The best move for the conference is for either Villanova or Georgetown to step up their football programs. But I realize that's a pipe dream. Their focus is basketball...

MichaelSavage Wrote:Football-only members don't work, as Temple demonstrated.

Neither do basketball-only members, as your 8 Catholic parasites demonstrate.

buckaineer Wrote:Memphis has one of the best bb programs in the nation. I seriously doubt they want to leave that behind in some also ran conference.

Our AD has stated publicly that we WOULD accept football-only membership in the BE. From your point of view, it wouild be like having a baked potato without the steak.

Quote:Frankly there is no eveidence Memphis is better than the current Syracuse program on the football field.

Don't know anything about Syracuse, but I am confident Tiger football can hold it's own in the Big East.

Gray Avenger Wrote:

MichaelSavage Wrote:Football-only members don't work, as Temple demonstrated.

Neither do basketball-only members, as your 8 Catholic parasites demonstrate.

The Big East TV contract laughs at you.

Gray Avenger Wrote:

MichaelSavage Wrote:Football-only members don't work, as Temple demonstrated.

Neither do basketball-only members, as your 8 Catholic parasites demonstrate.

With all due respect, 4 of those 8 "parasites" were original members of the Big East in 1979 while a 5th (Villanova) joined a year after in 1980. I've been on the record as stating that I like Memphis more than any other expansion candidate (even though I don't necessarily believe that expansion and/or split would do the Big East any good), but anyone that has the attitude that schools that were members of the Big East from the very start are "parasites" is going to put any prospects of an invite from the conference in jeopardy down the road. There might be reasonable disagreements about what the Big East should do from this point forward, but no one should disrespect the long history of its members.

I agree with you on that one. I wouldnt cal any of the basketball schools "parasites" they all have something to give and I respect that. I do think that this is not 1979 and what those schools have to give in terms of improving and growing the conference has changed.
I think the BE needs to change in order to grow in the 21st century

Frank the Tank Wrote:

Gray Avenger Wrote:

MichaelSavage Wrote:Football-only members don't work, as Temple demonstrated.

Neither do basketball-only members, as your 8 Catholic parasites demonstrate.

With all due respect, 4 of those 8 "parasites" were original members of the Big East in 1979 while a 5th (Villanova) joined a year after in 1980. I've been on the record as stating that I like Memphis more than any other expansion candidate (even though I don't necessarily believe that expansion and/or split would do the Big East any good), but anyone that has the attitude that schools that were members of the Big East from the very start are "parasites" is going to put any prospects of an invite from the conference in jeopardy down the road. There might be reasonable disagreements about what the Big East should do from this point forward, but no one should disrespect the long history of its members.

Frank, this Gray Avenger guy seems to be a glutton for punishment. Everytime he comes to our board he insults the basketball schools by using this term and he continually gets smacked down by everyone for it, yet he still keeps coming back for more.

cuseroc Wrote:Frank, this Gray Avenger guy seems to be a glutton for punishment. Everytime he comes to our board he insults the basketball schools by using this term and he continually gets smacked down by everyone for it, yet he still keeps coming back for more.

That is because I speak my convictions instead of trying to tell you what you want to hear. I think that the Big East needs to cut the umbilical cord and become the great all-sports conference it can be.

The new comish is from Providence which is bad because pf his ties to the school.
What really needs to happen is Providence College needs to be kicked out of the BE so we can add a football school will now not happen because of the new comish

Cubanbull Wrote:I wouldn't call any of the basketball schools "parasites"; they all have something to give and I respect that. I do think that this is not 1979 and what those schools have to give in terms of improving and growing the conference has changed.

I agree with this post. I don't consider Georgetown, Villanova, or Marquette to be "parasites", namely because they have excellent basketball teams that boost the strength of the conference. They also provide access to large TV markets (DC, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee) which helps the conference sign larger TV contracts for basketball.

I also don't consider Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, or DePaul to be parasites, as they still offer TV markets for basketball. So even though they have not had much success on the court, they are still offering the conference something in return. Notre Dame, imo, is the only true parasite in the conference because they could aid the conference tremendously in football (signing fair home-and-home agreements with ALL conference members instead of just a select few, sharing football revenue with other Big East members, etc) but choose not to.

Now, how valuable is a Seton Hall or Saint John's (especially given the overlap with Rutgers) compared to a Memphis (adds a bowl, top notch basketball, adds football)? IMO, Memphis is far more valuable when compared to any of the basketball schools. The problem lies in the fact that the "basketball only" schools can't be treated on an individual basis. Their shared religion, identities, histories, and goals means that any conference assessment must consider them as one individual unit. In other words, to add Memphis, you'd have to add another basketball school or jettison the entire "basketball only" side of the conference. So then the question becomes, is adding Memphis and losing the 8 basketball schools (good and bad ones) more beneficial than keeping the 8 basketball schools in the conference?

Im not sure I agree with that assesment. I think if the 8 football schools said. We are moving on and adding Memphis as an all sports member and we would like Marquette,Villanova and Georgetown to come along. I have a feeling those three would go for it because they know that their success in big time basketball will be tied to the football schools not a basketball only league.
So now you would have a league of:
Cincinnati, UConn,Syracuse,Pitt,USF,Rutgers,West Virginia,Louisville,Memphis,Georgetown,Marquete and Villanova.
9 football and 12 all sports. That leaves room for future expansion if needed.
The question is will anyone have the balls to take the initiative to move forward knowing that you are screwing DePaul,Providence,Seton Hall and St Johns.

Holy crap! I dont even know where to beging to respond to some of these posts.I will try though
Why would the FB teams "breakaway" and ask gtown nova and maquette to go with them? If a hyrbrid doesnt work, like so many people claim it doesnt, what would be the point of this hybrid? Why would these 3 agree to be in a conference where their voice didnt matter as much as the rest?
NOBODY is being kicked out of the BE to be repalced by Memphis! (or any other school)
Heres why:
ST JOHNS: founding member, NYC market awesome tradition. Believe it or not SJU is still one of the winningest programs of all time
PROVIDENCE: founding member, strong tradition. PRovidence/Boston tv mkt. (many alumni live in boston metro)Is in the middle of major upgrades to its facilities. In the top 45 nationally in terms of overall winning percentage.(its true)
NOTRE DAME: is any explanation needed? Probably one of the top 3 most marketable names in all of college sports.
DEPAUL: Chicago mkt, bb tradition. good travel partner for MU
SETON HALL: founding member, NYC mkt. Has great new arena, bb tradition
Granted some of these programs are in a downward phase but they can rebound(no pun intended) The 8 BB focused schools are a package deal

Lets be honest here, the BE is a BB league.(so is the acc sorry to say) Every program's BB squad(except USF) has a much better rep and is more nationally competitive than its FB program. WVU may be the closest to having more balance. Adding another team might be good for scheduling, but unless its someone like ND or PSU would it really make the BE stronger? No matter what happens the BE will NEVER have the rep in FB that the SEC, B12 and B10 currently have.

Its NOt the hybrid that is the problem is the current set up that prevents any football moves. No one is saying make the BE into SEC or Big10 but it certaintly can get better in football, As great as our basketball is and as weak as football is you figure basketball should be bringing HUGE amounts of money but is not and thats because football is where the money is at.
As I said this is NOT 1979 when the conference eas established as a BASKETBALL conference. Times change and if you dont change with it you set yourself to failure.
Yes some of those schools have great winning traditions but times have changed. Army was a football powe and great tradition but what is it now?
Explain to me how is`it that the BEST basketball conference in the country with all those markets cannot get TV contracts that could rival those of the football conferences?

Cubanbull Wrote:Once again adding Memphis as a FOOTBALL-ONLY member does not affect the basketball side whatsoever. Memphis would add another bowl and bring a team that while not great is not as bad as Syracuse and would benefit from BCS label. It adds another area for BE football and another conference game for all involved.
So while NOT strengthening the league right away, it would not weaken it and it would benefit TV,Bowls deals and Memphis would improve.
Adding Memphis would NOT affect the BE's reputation because in reality noone outhere that would immediately do that is available or will be available. So Memphis can improve as the rest of the conference does also

Much slower. The BCS label, WV and Pitt's history can only drag the remaining members along so much.
You're talking about taking an already weak TV contract and bowl lineup and splitting it up even further. That won't help any one.
You can't have you cake and eat it too if the cake is still baking in the oven!

Cubanbull Wrote:Its NOt the hybrid that is the problem is the current set up that prevents any football moves. No one is saying make the BE into SEC or Big10 but it certaintly can get better in football, As great as our basketball is and as weak as football is you figure basketball should be bringing HUGE amounts of money but is not and thats because football is where the money is at.
As I said this is NOT 1979 when the conference eas established as a BASKETBALL conference. Times change and if you dont change with it you set yourself to failure.
Yes some of those schools have great winning traditions but times have changed. Army was a football powe and great tradition but what is it now?
Explain to me how is`it that the BEST basketball conference in the country with all those markets cannot get TV contracts that could rival those of the football conferences?

I agree the FB contracts are not the best, but would adding a 9th member really improve that? If it was a big name i think it would. Unfortunately all the big time programs already have a home. (other than the IRISH). I honestly think the strength of the BB helps the FB league more than if they were split. Others may disagree
sidenote: I dont get what Army's problem is. They have a very loyal fan base, games almost always sold out. Great place to watch a game. If Navy and Air Force can be, at the very least, competitive and bowl eligible there is no reason why Army can't as well. If that program rose to the level of Navy or Air Force they would be a great FB only member in the BE (location, fan base, marketing potential)

gosports1 Wrote:Adding another team might be good for scheduling, but unless its someone like ND or PSU would it really make the BE stronger? No matter what happens the BE will NEVER have the rep in FB that the SEC, B12 and B10 currently have.

"stronger" is a matter of how you look at things. If BE football had more teams, there would be more opportunity for televised games=more money and exposure for the league. There would be more bowl games potentially -and if the right candidate were selected (i.e. Memphis with the Liberty) then the bowl payouts might be more lucrative. If a team or teams that have a decent fanbase were added, then the league might be of more interest to more and better bowls.

If there were other teams added now and another change occurred down the road in membership --the league would be more stable then if they have to go into panic mode after the fact.

I don't think anyone thinks that the BE will have the rep of the Big Ten or SEC, but that doesn't mean the BE can't make itself as strong and stable as possible. There is room now to better the football side.

gosports1 Wrote:

Cubanbull Wrote:Its NOt the hybrid that is the problem is the current set up that prevents any football moves. No one is saying make the BE into SEC or Big10 but it certaintly can get better in football, As great as our basketball is and as weak as football is you figure basketball should be bringing HUGE amounts of money but is not and thats because football is where the money is at.
As I said this is NOT 1979 when the conference eas established as a BASKETBALL conference. Times change and if you dont change with it you set yourself to failure.
Yes some of those schools have great winning traditions but times have changed. Army was a football powe and great tradition but what is it now?
Explain to me how is`it that the BEST basketball conference in the country with all those markets cannot get TV contracts that could rival those of the football conferences?

I agree the FB contracts are not the best, but would adding a 9th member really improve that? If it was a big name i think it would. Unfortunately all the big time programs already have a home. (other than the IRISH). I honestly think the strength of the BB helps the FB league more than if they were split. Others may disagree
sidenote: I dont get what Army's problem is. They have a very loyal fan base, games almost always sold out. Great place to watch a game. If Navy and Air Force can be, at the very least, competitive and bowl eligible there is no reason why Army can't as well. If that program rose to the level of Navy or Air Force they would be a great FB only member in the BE (location, fan base, marketing potential)

I think that waiting for that BIG name Notre Dame, Penn State to come is a HUGE mistake for the Big East. Its like not dating anyone waiting for Angelina Jolie to drop whats his ame and come be with you. Its not going to happen and keeps you from moving to possible great choices in the long run.
Adding Memphis as a football member opens up a new area for the BE, so while I dont think the TV contract will jump greatly at the begiining it also wouldnt be a huge drop in per member money. It does bring a bowl that would be among the top two pay bowls in our line up and it also helps the league not having to schedule a 1-1 deal with SBC or MAC to have an extra nonconference game.
So overall is pretty even deal in my eyes except you give another team in the BE a chance to improve and be ranked.
I do think that right now a hybrid is probably best bet since there is no one outhere that cold make up for the losses of Gtown,Marquette, Villanova or Notre dame.
But I would like to see a 9th member for football to help that side