DrTorch
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
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Gas at $2.59
Still a little high. $2.25 is about in line with what we should expect.
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10-21-2008 08:04 AM |
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WoodlandsOwl
Up in the Woods
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RE: Gas at $2.59
Down a $1.00 in what... 3 weeks?
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10-21-2008 08:27 AM |
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DrTorch
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
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RE: Gas at $2.59
WMD Owl Wrote:Down a $1.00 in what... 3 weeks?
Certainly over .50 in 2-3 weeks, it was .16 higher last Fri at my best station.
I'm thinking about 8-9 weeks for a full dollar. I moved back to MD 10 weeks ago, to a spot where gas prices are particularly low. I remember bragging about a week after moving that I got gas at $3.59.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2008 08:35 AM by DrTorch.)
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10-21-2008 08:34 AM |
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Owl 69/70/75
Just an old rugby coach
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RE: Gas at $2.59
Now would actually be a good time to start phasing in a carbon tax on gasoline consumption. Start at $0.25/gallon for the first year, then $0.25 annual increments until we get to $2.00/gallon, or maybe $2.50 or $3.00. We are never going to get rational energy policy as long as gasoline is too cheap.
We could allow a credit for some level of driving to offset the impact on poor people. Say, take the smaller of (1) the number of licensed drivers in your household, or (2) the number of cars owned by your household. Allow 10,000 miles/year per car/driver. Figure out how many gallons that is at the CAFE standard. Multiply that times the tax rate, and allow that amount as a credit to everyone. If you don't use your car, you could actually make money on the deal.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2008 10:12 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
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10-21-2008 10:11 AM |
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WoodlandsOwl
Up in the Woods
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RE: Gas at $2.59
DrTorch Wrote:WMD Owl Wrote:Down a $1.00 in what... 3 weeks?
Certainly over .50 in 2-3 weeks, it was .16 higher last Fri at my best station.
I'm thinking about 8-9 weeks for a full dollar. I moved back to MD 10 weeks ago, to a spot where gas prices are particularly low. I remember bragging about a week after moving that I got gas at $3.59.
After Ike and the alleged "pipeline problems" that caused a "shortage" in the southeast, gas has dropped from $4.05 to $2.58 right down the street from me in Atlanta.
check out http://www.gasbuddy.com put in your zip and find the best price.
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10-21-2008 10:26 AM |
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DrTorch
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
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RE: Gas at $2.59
Wow, it surprises me to see that coming from you Owl. More taxes, then complicated credits and deductions?
How about simply letting the market take over?
Need a more certain economic reward? The feds could offer the prize that they'll replace their entire fleet over a 3 year span to any company that can meet performance/production requirements for high efficiency and/or electric vehicles.
How about deciding whether the DoE is going to do something useful in terms of energy policy w/ its $25B budget?
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10-21-2008 10:28 AM |
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Owl 69/70/75
Just an old rugby coach
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RE: Gas at $2.59
Torch,
I agree with both of your comments too. I think electric vehicles should be mandatory for federal purchases (excepting obvious needs like defense and public safety).
But gasoline is just too cheap here, it really is. We subsidize domestic E&P to keep it competitive with foreign. If we removed those subsidies, that's the end of any domestic production and we are totally at the mercy of OPEC. That doesn't seem to be the place to act. But a carbon tax could raise revenues to fund infrastructure improvements that are needed to transition away from oil. That would be a step toward reducing dependence on OPEC.
It's basically the Paris Hilton plan, it really is. She really does have a better energy plan than either major candidate. How bad is that?
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10-21-2008 10:34 AM |
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georgia_tech_swagger
Res publica non dominetur
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RE: Gas at $2.59
I find the entire "carbon tax" and "carbon footprint" thing a giant scam. If we're utterly destroying this planet ... and your solution is to simply tax those "destroying" it ... you'll still get a destroyed planet, you'll just make Uncle Sam alot richer in the process.
If this is such a catastrophe ... then outlaw high carbon emitting things. Get some testicles with your policy. And let's start with one of the biggest sources of carbon emissions in the globe ... cows. We'll slaughter all the cows and drive them to extinction. No more milk. No more steak. No more hamburgers. But boy we'll have alot less carbon emissions!
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10-21-2008 10:46 AM |
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mlb
O' Great One
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RE: Gas at $2.59
It is a scam, GTS. I think I'm going to start selling carbon credits myself... I mean, there is no accounting for where the money goes. You know that someone is getting rich off of it... freaking ridiculous if you ask me.
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10-21-2008 11:24 AM |
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DrTorch
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
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RE: Gas at $2.59
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I find the entire "carbon tax" and "carbon footprint" thing a giant scam.
If this is such a catastrophe ... then outlaw high carbon emitting things.
I thought that Owl's comment was about the environment at first too, but I don't think that's his point. If I understand, he's suggesting that the US tax gas to let consumers feel more directly the costs with holding up the country's domesting production. This cost can't be ignored b/c it's "pay me now or pay me later". Get cheap gas now, and it becomes a financial and security risk later.
But, Americans don't pay attention to that when gas prices are low. So the Gov't needs to do this for national security, but hitting up citizens more directly will make them conserve more.
As for outlaw high carbon emitting things...I do think a tax on leaf-blowers might be a good thing. Someone ought to evaluate how much gas is used in those types of devices...and then estimate how many calories a person would burn to pick up a friggin' broom and use it!
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10-21-2008 12:12 PM |
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Ninerfan1
Habitual Line Stepper
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RE: Gas at $2.59
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I find the entire "carbon tax" and "carbon footprint" thing a giant scam. If we're utterly destroying this planet ... and your solution is to simply tax those "destroying" it ... you'll still get a destroyed planet, you'll just make Uncle Sam alot richer in the process.
If this is such a catastrophe ... then outlaw high carbon emitting things. Get some testicles with your policy. And let's start with one of the biggest sources of carbon emissions in the globe ... cows. We'll slaughter all the cows and drive them to extinction. No more milk. No more steak. No more hamburgers. But boy we'll have alot less carbon emissions!
I knew GTS wasn't all bad.
QFT.
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10-21-2008 12:52 PM |
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ETSUfan1
SoCon / ETSU Mod
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RE: Gas at $2.59
Gas is too cheap? Really? I guess the oil companys have brainwashed you. I know I'm not the only one that remembers gas under $1. This is exactly what the oil companies want you to think.
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10-21-2008 01:57 PM |
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flyingswoosh
Hall of Famer
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RE: Gas at $2.59
ETSUfan1 Wrote:Gas is too cheap? Really? I guess the oil companys have brainwashed you. I know I'm not the only one that remembers gas under $1. This is exactly what the oil companies want you to think.
i remember it. it was over 10 years ago. gas in chapel hill was about 92 cents/gallon. those were the good days
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10-21-2008 02:10 PM |
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Lord Stanley
L'Étoile du Nord
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RE: Gas at $2.59
Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:But gasoline is just too cheap here, it really is. We subsidize domestic E&P to keep it competitive with foreign. If we removed those subsidies, that's the end of any domestic production and we are totally at the mercy of OPEC. That doesn't seem to be the place to act. But a carbon tax could raise revenues to fund infrastructure improvements that are needed to transition away from oil. That would be a step toward reducing dependence on OPEC.
I hope people don't just equate cheap gas = lots of people driving low MPG vehicles for ***** and giggles.
Too much of our concern with gasoline doesn't take into account how damn much of the world relies on low cost, efficient fuel driven logistics to keep items affordable.
Our economic might is built on the back of ships, planes, trains and trucks, all which require cheap gas to keep delivery and transportation cheap. And all are modes that aren't exactly electric vehicle compliant. Reducing our dependence on OPEC is nothing but a sound bite, and eliminating our dependence on foreign oil is a pipe dream.
Expensive gas does more than pollute. It'll stop commerce. Or at least make it tremendously more expensive.
Cheap gas is needed until that perfect new transportation option is ID'd. And until then, I don't believe we'll do anyone any favors by taxing (or raising taxes) on gasoline.
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10-21-2008 03:29 PM |
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Artifice
1st String
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RE: Gas at $2.59
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I find the entire "carbon tax" and "carbon footprint" thing a giant scam. If we're utterly destroying this planet ... and your solution is to simply tax those "destroying" it ... you'll still get a destroyed planet, you'll just make Uncle Sam alot richer in the process.
Okay
Quote:If this is such a catastrophe ... then outlaw high carbon emitting things. Get some testicles with your policy. And let's start with one of the biggest sources of carbon emissions in the globe ... cows. We'll slaughter all the cows and drive them to extinction. No more milk. No more steak. No more hamburgers. But boy we'll have alot less carbon emissions!
Huh? Methane - check. Carbon? Did I sleep through a lecture?
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10-21-2008 03:56 PM |
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Brookes Owl
Heisman
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RE: Gas at $2.59
Artifice Wrote:Quote:If this is such a catastrophe ... then outlaw high carbon emitting things. Get some testicles with your policy. And let's start with one of the biggest sources of carbon emissions in the globe ... cows. We'll slaughter all the cows and drive them to extinction. No more milk. No more steak. No more hamburgers. But boy we'll have alot less carbon emissions!
Huh? Methane - check. Carbon? Did I sleep through a lecture?
Methane = CH4;C stands for...
Worth mentioning that, depending on the process, methanogenesis can also produce a fair amount of CO2 (but not sure if that applies to cows).
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10-21-2008 04:19 PM |
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NIU007
Legend
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RE: Gas at $2.59
Lord Stanley Wrote:Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:But gasoline is just too cheap here, it really is. We subsidize domestic E&P to keep it competitive with foreign. If we removed those subsidies, that's the end of any domestic production and we are totally at the mercy of OPEC. That doesn't seem to be the place to act. But a carbon tax could raise revenues to fund infrastructure improvements that are needed to transition away from oil. That would be a step toward reducing dependence on OPEC.
I hope people don't just equate cheap gas = lots of people driving low MPG vehicles for ***** and giggles.
Too much of our concern with gasoline doesn't take into account how damn much of the world relies on low cost, efficient fuel driven logistics to keep items affordable.
Our economic might is built on the back of ships, planes, trains and trucks, all which require cheap gas to keep delivery and transportation cheap. And all are modes that aren't exactly electric vehicle compliant. Reducing our dependence on OPEC is nothing but a sound bite, and eliminating our dependence on foreign oil is a pipe dream.
Expensive gas does more than pollute. It'll stop commerce. Or at least make it tremendously more expensive.
Cheap gas is needed until that perfect new transportation option is ID'd. And until then, I don't believe we'll do anyone any favors by taxing (or raising taxes) on gasoline.
That new transportation option won't happen though, because gas is cheap. The incentive isn't there. People don't conserve nor do they want to subsidize alternative energies until they are competitive with oil and gas, when gas is cheap. We'll end up with another decade of profligate use of energy, and then wind up in the same spot, just as dependent upon foreign oil, whether we are doing offshore drilling or not. That's why gas can be too cheap. I've been saying that for some time. I agree with what Owl is saying.
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10-22-2008 04:45 PM |
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ETSUfan1
SoCon / ETSU Mod
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RE: Gas at $2.59
A friend of mine filled up for $2.28 a gallon today as oil fell below $65 a barrell. Hell we might make it under $2 again. Thats something I NEVER thought I would ever see again.
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10-24-2008 05:28 PM |
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