Okay. I talked to an associate AD, an assistant coach, and just for the heck of it a cute female secretary. They all are saying that the Gator Bowl does still have a two-win rule but the Sun Bowl does not. Even worse is that they said the Sun Bowl can take a 6-6 Notre Dame for some reason.

I guess that means a 7-5 Notre Dame can beat out a 9-3 Big East runner-up for the Gator Bowl but not a 10-2 team. None of them seemed to know if a 6-6 Notre Dame can be selected over an 8-4 Big East runner-up. It only makes sense that they could, though, based on the Sun Bowl thing.

What this means is ... if the Big East runner-up is 10-2 ... and Notre Dame is 7-5 ... the Gator Bowl can't take Notre Dame ... so the Gator Bowl would take a Big 12 team instead ... then the Sun Bowl would grab Notre Dame ... and the 10-2 Big East runner-up would drop to the Meineke Bowl.

Realistically though ... it is likely that the Big East runner-up is more likely to be 9-3 ... meaning that the Gator Bowl would take a 7-5 Notre Dame instead ... forcing the Sun Bowl to take a Big 12 team ... and dropping the 9-3 Big East runner-up to the Meineke Bowl ... basically the same thing.

Now if Notre Dame is 6-6 ... and the Big East runner-up is 9-3 ... the Gator Bowl can't take Notre Dame ... so the Gator Bowl would take a Big 12 team instead ... then the Sun Bowl would grab Notre Dame ... and the 9-3 Big East runner-up would drop to the Meineke Bowl ... a repeat of above.

Then with Notre Dame at 6-6 ... and the Big East runner-up at 8-4 ... it seems like the Gator Bowl may be able to take Notre Dame ... forcing the Sun Bowl to take a Big 12 team ... and dropping the 8-4 Big East runner-up to the Meineke Bowl ... which is the same as the second scenario.

So, if Notre Dame goes 7-5, we need to hope the Cotton Bowl wants them for reasons of living in the past since it's the last game at the Fairgrounds before moving to Jerry World. That would also help us because it bumps all the SEC teams down and ensures us a foe in the Papa John's Bowl.

Otherwise, unless these guys made a mistake in what they told me, the Big East is screwed by a 7-5 Notre Dame and even by a 6-6 Notre Dame. Big blunder by the league office. They should have had the contracts written to prevent a 6-6 Notre Dame from jumping ahead of any Big East team.

It is also possible that the BE could have a 10-3 second-place team. If Pitt wins out, and UC otherwise wins out, that will be the case. Obviously, I'd prefer NOT for that to happen

It wouldn't matter much anyway... sounds as if the Gator would simply go B-12 this time around if it sensed a 10-3 second-place Cincy, and wait for ND in 2010.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Now if Notre Dame is 6-6 then the Sun Bowl would grab Notre Dame

That is the only part of your post that is incorrect. The Sun Bowl agreement does not have a "within X games" clause like the gator bowl has. However, because Notre Dame is considered part of the Big East conference for the Gator/Sun agreement, they would still need to finish 7-5 to take the Sun. Unlike the gator, a 7-5 ND could bump a 10-3 Big East team from the Sun.

Simply put, if Notre Dame gets to 7-5, then they will take one of the two bowls from the Big East. If they finish 6-6, they won't.

Just once I'd love to see The BEast tell one of these bowls to get stuffed - at a time when they really need one of us to play in the game. That would fix 'em...

To take this in a different direction, if you were Notre Dame and you finished 7-5, would it REALLY be in your best interests to take a Sun/Gator (or, for that matter, Cotton) Bowl bid and an almost certain loss instead of trying to get into a more winnable bowl game? Let's face it - the difference in the bowl payouts is probably not as great as the potential of getting an actual bowl win and building for the future. I know the whole "Notre Dame doesn't back down from anybody" mindset, but I just think they'd be better served going to something like the Motor City Bowl or something like that and getting that giant monkey off their backs.

Let's face it, if they go 7-5, get to the Gator and get pasted by Miami or Virginia Tech, won't you have to deal with 6 months of speculation about Weis?

USFFan

usffan Wrote:if they go 7-5, get to the Gator and get pasted by Miami or Virginia Tech,

How would that be any different from what they always do in the post-season?

UofL07 Wrote:

usffan Wrote:if they go 7-5, get to the Gator and get pasted by Miami or Virginia Tech,

How would that be any different from what they always do in the post-season?

That's exactly my point. Rather than repeating what they've done in the past by going to a bowl game that's over their heads, wouldn't they be better served as a program to go to a bowl game where they have more than a slim shot at winning? They could then build on that instead of it being more of the same...

USFFan

The Gator could select ACC school that futher down the pecking order. I'm sure nobody [Bowls & ACC] would mind if it sets the other ACC bowls up with better matchups. That's what I would do.
futher more it's pretty crazy you can't get straight anwser BE office. it's Nov 12th with ND at 5-4, youd think somebody would say, hey what's the contract say pertaining to ND. there getting bombarded with questions about Gator bowl from reporters & there not sure.

If I was the ACC, I wouldn't cooperate in allowing any bowl game to hand pick a conference patsy the Irish stand a chance against. It would further lower the profile of the ACC. I would fight that to my dying breath...

Bit, if I was you I'd be worried that my conf doesn't know the anwser to Gator bowl ?

usffan Wrote:That's exactly my point. Rather than repeating what they've done in the past by going to a bowl game that's over their heads, wouldn't they be better served as a program to go to a bowl game where they have more than a slim shot at winning?

Well, you have to keep a few things in mind:

1) To use a basketball analogy, the bowls and BCS are Dickie V and ND is Duke. No matter how terrible they are, no matter how much they embarass themselves on the field, no matter how undeserving they are, bowls and the BCS will always be there to boost ND. If you're ND, why care if you get embarassed in a bowl game? The media will simply talk about how great you'll be next year with that #1 recruiting class and great QB for half the offseason.

2) If you could show up to work, do nothing, and still cash paychecks without getting fired, wouldn't you consider that a sweet gig? Same thing applies to Notre Dame. They'll keep accepting bowls even if they get slaughtered because there are no apparent consequences for Notre Dame. They keep getting pay despite not accomplishing much if anything on the field and they keep getting invite despite not earning them. And even after they stink it up their bowl game/season, they still have an easy time recruiting. They basically have a win-win situation.

UofL07 Wrote:

usffan Wrote:That's exactly my point. Rather than repeating what they've done in the past by going to a bowl game that's over their heads, wouldn't they be better served as a program to go to a bowl game where they have more than a slim shot at winning?

Well, you have to keep a few things in mind:

1) To use a basketball analogy, the bowls and BCS are Dickie V and ND is Duke. No matter how terrible they are, no matter how much they embarass themselves on the field, no matter how undeserving they are, bowls and the BCS will always be there to boost ND. If you're ND, why care if you get embarassed in a bowl game? The media will simply talk about how great you'll be next year with that #1 recruiting class and great QB for half the offseason.

2) If you could show up to work, do nothing, and still cash paychecks without getting fired, wouldn't you consider that a sweet gig? Same thing applies to Notre Dame. They'll keep accepting bowls even if they get slaughtered because there are no apparent consequences for Notre Dame. They keep getting pay despite not accomplishing much if anything on the field and they keep getting invite despite not earning them. And even after they stink it up their bowl game/season, they still have an easy time recruiting. They basically have a win-win situation.

I guess this is where I disagree with you. Nothing with respect to college football is infinite, and that includes the deep pockets at Notre Dame. Continue losing and being mismatched in bowl games and they'll stop travelling in bulk to the games. Sure, some will show, but not the numbers with which Notre Dame is accustomed. How many times do you think they'll head to the Sugar or Fiesta Bowls to see their team get completely dismantled before they decide to stay home? They need some level of hope, and the Irish fans I know don't have any right now. Another blowout and it will get worse.

There's an expression about being pennywise and pound foolish. I think Notre Dame going to a higher payout bowl this year would be a perfect example of that.

USFFan

UofL07 Wrote:

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Now if Notre Dame is 6-6 then the Sun Bowl would grab Notre Dame

That is the only part of your post that is incorrect. The Sun Bowl agreement does not have a "within X games" clause like the gator bowl has. However, because Notre Dame is considered part of the Big East conference for the Gator/Sun agreement, they would still need to finish 7-5 to take the Sun. Unlike the gator, a 7-5 ND could bump a 10-3 Big East team from the Sun.

Simply put, if Notre Dame gets to 7-5, then they will take one of the two bowls from the Big East. If they finish 6-6, they won't.

So my contacts, people who actually work at Big East schools, do not know what they are talking about? Maybe they misspoke, but I doubt it, so I think maybe Notre Dame is considered a separate primary conference by the Gator and Sun Bowls, or something, reminiscent of the way Navy was automatically eligible for the Meineke Car Care Bowl with 6 wins a few years ago.

The contract language is probably vague in that area and, if one of those bowls chooses a 6-6 Notre Dame, there is nothing the Big East can do about it. What they told me is the Gator Bowl has a two-win rule but the Sun Bowl does not and they do not treat Notre Dame as a "member" of the Big East. This is something that needs to be fixed more clearly next time around.