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ETSUfan1 Offline
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Post: #1
Who's missing?
08-27-2008 04:36 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Who's missing?
ETSUfan1 Wrote:http://atlanticsun.org/atlanticsun/news/79/2808/

I can understand the confusion but let me clear it up for everyone. Once again I must come to the defense of ETSU's academics.

ETSU isn't classified by U.S. News and World Report as a master's university as are others in the A-Sun.

U.S. News classifies ETSU in their highest and most prestigious category, "national univeristy". U.S. News describes national universities as "Schools in the National Universities category, such as Yale and UCLA, offer a full range of undergraduate majors, master's, and doctoral degrees. These colleges also are committed to producing groundbreaking research."

In short you can see that ETSU competes on a completely different level academically than other A-Sun schools, yet one more indication of why ETSU just doesn't fit in the A-Sun.
(This post was last modified: 08-27-2008 06:37 PM by BucDoctor.)
08-27-2008 06:30 PM
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JWBUC Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Who's missing?
Yes, but we are winning the right way.
08-27-2008 06:53 PM
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bowdowntoUT Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Who's missing?
Yes, ETSU is in the category of National University. Interestingly, no 'tier two' just straight in to Tier Three and Four(where you will find ETSU listed in alpha order) and bears no ranking at all from what I can see without a premium... and an interesting tidbit: Fall 2007 Acceptance rate at ETSU: 97.5 %

You can do some superficial digging on the site... there are 130 Universities that 'score' and are ranked in Tier 1..... UTK is not even in the top 100, so don't despair too much!!

Really interesting methods explaination... Doc, stop salivating!! We'll be forced to nominate you for the President's job!!! You stats junkie, you!!!

Ranking Category Definitions
Posted August 21, 2008
U.S. News ranks universities and colleges in three steps.

First, to sort colleges and universities into appropriate categories for comparisons, this 2009 edition of America's Best Colleges uses the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching's 2006 Basic version of its classifications. Carnegie groups American colleges and universities according to their mission as defined by factors such as the highest level of degrees conferred by discipline. The Carnegie Classifications have been the basis of the Best Colleges ranking categories since the first rankings in 1983. As the accepted standard in higher education, they are used by the U.S. Department of Education and many associations to organize their data and to determine colleges' eligibility for grant money. U.S. News collapses nine of those Carnegie categories into four main groupings: National Universities, Liberal Arts Colleges, Universities-Master's, and Baccalaureate Colleges. The schools in the Universities-Master's and Baccalaureate Colleges categories are placed into one of four geographic regions: North, South, Midwest, and West.

Second, data on up to 15 indicators of academic quality are gathered from each school and tabulated.

Finally, colleges are ranked in their category by their total weighted score.

National Universities There are 262 national universities in the country (164 public, 98 private), based on categories developed by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. The universities offer a full range of undergraduate majors, as well as master's and doctoral degrees; many strongly emphasize research.

Liberal Arts Colleges The 265 liberal arts colleges emphasize undergraduate education and award at least 50 percent of their degrees in the liberal arts.

Universities-Master's Like the national universities, universities-master's (as defined by the Carnegie Foundation) provide a full range of undergraduate programs and some master's level programs. They offer few, if any, doctoral programs. The 572 universities-master's are ranked within four geographic areas: North, South, Midwest, and West.

Baccalaureate Colleges These institutions focus primarily on undergraduate education, just as the liberal arts colleges do but grant fewer than 50 percent of their degrees in liberal arts disciplines. At these schools, at least 10 percent of undergraduate degrees awarded are bachelor's degrees. There are 319 baccalaureate colleges, ranked within four regions: North, South, Midwest, and West.

Specialty Schools Looking for a school that specializes in textile arts or instrumental music? Colleges and universities that offer most or all of their degrees in fine arts, performing arts, business, and engineering are listed in this category. None of these programs are ranked, but pertinent data for each school are provided.

Specialty Rankings U.S. News does rank certain undergraduate program areas. Undergraduate business and engineering programs were ranked based solely on a peer assessment survey sent in the spring of 2008. To appear on the undergraduate business survey, a school must have an undergraduate business program accredited by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business. To appear on an undergraduate engineering survey, a school must have an undergraduate engineering program accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology. Accredited undergraduate engineering programs were then split into two groups: those schools whose highest engineering degree offered is a doctoral and those schools whose highest engineering degree offered is a bachelor's or master's. Those schools that offer a doctoral degree in engineering tend to have more of a focus on and opportunities for research. Schools whose highest engineering degree is a bachelor's or master's tend to be more focused on undergraduate education.

U.S. News Categories The 1,400-plus accredited schools were divided into categories based on the Basic classifications established in 2006 by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. This is how the Carnegie Basic categories translate into the U.S. News categories used in the 2009 edition of America's Best Colleges:
08-28-2008 07:09 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Who's missing?
Yes, there's the whole Carnegie classification system nuances...ETSU slated to move to Carnegie Research Extensive within the next 2-3 years. I believe the magic number to move to Extensive is 15 doctoral programs, and ETSU has ?12? with 3 more already on the way.

No matter how you spin it, this is just another example of why ETSU doesn't fit with the A-Sun. Not to slight other A-Sun members but ETSU's academic mission is so different from the other members. In reality isn't ETSU's true vision to move beyond a regional university? I don't think that is necessarily a bad vision to have, but I doubt that I will see that vision fulfilled in my lifetime. That's a lofty vision for a regional university.

I do love those stats!!!!! There's just so much rich information and beauty in the objectivity of numbers.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2008 08:52 PM by BucDoctor.)
08-28-2008 08:47 PM
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Buccaneerlover Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Who's missing?
You realize that you are trying to compare Yale and ETSU in academics... Maybe I misread that, or we'll just agree to disagree, but as long as the admission standards are to have a C average out of high school, academics isn't something ETSU should even attempt to brag about.


BucDoctor Wrote:
ETSUfan1 Wrote:http://atlanticsun.org/atlanticsun/news/79/2808/

I can understand the confusion but let me clear it up for everyone. Once again I must come to the defense of ETSU's academics.

ETSU isn't classified by U.S. News and World Report as a master's university as are others in the A-Sun.

U.S. News classifies ETSU in their highest and most prestigious category, "national univeristy". U.S. News describes national universities as "Schools in the National Universities category, such as Yale and UCLA, offer a full range of undergraduate majors, master's, and doctoral degrees. These colleges also are committed to producing groundbreaking research."

In short you can see that ETSU competes on a completely different level academically than other A-Sun schools, yet one more indication of why ETSU just doesn't fit in the A-Sun.
08-29-2008 02:12 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Who's missing?
Buccaneerlover Wrote:You realize that you are trying to compare Yale and ETSU in academics... Maybe I misread that, or we'll just agree to disagree, but as long as the admission standards are to have a C average out of high school, academics isn't something ETSU should even attempt to brag about.


BucDoctor Wrote:
ETSUfan1 Wrote:http://atlanticsun.org/atlanticsun/news/79/2808/

I can understand the confusion but let me clear it up for everyone. Once again I must come to the defense of ETSU's academics.

ETSU isn't classified by U.S. News and World Report as a master's university as are others in the A-Sun.

U.S. News classifies ETSU in their highest and most prestigious category, "national univeristy". U.S. News describes national universities as "Schools in the National Universities category, such as Yale and UCLA, offer a full range of undergraduate majors, master's, and doctoral degrees. These colleges also are committed to producing groundbreaking research."

In short you can see that ETSU competes on a completely different level academically than other A-Sun schools, yet one more indication of why ETSU just doesn't fit in the A-Sun.

I'm not trying to compare them with anyone, U.S. New is comparing them. That statement is a direct quote from US News website about the National Universitites category. U.S. News classsifies ETSU as a national university, not I.
08-29-2008 02:54 PM
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silence dogood Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Who's missing?
the very nature of ETSU is one of a "regional" university. however, with its medical school and the various research offshoots from it, this pushes etsu into the national category.
08-31-2008 10:08 PM
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