not sure where you are going with this. UL fans feel bad enough about Kragthorpe without having to hear about it from Tulsa fans.

If UL fans consider this post a flame, then I'll oblige them on it.

I click thru several conference boards and don't flame on any of them (excluding MWC), including this one. Perhaps my post can be considered a flame of Jurich and Kragthorpe. But the lesson learned is hire off your own staff....Boise State being the primary example who is now on their third coach...while the first two tha left, one got fired at Arizona State and the other still struggles at Colorado.

My feelings toward Kragthorpe is probably like West Virginia fans feelings towards Rodriquez, their former coach....but not really. I think most TU fans still wonder why Kragthorpe chose to leave when he kept saying he found the ideal job. Both WVa and Tulsa are currently walking similar paths....and WVa's situation is like Tulsa....both schools stayed "inside" their families for their new coach. And both TU and WVa are experiencing success while UL is not.

Also, I have a lot of interest in the Big East. Current TU coaches Todd Graham and Co-Offensive Coordinator Herb Hand come off the West Virginia staff. TU played UL and CIncy regularly in the old Mizz Valley. And, of course, there is Kragthorpe...who turned down interviews with North Carolina and Colorado....and declined a $1 million offer from Dallas Cowboys because Kragthorpe stated Tulsa had everything he wanted as a coach and human being....but, Kragthorpe, along with Jurich, made a tragic decision that will haunt both.

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No prob Tallgrass. The UL fans have spoken, and they're fine with it.
And I guess no one can argue that so far, the "buddies" method of hire is looking shaky.

(12-27-2008 10:58 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I think there's a bit more talent around Tulsa too. Texas is a recruiting hotbed, and Tulsa ain't that far from home in the minds of the Texas kids. That gives Tulsa a leg up on Louisville in one aspect.

However, UofL is in a BCS conference, which should give them an advantage. I think Krag is a decent coach, but he may have been elevated to his level of incompetence. I doubt his teams will ever contend for The BEast, since UofL has continually lost ground to WVU, Pitt, Rutgers, USF, UConn, and UC during his tenure. The Cards may start losing ground to Syracuse shortly, and unless the Cards make a dramatic turn-around, which I don't see happening, I think his days in Louisville are numbered. The fanbase is too angry to put up with much more losing...

Bit according to Scout.com team recruiting for 2008-2009 we are 7th in recruiting in a 8 team league. Yet according to "our" AD Tom Jurich we are building it the "right way".