TexanMark Wrote:I think the leadership of the Big East schools know more about Notre Dame's positive impacts than the common fan. I'm not ready to throw out the baby with the bath water. Notre Dame does bring some positives.

Agreed but I also think that those ties need to be reworked. Last time around ND had the upper hand. If ND wants to share bowl tie ins, then there must be some type of stipulations like the # of BE games it plays yearly and what record they must have to take the place of a BE team. an 8-4 ND should not be able to take the place of a 10-2 BE team.
Maybe the BE need to use ND to get better deals not only with Gator but with Cotton or someone like it

TerryD Wrote:touche' :)

The Notre Dame brand name carries alot of value. A real CFB fan knows the irish arent a part of the BE but the casual fan may not. If there a CBB fan(or any other sport other than hockey) and see ND named as a member of the BE they might make the association for FB(even if its wrong) Lets face it like it or not, true or not, when most people hear ND sports they think of FB. Even a loose association with a few BE FB teams helps. Not ideal but it is what is.

Although I don't like the ND agreement, I'd much rather see them as a partial member in this conference than a full member in the Big Ten.

Bearcat T Wrote:I don't think Navy and the Car Care Bowl Meineke or whatever are linked any longer.

That was a one-time shady under-the-table side deal made by the Meineke Car Care Bowl to get revenge on Mike Tranghese for trying to move Big East #3 into the Liberty Bowl. As long as our contract with them is iron-tight next time, things like the Navy slap-in-the-face will never happen again. The Meineke Car Care Bowl people acted like petulant little brats in that instance because Mike Tranghese had the unadulterated audacity to try improving the Big East's bowl situation, something a lot of short-sighted people never give him any credit for attempting.

panite Wrote:In the mean time Trained Goose negotiated the best packages that he could get with BB (the BE strength past and present) for TV, and got a better deal for the FB schools for TV.

Better? The BE only gets on the networks on Thurs. and Friday nights. Major important conference games such as WVU-UConn received 0 national coverage. There is NO BEF coverage on Saturdays at all now.

In the past BE footbal had multiple tv games on Saturdays at noon, 3:30 and sometimes even primetime games on the ESPN family of networks and even CBS for awhile. Now the BE gets zero--that's 0 coverage on Saturdays. Only the final week of the season will see BE games on and that's only because some conferences are done.

Think about that--all other conferences in the BCS are getting multiple games on ABC, ESPN, ESPN2 each weekend with each conference also getting Gameday coverage, and lots of talk up on the talking head shows. Meanwhile with this supposedly great Tranghese package, BE football is underpaid based on markets and wins, and gets 1 weekend of coverage to 15 or 16 weekends of multiple game coverage for all other conferences. This is a DISASTER for BE football.

ND is not what you people in the Big East think they are either. ND has become an afterthought. In the south, the butt of all jokes, and those days of 'America team" is something that appears in history books, only.
Respect is not use when describing ND. Maybe, that is why you dont get respect for your conference. ND took advantage over the Big East and blindsided goose fell for it. Face the facts, they tried this crap with the Big10 and ACC, who said all or nothing, and then waited until the ACC raid and then pounced on the Big East situation. This is the only choice they had. Notice, they didnt come to you first, by no means, you were convienant. They didnt want to be a part of the Big East when VT and Miami was in the Big East because they wouldnt have been the best program. Both of those schools were having more success than they were.
ND is not saving the Big East fb, but hindering it. No other conference would give ND what the Big East did and that is why you suffer from "lack of respect".Perception was an agruement when the new Big East was formed and that hasnt change. For a matter of fact, having them is what is causing alot of this. Outsiders make fun of you guys because they can steal a bowl bid from you, make it so easy for them to referr to you as bush league. That perception is nationwide, not just in the south. Many radio personal make a point to point that out.
It is truely ashame for this to happen to the Big East with the tradition that you have established. Trained Goose was willing to sell BE fb to the ACC, according to articles on this board, and then change his mind sold this conference soul to keep this hybrid going. I will remind the Big East fb schools of one thing; ND has never lived by the Golden Rule, do onto other as you would want done to you. Not very christian if you ask me.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

Bearcat T Wrote:I don't think Navy and the Car Care Bowl Meineke or whatever are linked any longer.

That was a one-time shady under-the-table side deal made by the Meineke Car Care Bowl to get revenge on Mike Tranghese for trying to move Big East #3 into the Liberty Bowl. As long as our contract with them is iron-tight next time, things like the Navy slap-in-the-face will never happen again. The Meineke Car Care Bowl people acted like petulant little brats in that instance because Mike Tranghese had the unadulterated audacity to try improving the Big East's bowl situation, something a lot of short-sighted people never give him any credit for attempting.

Dont bet on that. Bowl committees have the rights to do whatever they feel is in their best interest. It could happen again. If I am correct, you had an agreement when it happened.

It won't happen again. ND will be lucky to finish 7-5. My bet is more like 6-6. BC and USC are definite losses for ND. But you watch Navy or Syracuse beat the Irish. I'd love to see both beat the Irish, and have 'em end up 5-7, and not even qualify for a bowl game...

bitcruncher Wrote:It won't happen again. ND will be lucky to finish 7-5. My bet is more like 6-6. BC and USC are definite losses for ND. But you watch Navy or Syracuse beat the Irish. I'd love to see both beat the Irish, and have 'em end up 5-7, and not even qualify for a bowl game...

Bit, at 7-5, they could have steal this bowl. With Pitt and Cinn sitting at 6-2 and 6-3 with 4 conference games left, they could be within one game to steal this bowl. I like you would love to see them at 5-7. I dont think they will lose to BC either. I am not impressed with them at all.

After Louisville's appearance in 2006, the Big East signed a new 4 year contract with the Gator bowl. The contract stated that in two of the four years the bowl would take will take Big East teams or ND while the other two years would be filled with Big 12 teams. The contract also has a clause in it that states that Notre Dame may replace a Big East team in the Gator Bowl so long as they finish within 2 wins of the Big East #2. The Sun bowl will take whichever conference is not selected by the Gator.

The first year of the contract they took WVU, the second year they took Texas Tech. Let's say WVU takes the BCS bid this year, Pitt finishes at 8-4, and Notre Dame finishes at 6-6. According to our bowl contract a 6-6 Notre Dame team could replace an 8-4 Pitt team. A 6-6 Notre Dame team could not, however, replace a 9-3 Pitt team. If Notre Dame is not available, the Gator bowl could opt to take a Big 12 team over a Big East team this year. If they went this route, they would have to take a Big East team or ND in the final year.

If the Gator decides to take a Big 12 team this year, then our number two team/ND will be taken by the Sun bowl. However, the Sun bowl contract does not have a "within 2" clause in it for ND meaning 6-6 Notre Dame could replace a 10-2, 11-1, 9-3 Big East team.

Personally, I think that if the Gator can't take ND, they will opt for a Big 12 team this year and hold off to "hopefully" take Notre Dame in the last year of their contract. That means the Sun will pick between ND and the Big East and will end up taking Notre Dame so long as they are bowl eligible, even if it means bumping a second place BE team to the Meineke Car Care bowl.

The biggest problem with this arrangement if they continue it is that it only works when Notre Dame is bad/not bowl eligible. If Notre Dame gets back to being mediocre (i.e. 6-6, 7-5) and isn't gifted wrapped a BCS bowl every year, you could end up with a situation where ND could steal all four bids (both Gator and both Sun) and no Big East team would actually go to either bowl over the 4 year period.

Can the Big East send a team to the Sun Bowl if the Gator Bowl selects ND over a Big East team? I ask only because it shows the Big East/ND as one affiliate.

gdayre Wrote:Can the Big East send a team to the Sun Bowl if the Gator Bowl selects ND over a Big East team? I ask only because it shows the Big East/ND as one affiliate.

No. If the Gator chooses ND OR BE#2, the Sun gets B-12 #3. If the Gator goes with the B-12, the BE (no ND in that equation) goes to the Sun. In the case of the Gator, the BE and ND are essentially in the same selection pool.

Notre Dame's name is bigger than their football program.

USF benefited greatly last year when their 3-14 conf team hosted ND in the last regular season game of the year...as a season high home court crowd of almost 8,000 was filled with more ND fans than USF fans.

ND is a name-brand...and while most view it as "football only", that name helps bring in $$$$$ (tix sales and/or viewers) at many other non-football sporting events around the country.

Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick Wrote:If the Gator goes with the B-12, the BE (no ND in that equation) goes to the Sun. In the case of the Gator, the BE and ND are essentially in the same selection pool.

That is not correct. ND is pooled with the Big East for both the Gator and the Sun bowl.

http://www.bigeast.org/ViewArticle.dbml?...PSID=94740
"The Gator Bowl has the first selection at the conclusion of each season. During the four years of the deal, the BIG EAST (or Notre Dame) will send a team to both the Gator Bowl and the Sun Bowl twice."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Bowl
"The Brut Sun Bowl matches the Pac-10 Conference against either the Big 12 Conference, Big East Conference or the University of Notre Dame from 2006-2009. The rotating deal will feature a Big 12 school twice over the next four years and a Big East school or Notre Dame twice from 2006-2009."

KnightLight Wrote:Notre Dame's name is bigger than their football program.

USF benefited greatly last year when their 3-14 conf team hosted ND in the last regular season game of the year...as a season high home court crowd of almost 8,000 was filled with more ND fans than USF fans.

ND is a name-brand...and while most view it as "football only", that name helps bring in $$$$$ (tix sales and/or viewers) at many other non-football sporting events around the country.

Unless the game is against a big east fold, how does it benefit the Big East? none. Does the ND help the perception of the Big East? Heck NO. Does ND having a good season benefit the Big East? NO So knightland, to call ND brand name is right and you can add Nebraska and other to that group too. And like all name brands, something new and improves comes along to knock them out of the top spot. Until ND can win a few BCS games, they are a pay day nothing more.

Someone else pointed this out in a separate "let's kick ND out" thread, but how are we exactly defining whether ND is detrimental to the BE? For the 7 other Catholic non-football schools, their respective games with ND are effectively their Super Bowls - having ND in the conference is a monster deal to them in terms of TV exposure and at the gate. For Pitt, UConn, and Syracuse, their respective FB games with ND guarantee them at least one national TV appearance a year and a sellout crowd (even if it's at an off-campus venue), which is something that none of the other BE schools can provide. As a result, you have at least 10 BE schools that have a direct and tangible benefit from a relationship with ND that frankly goes beyond what any of the other BE schools can offer. Is 10 out of 15 schools that have a direct benefit mean that you can actually claim that they are "leaching" off the conference? Does the presence of Cincinnati, Louisville, and the other BE schools really offer more to those 10 schools than ND? When 10 out of 15 teams essentially look at their annual meeting with ND as the biggest date on the calendar that provides them with more TV exposure and gate receipts than any other game all year, it's (1) disingenuous to say that they are detrimental to the conference, no matter what you think of them personally and (2) easy to see why every BE school president and AD completely laughs off these message board discussions about supposedly "sending a message to ND" because they know exactly where their bread is buttered.

gdayre Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:It won't happen again. ND will be lucky to finish 7-5. My bet is more like 6-6. BC and USC are definite losses for ND. But you watch Navy or Syracuse beat the Irish. I'd love to see both beat the Irish, and have 'em end up 5-7, and not even qualify for a bowl game...

Bit, at 7-5, they could have steal this bowl. With Pitt and Cinn sitting at 6-2 and 6-3 with 4 conference games left, they could be within one game to steal this bowl. I like you would love to see them at 5-7. I dont think they will lose to BC either. I am not impressed with them at all.

The Gator Bowl has NEVER taken a 7-5 team...

BC always plays their best against ND...

Frank the Tank Wrote:Someone else pointed this out in a separate "let's kick ND out" thread, but how are we exactly defining whether ND is detrimental to the BE? For the 7 other Catholic non-football schools, their respective games with ND are effectively their Super Bowls - having ND in the conference is a monster deal to them in terms of TV exposure and at the gate. For Pitt, UConn, and Syracuse, their respective FB games with ND guarantee them at least one national TV appearance a year and a sellout crowd (even if it's at an off-campus venue), which is something that none of the other BE schools can provide. As a result, you have at least 10 BE schools that have a direct and tangible benefit from a relationship with ND that frankly goes beyond what any of the other BE schools can offer. Is 10 out of 15 schools that have a direct benefit mean that you can actually claim that they are "leaching" off the conference? Does the presence of Cincinnati, Louisville, and the other BE schools really offer more to those 10 schools than ND? When 10 out of 15 teams essentially look at their annual meeting with ND as the biggest date on the calendar that provides them with more TV exposure and gate receipts than any other game all year, it's (1) disingenuous to say that they are detrimental to the conference, no matter what you think of them personally and (2) easy to see why every BE school president and AD completely laughs off these message board discussions about supposedly "sending a message to ND" because they know exactly where their bread is buttered.

How many games did the Big East non fb games did you see on TV? Most of the games with ND involved in bb was against the fb schools not so many against the non fb playing schools. You sound funny talking about ND when you have no knowledge what they are thinking or saying unless you have been given priviledge to that. So. how many of those schools president's shared what their thoughts are about ND? A big 10 person telling people what the Big East thinks is laughable. NO disrespect is intended. Isnt the big 10 waiting on ND to join? What has ND done in bb lately or before, can you honestly compare to UConn, Syracuse, Lousiville and Cinn ? Now I understand waiting on ND to join and coming to their defense is expected but really. ND bb didnt have a tv contract like their fb nor do they have that kinda following either. Nd isnt even considering elite in bb . If anything, it is the other way around. If it wasnt there association with the Big East, we would never hear about them at all. Hell, Georgetown is the best of the non fb playing schools and they have far better recognition that ND has. Dont get ND fb reputation confuse with their bb program.

Quote:Personally, I think that if the Gator can't take ND, they will opt for a Big 12 team this year and hold off to "hopefully" take Notre Dame in the last year of their contract.

Same here, but not only for the chance at Notre Dame next year.

The Big XII selection is going to be a pretty good team, anybody from a pool of Texas, Texas Tech, Missouri, Oklahoma, or Oklahoma State. Even if the Big XII gets two in the BCS (pretty good shot at that with four teams in the top 14) the Big XII teams available to the Gator are still going to be highly ranked, high profile teams.