Good article. After its stay on the main forum, how about a stint on the political forum for some conversation?

I think that the article shows us that it is not just the fact that we gave people Section 8. I think that it is the fact that Memphis did not take the next step in screening the people and also not giving them opportunity to learn "life skills" where they could take those skills and get better jobs and feel empowered. I have had many conversations here with a co-worker who is from Detroit and it is not about taking people out of one area and dumping them somewhere else, it is about giving people empowerment. We also saw this in the aftermath of Katrina when we saw the crime rates of San Antonio and Houston rise. Hoepfully, developers and the city will look at it more than just making a dollar and actually look at it as being a service to the community.

Too bad whitehaven, hickory hill, frayser, raleigh and cordova didn't incorporate way back when.

newtiger Wrote:I think that the article shows us that it is not just the fact that we gave people Section 8. I think that it is the fact that Memphis did not take the next step in screening the people and also not giving them opportunity to learn "life skills" where they could take those skills and get better jobs and feel empowered. I have had many conversations here with a co-worker who is from Detroit and it is not about taking people out of one area and dumping them somewhere else, it is about giving people empowerment. We also saw this in the aftermath of Katrina when we saw the crime rates of San Antonio and Houston rise. Hoepfully, developers and the city will look at it more than just making a dollar and actually look at it as being a service to the community.

I have no problem whatsoever with job training and "life skills" training (actually have proposed that it be a class in high school). However, until the drug trade is brought down, it would only make a small dent in things. These kids know they can make 10x selling dope what they can working in a warehouse. With the combo of welfare, section 8 housing, EBT cards, etc, they make almost as much not working as they would working an entry level job. For many of them, this justifies hanging on the street corner instead of working. As far as the "life skills" classes, I'm all for it. I don't know how much it would help this generation of the poor around Memphis, but would think it might have an impact on the next...

Gray Avenger Wrote:

poppaslaw Wrote:No wonder decent folks want to move outside Shelby County.

I live in Shelby County because I like it, and I'm not going anywhere. I don't believe in running or giving up.

Well I moved from the Hickory Hood to Midtown and moved again from Midtown to Midtown. I'm still in the CITY because I choose to be. Maybe I should have been more specific in mentioning the city and not just the county. Forgive me. Shelby Co. could mean a lot of things. Do you have a nice house in less crime areas like Arlington maybe? Millington? G'town or C'ville?

I'm not saying you're not "decent folk" if you choose to live in the city or Shelby Co. for that matter, but a large number of "decent folk" i.e. law abiding citizens are moving to Tipton, Fayette, Crittendon and Desoto Counties because of this city's crime problem (not to mention a host of other things like wacked city govt., schools, taxes, etc.). That is fact.

And what I have seen happen to the neighborhood I grew up in is fact. This article just sheds more light on why crime has increased there. And yes it's sad, very sad.

poppaslaw Wrote:I have seen first hand what this article mentions to the neighborhood I grew up in.

In the mid 70's we moved to Ridgeway Estates in Hickory Hill. Back then, it was in the middle of nowhere. Winchester was two lanes as was Shelby Dr. Many streets like Kirby Pkwy didn't cut through to other major streets. I went to Crump Elementary and then Kirby HS. GREAT neighborhood schools.

Around the time I graduated HS in 1990 the Airport Buyout had occurred. Many of my friends and their families over the years moved on to G'town and C'ville because they became more affluent. My mom, being a single mom, was doing all she could for us. More and more families in my neighborhood moved out. As I'd come back home from college, I'd see more and more of the people I knew move on, and more and more of less than desirable people move in. In the late 90's the I didn't recognize the neighborhood I once grew up in. City annexed, new light poles, and many many shady people moving in.

I bought the house from my mother in 2002 (to help her out) and lived there with my brother until he bought the house from me in '04. He's still there with his family, doing the best he can with what he has. The neighborhood has gone to total pot. Hickory Hill is now "Hickory Hood". Just drive down Winchester and see what has become of the thriving businesses that used to be there. The Mall is all but abandoned. Hundreds of foreclosed houses or vacant ones litter my old stomping grounds. Gun fire is commonplace. Crump Elem. and Kirby High are FAR from decent safe schools.

It all started with the Airport Buyout, then city annexation, and decent people moving on. This article sheds a little more light on what happened to my old neighborhood with Sec.8 folks moving in. I'm sure Hickory Hill is the "rabbit's tail" on the crime/sec.8 map mentioned in the story.

SE Memphis is becoming a war zone. Gang graffiti is EVERYWHERE. There's not enough police even with a new HH station. Look at the rash of crime to hit the 38125 area near the new FedEx HQ. It's disheartening to say the least. It's happening all over this city. No wonder decent folks want to move outside Shelby County. Crime here knows no boundaries and you can write it down...Cordova will be the next Hickory Hill...get ready!

We lived on Shagbark off of Mendenhall just past Winchester (across from the Brunswick bowling ally) from '78-'80. It was like Germantown when we moved there. I went to Sheffield Elementary (my father taught at the Sheffield High right next door). Now (and in the past 10-15 years, it's become a WAR ZONE. I played baseball and basketball at Millington from '85-'89 and Kirby was still a nice school then (but , it was slowly starting to take form into what it is now). I remember hitting a home run against Matt Ryan in '88. It's sad what's becoming of Memphis (inside the city limits). And, you are correct. Cordova is next. It's already starting. Here in Millington, we've seen a lot of the same problems that the article speaks about. Once quiet and well respected neighborhoods have become littered with crime and section 8 residents (rent in these neighbor hoods runs anywhere from 750-1200 a month; section 8 allows for up to $800 I think) . Also the apartment complexes that have surrounded our neighborhood for 28 years now are becoming a concern to me and my family. We've never had any problems and usually were quiet. However, just in the last year, we've started hearing the police called on a nightly basis and beer and alcohol bottles being thrown in our backyard (which backs up to one complex). It used to be nothing to leave the door unlocked and never worry. Never had anything stolen around here in the past. In the past 5 years we had our house robbed ( being ransacked was the worst part) one summer when we were working on a house we own in Mississippi and have had many bicycles and even dogs stolen. That's why Tipton county is still booming.

As much as I love Memphis, I'm moving to East Tennessee as soon as I'm able. That's where all the industry is. No companies want to come to Memphis. Chattanooga just got the new Saturn plant. If it weren't for Autozone, Fed Ex , International Paper , Nike and a few others, Memphis would be no more. It's sad, but until leadership changes and people as a whole make a effort to change their way of lives, nothing will ever change.

transitt Wrote:

newtiger Wrote:I think that the article shows us that it is not just the fact that we gave people Section 8. I think that it is the fact that Memphis did not take the next step in screening the people and also not giving them opportunity to learn "life skills" where they could take those skills and get better jobs and feel empowered. I have had many conversations here with a co-worker who is from Detroit and it is not about taking people out of one area and dumping them somewhere else, it is about giving people empowerment. We also saw this in the aftermath of Katrina when we saw the crime rates of San Antonio and Houston rise. Hoepfully, developers and the city will look at it more than just making a dollar and actually look at it as being a service to the community.

I have no problem whatsoever with job training and "life skills" training (actually have proposed that it be a class in high school). However, until the drug trade is brought down, it would only make a small dent in things. These kids know they can make 10x selling dope what they can working in a warehouse. With the combo of welfare, section 8 housing, EBT cards, etc, they make almost as much not working as they would working an entry level job. For many of them, this justifies hanging on the street corner instead of working. As far as the "life skills" classes, I'm all for it. I don't know how much it would help this generation of the poor around Memphis, but would think it might have an impact on the next...

To an extent I agree, but, my point was more that if we are able to screen who acutally gets the section 8 opportunity and give the parents of the kids the life skills/ training to get better jobs/ opportunities, then I think that you are able to put the kids in an enviorment where they will have a different mentaility of doing what is right or wrong. For instance, if you are able to find a single mother who has two kids under 6, give her the skills that she needs to be a nurses tech or something as well as the opportunity to get section 8. Then her kids grow up in a better neighborhood with differnt types of kids and the draw is not there for them to sell drugs or run in gangs. I think that it goes back to the screening part and really giving the opportunity to those who want it and you are able to limit the amout of people that are going into "good" neighborhoods.

calfan1 Wrote:Too bad whitehaven, hickory hill, frayser, raleigh and cordova didn't incorporate way back when.

They tried to fight annexation in Hickory Hill. HART (Hickory Area Residents for Tomorrow) fought city annexation for 11 years. Most of those in the lawsuit moved out of HH to better neighborhoods and the lawsuit finally died with annexation in '98.

HIckory Hill or the Hickory Hood?

This was from '04 and it's only got worse.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Cont...oid%3A5274

newtiger Wrote:

transitt Wrote:

newtiger Wrote:I think that the article shows us that it is not just the fact that we gave people Section 8. I think that it is the fact that Memphis did not take the next step in screening the people and also not giving them opportunity to learn "life skills" where they could take those skills and get better jobs and feel empowered. I have had many conversations here with a co-worker who is from Detroit and it is not about taking people out of one area and dumping them somewhere else, it is about giving people empowerment. We also saw this in the aftermath of Katrina when we saw the crime rates of San Antonio and Houston rise. Hoepfully, developers and the city will look at it more than just making a dollar and actually look at it as being a service to the community.

I have no problem whatsoever with job training and "life skills" training (actually have proposed that it be a class in high school). However, until the drug trade is brought down, it would only make a small dent in things. These kids know they can make 10x selling dope what they can working in a warehouse. With the combo of welfare, section 8 housing, EBT cards, etc, they make almost as much not working as they would working an entry level job. For many of them, this justifies hanging on the street corner instead of working. As far as the "life skills" classes, I'm all for it. I don't know how much it would help this generation of the poor around Memphis, but would think it might have an impact on the next...

To an extent I agree, but, my point was more that if we are able to screen who acutally gets the section 8 opportunity and give the parents of the kids the life skills/ training to get better jobs/ opportunities, then I think that you are able to put the kids in an enviorment where they will have a different mentaility of doing what is right or wrong. For instance, if you are able to find a single mother who has two kids under 6, give her the skills that she needs to be a nurses tech or something as well as the opportunity to get section 8. Then her kids grow up in a better neighborhood with differnt types of kids and the draw is not there for them to sell drugs or run in gangs. I think that it goes back to the screening part and really giving the opportunity to those who want it and you are able to limit the amout of people that are going into "good" neighborhoods.

I think what you are missing, is that those opportunities are available and have been for twenty + years. You have to want to change your culture, and it's evident that most don't want to. It's a cultural problem, not a lack of opportunity problem.

I may be missing that. I do agree that something needs to change. If I win the GA powerball, I will build an OCS and then run for mayor of Memphis.

BIGGESTTIGERJLB Wrote:I played baseball and basketball at Millington from '85-'89 and Kirby was still a nice school then (but , it was slowly starting to take form into what it is now). I remember hitting a home run against Matt Ryan in '88.

Haha Matt Ryan. I think he went to Ole Piss on baseball scholly. He was a TERRIBLE QB on our football team. Aside from all that, he was also a pr*ck.

My senior year is when things really started to show about the quality of students enrolling at KHS. THEY ("Who is they you talkin' 'bout mofo?") would walk the halls chanting "Kill the White People" over and over again.

City leadership is where it starts. As long as Herenton and his merry theives are in charge you won't see much change. I had hope for Wharton, until it became eveident that he is in bed with Herenton to keep the position of Mayor in the hands of an African American.
As far as gov't asssitance goes: make it hard to get. Once you get it, you only keep it for a set period. After you've had it, you owe something for it. For starters, why not require a year of military service for every year you have recieve housing, EBT, or other forms of welfare.I know this doesn't work in all circumstances, but it's a start. I took out government loans to get through college. I have to pay those back. Why not require some form of payback for all government aid? Nothing should be free, unless one is physically or mentally incapable of supporting themselves. In that case, they recieve free assistance, as well as ONE person to care for them.

Another example of the government having all the answers.

When will we ever learn to seriously question the baffoons in government? I can't wait for what they have in store for the stupid masses next.

Quote:Betts’s latest crusade is something called “site-based resident services.” When the projects came down, the residents lost their public-support system—health clinics, child care, job training. Memphis’s infant-mortality rate is rising, for example, and Betts is convinced that has something to do with poor people’s having lost easy access to prenatal care. The services remained downtown while the clients scattered all over the city, many of them with no convenient transportation. Along with other nonprofit leaders, Betts is trying to get outreach centers opened in the outlying neighborhoods, and especially in some of the new, troubled apartment buildings. She says she’s beginning to hear supportive voices within the city government. But not enough leaders have acknowledged the new landscape—or admitted that the projects are gone in name only, and that the city’s middle-class dreams never came true.

The next question that should be asked is how much has all this cost?

How much did it cost to move the families, how much has it cost in new crime, and how much is it costing to re-connect to all the families that now are cut off from aid?

Finally, how much has it cost to destroy a city?

columbiatiger1 Wrote:City leadership is where it starts. As long as Herenton and his merry theives are in charge you won't see much change. I had hope for Wharton, until it became eveident that he is in bed with Herenton to keep the position of Mayor in the hands of an African American.
As far as gov't asssitance goes: make it hard to get. Once you get it, you only keep it for a set period. After you've had it, you owe something for it. For starters, why not require a year of military service for every year you have recieve housing, EBT, or other forms of welfare.I know this doesn't work in all circumstances, but it's a start. I took out government loans to get through college. I have to pay those back. Why not require some form of payback for all government aid? Nothing should be free, unless one is physically or mentally incapable of supporting themselves. In that case, they recieve free assistance, as well as ONE person to care for them.

I don't care WHAT color the mayor is. There needs to be a solution similar to what Joe Clark did in his schools up north. Run the bastards out and lock the doors. Bend a few rules if you have to.

Im all for it! BTW- I wasn't making a comment about the race of the Mayor, only taking a shot at their characters for wanting to keep things from moving forward.

columbiatiger1 Wrote:City leadership is where it starts. As long as Herenton and his merry theives are in charge you won't see much change. I had hope for Wharton, until it became eveident that he is in bed with Herenton to keep the position of Mayor in the hands of an African American.
As far as gov't asssitance goes: make it hard to get. Once you get it, you only keep it for a set period. After you've had it, you owe something for it. For starters, why not require a year of military service for every year you have recieve housing, EBT, or other forms of welfare.I know this doesn't work in all circumstances, but it's a start. I took out government loans to get through college. I have to pay those back. Why not require some form of payback for all government aid? Nothing should be free, unless one is physically or mentally incapable of supporting themselves. In that case, they recieve free assistance, as well as ONE person to care for them.

Because that would make sense.

We in America (well, the ones that actually have a say) are to blame for most of the problems due to welfare and the aid systems. They were meant to help initially, until a person gets on there feet. But, instead of having a cut off time frame, the aid just kept coming. That eventually led to a culture that accepted living below the poverty level. That in turn created a culture that accepted "someone" else paying their way and promoting laziness.

The Bible says, if you don't work, you don't eat. The further we get away from the Word, the worse our country will become.

columbiatiger1 Wrote:Im all for it! BTW- I wasn't making a comment about the race of the Mayor, only taking a shot at their characters for wanting to keep things from moving forward.

True, but the problem lies when you've got voters (who make up the majority) that vote for, endorse, and support a MORON like Herrenton, the Fords, and so on and so forth, JUST BECAUSE THEIR BLACK. It's the same thing that's happened with Obama. They aren't voting based on qualifications, because they agree with policy, etc...........only because they're black. That's what is destroying this country , not only in politics, but in the workforce, education system, etc......

newtiger Wrote:

transitt Wrote:

newtiger Wrote:I think that the article shows us that it is not just the fact that we gave people Section 8. I think that it is the fact that Memphis did not take the next step in screening the people and also not giving them opportunity to learn "life skills" where they could take those skills and get better jobs and feel empowered. I have had many conversations here with a co-worker who is from Detroit and it is not about taking people out of one area and dumping them somewhere else, it is about giving people empowerment. We also saw this in the aftermath of Katrina when we saw the crime rates of San Antonio and Houston rise. Hoepfully, developers and the city will look at it more than just making a dollar and actually look at it as being a service to the community.

I have no problem whatsoever with job training and "life skills" training (actually have proposed that it be a class in high school). However, until the drug trade is brought down, it would only make a small dent in things. These kids know they can make 10x selling dope what they can working in a warehouse. With the combo of welfare, section 8 housing, EBT cards, etc, they make almost as much not working as they would working an entry level job. For many of them, this justifies hanging on the street corner instead of working. As far as the "life skills" classes, I'm all for it. I don't know how much it would help this generation of the poor around Memphis, but would think it might have an impact on the next...

To an extent I agree, but, my point was more that if we are able to screen who acutally gets the section 8 opportunity and give the parents of the kids the life skills/ training to get better jobs/ opportunities, then I think that you are able to put the kids in an enviorment where they will have a different mentaility of doing what is right or wrong. For instance, if you are able to find a single mother who has two kids under 6, give her the skills that she needs to be a nurses tech or something as well as the opportunity to get section 8. Then her kids grow up in a better neighborhood with differnt types of kids and the draw is not there for them to sell drugs or run in gangs. I think that it goes back to the screening part and really giving the opportunity to those who want it and you are able to limit the amout of people that are going into "good" neighborhoods.

why work on your skills when welfare is available? and sustaining?

poppaslaw Wrote:

Gray Avenger Wrote:

poppaslaw Wrote:No wonder decent folks want to move outside Shelby County.

I live in Shelby County because I like it, and I'm not going anywhere. I don't believe in running or giving up.

Well I moved from the Hickory Hood to Midtown and moved again from Midtown to Midtown. I'm still in the CITY because I choose to be. Maybe I should have been more specific in mentioning the city and not just the county. Forgive me. Shelby Co. could mean a lot of things. Do you have a nice house in less crime areas like Arlington maybe? Millington? G'town or C'ville?

I'm not saying you're not "decent folk" if you choose to live in the city or Shelby Co. for that matter, but a large number of "decent folk" i.e. law abiding citizens are moving to Tipton, Fayette, Crittendon and Desoto Counties because of this city's crime problem (not to mention a host of other things like wacked city govt., schools, taxes, etc.). That is fact.

And what I have seen happen to the neighborhood I grew up in is fact. This article just sheds more light on why crime has increased there. And yes it's sad, very sad.

My parents moved to the same neighborhood, Hickory Hill, you grew up in 1987; I lived their some as well; was nice. They moved away sometime after 2000; not much appreciable value in their home. What you say is sad but true and it happened so fast.