Do we still have a need in our society for schools like we have with state funded HBCUs? Were they not founded on the principle of "seperate but equal"? Is this a dinosaur of racism that has out lived the reason it was developed? Is it not racism in and of itself? If we are all equal, why do we need universities targeted to a specific group of people?

State funded HBCUs have some of the worst academic ratings. Most have an open admission policy and low graduation rates. Many teach remedial courses to get the students to college levels. In the end many students face academic suspension and are buried in loans they can not repay. Is this not a disservice to the students? Would it not be a better use of tax payers money to send all students (HBCU and non HBCU) to a local community college to obtain the remedial courses and prove that they have the knowledge to complete a college degree program? Costs would be much less at a community college for the students and tax payers. If a student fails, the cost to the student will be much less.

I reference TSU in Houston. Through their open admission policy most of their new admits are not academically at the college level. Graduation rates are horrible. Degress have little value and the vast majority of students have incurred college loans to attend school and TSU has low graduation rates, meaning many students fail and are buried in debt they can not repay. Would the students not be better served by attending Houston Community College to complete their remedial courses and then apply for admission at any number of schools? This way you weed out students that will not succeed at college and raise the value of the degress granted by the institution by increasing graduation rates.

Former Texas Lt Gov Bill Hobby endorsed this idea the day before he left office, but stated it was such a political hot potato that he would have never raised the issue as it could have effected his re-election, as most people respond from an emotional position on this issue rather than an academic position.

Comments? Thoughts?

Please keep this thread on track. It is a serious post. No jokes, innuendos, politics or allegations should be part of this discussion. And let's not dwell on what happened in the past, let's keep focused on today and the future.

West Is the Best Wrote:Former Texas Lt Gov Bill Hobby endorsed this idea the day before he left office, but stated it was such a political hot potato that he would have never raised the issue as it could have effected his re-election, as most people respond from an emotional position on this issue rather than an academic position.

I agree with you but the politically correct left would consider tampering with the system as racist and even your governor seems to have realized this. The only way this can be fixed is from within the system itself and that's probably not very likely.

Instead of getting rid of them, how about making them better. Not all HBCU's are bad. Some are pretty good. Although, I know a few I would not go to.

cb4029 Wrote:Instead of getting rid of them, how about making them better. Not all HBCU's are bad. Some are pretty good. Although, I know a few I would not go to.

Funny.....in NC.....NCSU in Durham graduates a hell of a lot of white lawyers that get in to the law school as minorities.

West Is the Best Wrote:Do we still have a need in our society for schools like we have with state funded HBCUs?

My first response was to reference this article
http://pressregister.com/articles/2008/0...695776.txt

Quote: Were they not founded on the principle of "seperate but equal"? Is this a dinosaur of racism that has out lived the reason it was developed? Is it not racism in and of itself? If we are all equal, why do we need universities targeted to a specific group of people?

State funded HBCUs have some of the worst academic ratings. Most have an open admission policy and low graduation rates.

But in fairness, these folks disagree
http://orangegrizzly.blogspot.com/2008/0...black.html

although they do have a vested interest in HBIs, so their objectivity can be called into question.
And it should be, b/c their stats don't seem to support their claims:
"Maryland’s four Historically Black Institutions account for 64 percent of African American undergraduates enrolled in the state’s traditionally public four-year institutions. ...Recent data show that Maryland’s Historically Black Institutions have been productive beyond their enrollment percentages. In 2006, they accounted for 56 percent of the bachelor’s degrees awarded to African Americans by traditional public four year campuses"

Maybe the problem lies w/ who's doing the teaching.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

cb4029 Wrote:Instead of getting rid of them, how about making them better. Not all HBCU's are bad. Some are pretty good. Although, I know a few I would not go to.

Funny.....in NC.....NCSU in Durham graduates a hell of a lot of white lawyers that get in to the law school as minorities.

Yep, there are minority scholarships for whites at HBCU's.
And it's NCCU, not NCSU.

HBCUs are just as productive as everyone else. Morehouse has one of the strongest alumni resumes in the country, NCCU puts out lawyers like duke, Howard develops world class doctors and dentists (just to name a few)

West Is the Best Wrote:I reference TSU in Houston. Through their open admission policy most of their new admits are not academically at the college level. Graduation rates are horrible. Degress have little value and the vast majority of students have incurred college loans to attend school and TSU has low graduation rates, meaning many students fail and are buried in debt they can not repay. Would the students not be better served by attending Houston Community College to complete their remedial courses and then apply for admission at any number of schools? This way you weed out students that will not succeed at college and raise the value of the degress granted by the institution by increasing graduation rates.

Former Texas Lt Gov Bill Hobby endorsed this idea the day before he left office, but stated it was such a political hot potato that he would have never raised the issue as it could have effected his re-election, as most people respond from an emotional position on this issue rather than an academic position.

Comments? Thoughts?

TSU has massive amounts of problems. Its former President, Priscilla Slade was indicted for embezzling around half a million dollars from the University to blow on parties and for home improvements.

She recently pled “No Contest” and got off with having to pay restitution and a slap on the wrist.

It has a revolving door administration and a Board of Regents. It is effectively running under State Conservatorship because of the financial problems. The auditors can't find where the money has gone.. dating back from the late 1990's.

I think the solution for TSU is to consolidate it into the University of Houston, which is located less than a mile away. In fact, this idea is considered every session of Texas Legislature, but dies in Committee when African American Legislators scream bloody murder about it.

While everyone recognizes that TSU has a corrupt administration and produces graduates that have trouble in the job market, the "Powers that Be" fail to do anything about it. Why? They are afraid of being called "racists."

I think you can easily consolidate TSU into the University of Houston. There are many "duplicate programs" such as Law Schools, Pharmacy Schools that can be cut to provide more funding. In fact, the State of Texas would be more than willing to write the check to UH to cover the additional costs.

Some at UH don't want TSU students integrated into their University because the TSU students would have problems competing with UH students, that are not subject to "open admissions" policy.

cb4029 Wrote:

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

cb4029 Wrote:Instead of getting rid of them, how about making them better. Not all HBCU's are bad. Some are pretty good. Although, I know a few I would not go to.

Funny.....in NC.....NCSU in Durham graduates a hell of a lot of white lawyers that get in to the law school as minorities.

Yep, there are minority scholarships for whites at HBCU's.
And it's NCCU, not NCSU.

You are correct...Im still wheeling after losing to the Wolfpack a couple of weeks ago...I cant get them out of my mind.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

cb4029 Wrote:Instead of getting rid of them, how about making them better. Not all HBCU's are bad. Some are pretty good. Although, I know a few I would not go to.

Funny.....in NC.....NCSU in Durham graduates a hell of a lot of white lawyers that get in to the law school as minorities.

It's NCCU -- North Carolina Central University.

You can't forget North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University whose most infamous graduate is Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.

[/i]

West Is the Best Wrote:Do we still have a need in our society for schools like we have with state funded HBCUs? Were they not founded on the principle of "seperate but equal"? Is this a dinosaur of racism that has out lived the reason it was developed? Is it not racism in and of itself? If we are all equal, why do we need universities targeted to a specific group of people?

State funded HBCUs have some of the worst academic ratings. Most have an open admission policy and low graduation rates. Many teach remedial courses to get the students to college levels. In the end many students face academic suspension and are buried in loans they can not repay. Is this not a disservice to the students? Would it not be a better use of tax payers money to send all students (HBCU and non HBCU) to a local community college to obtain the remedial courses and prove that they have the knowledge to complete a college degree program? Costs would be much less at a community college for the students and tax payers. If a student fails, the cost to the student will be much less.

I reference TSU in Houston. Through their open admission policy most of their new admits are not academically at the college level. Graduation rates are horrible. Degress have little value and the vast majority of students have incurred college loans to attend school and TSU has low graduation rates, meaning many students fail and are buried in debt they can not repay. Would the students not be better served by attending Houston Community College to complete their remedial courses and then apply for admission at any number of schools? This way you weed out students that will not succeed at college and raise the value of the degress granted by the institution by increasing graduation rates.

Former Texas Lt Gov Bill Hobby endorsed this idea the day before he left office, but stated it was such a political hot potato that he would have never raised the issue as it could have effected his re-election, as most people respond from an emotional position on this issue rather than an academic position.

Comments? Thoughts?

Please keep this thread on track. It is a serious post. No jokes, innuendos, politics or allegations should be part of this discussion. And let's not dwell on what happened in the past, let's keep focused on today and the future.

The problem is some of these schools are 150 years old. Good Luck trying to shut them down. Alabama State has as much right exist as Alabama. What's happened to these schools after integration is the best and brightest minority students started going to non-HBCU, leaving the school with also rans. Those schools then had to change their mission to develop the also rans. Even though the graduation rates are poor, many students must take remedial courses, and the degrees may not be as valuable those schools would tell you that it's not the product that enters, but what comes out. If they can turn 20-40% of their students into quality productive members of society then that's 20-40% more than would be without the schools.