Did I hear that the Big East is going to require all members to have a minimum annual athletic budget to retain membership? Are DePaul and Seton Hall's memberships in jepordy? Is this the way for the Big East to bring in a couple more all-sports members? Why not? Wasn't Temple essentially pushed out for similar reasons?

I have heard the rumors about the athletic budgets but haven't about what/if there will be a punishment. IMO, there is no way Seton Hall is going to be kicked to the cub. They are a founding member. That's a huge difference from kicking out a football only member.

If I remember correctly Temple was kicked out for an overall lack of commitment to football and poor attendance

Neil will probably be able to give you more info

Jackson

blog fodder

That wouldn't make sense for the BE since there are so many schools of different sizes and sports programs. If all the schools were more equal in what they offer then the idea might hold ground.

Jackson1011 Wrote:IMO, there is no way Seton Hall is going to be kicked to the cub. They are a founding member. That's a huge difference from kicking out a football only member.

Is your last name Tranghese? You make it sound as though kicking out a football-only member is a more trivial matter than kicking out a rinky-dink low-budget non-football member. That is backwards thinking in my opinion.

Fanatical, the premise would be to establish different budget thresholds for each faction of football, and non-football, schools.

Anybody know what the minimum budgets would be? I have heard $35,000,000 for all-sports. What are Seton Hall and DePaul's budgets these days?

I think they are both in the $15 mil range.

Gray Avenger Wrote:Anybody know what the minimum budgets would be? I have heard $35,000,000 for all-sports. What are Seton Hall and DePaul's budgets these days?

Silly topic. Schools can play with the numbers so that they can meet any budget number you throw out. Most schools report debt service as part of the athletic budget. For example, Boise State budget went up $5 million for next year, but it was almost all related to the debt service associated with their stadium expansion. A school like DePaul is $200+ million in debt. It could simply assign a portion of the debt to the athletic department. Alternatively, the University could charge the athletic department for a variety of things such as rent, etc. Imagine SJU rent in New York.

The only way you could enforce the general concept is by requiring the member schools to fully fund all athletic scholarships. I don't think you would get the football schools to agree to that. Most schools don't fully fund all their scholarships. Plus, the cost per scholarship varies significantly between the schools. For example, it costs an athletic department at a school like VU $40,000+ per scholarship while USF get charged only $20,000.

MU88 Wrote:

Gray Avenger Wrote:Anybody know what the minimum budgets would be? I have heard $35,000,000 for all-sports. What are Seton Hall and DePaul's budgets these days?

Silly topic. Schools can play with the numbers so that they can meet any budget number you throw out.

Probably true, but I'll wager that Seton Hall and DePaul will have to be more creative than most.

MU88 Wrote:

Gray Avenger Wrote:Anybody know what the minimum budgets would be? I have heard $35,000,000 for all-sports. What are Seton Hall and DePaul's budgets these days?

Schools can play with the numbers so that they can meet any budget number you throw out. Most schools report debt service as part of the athletic budget. For example, Boise State budget went up $5 million for next year, but it was almost all related to the debt service associated with their stadium expansion. A school like DePaul is $200+ million in debt. It could simply assign a portion of the debt to the athletic department. Alternatively, the University could charge the athletic department for a variety of things such as rent, etc. Imagine SJU rent in New York.

Agree that there is definitely "play" room in how the figures are reported (although supposedly there are NCAA recommendations being made to standardize how things get reported for purposes of better comparisons), but I think it is a criteria that could be used to determine how much money is actually being put into the overall sports programs. Whether it is being spent wisely is another matter.

Here is an example of Marquette's reported figures for 2006-07.

Operating Expenses by Team

Men's Teams Women's Teams
Varsity Teams Participants Operating Expenses per Participant By Team Participants Operating Expenses per Participant By Team Total Operating Expenses
Basketball 12 $183,678 $2,204,138 11 $84,267 $926,936 $3,131,074
Golf 7 $18,093 $126,651 $0 $126,651
Soccer 28 $6,716 $188,041 33 $7,641 $252,157 $440,198
Tennis 9 $9,139 $82,248 12 $7,937 $95,239 $177,487
Track and Field,X-Country 46 $3,159 $145,306 52 $1,289 $67,030 $212,336
Volleyball $0 14 $17,313 $242,375 $242,375
Total Operating Expenses Men's and Women's Teams 102 $2,746,384 122 $1,583,737 $4,330,121
CAVEAT

Expenses by Team

Varsity Teams Men's Teams Women's Teams Total
Basketball $7,993,191 $2,574,568 $10,567,759
Football
Total Expenses of all Sports, Except Football and Basketball, Combined $1,751,152 $2,864,787 $4,615,939
Total Expenses Men's and Women's Teams $9,744,343 $5,439,355 $15,183,698
Not Allocated by Gender/Sport $6,619,323
Grand Total Expenses $21,803,021

All institutions have the highlighted expense and it varies from institution to institution. If either that figure or the column marked operating expenses by Team were to suddenly go up significantly without any evidence of something going on that particular year such as an increase in schollies, hiring of 'name' coach, extension of a 'name' coach, new facilities, etc., I'd think if (and that's a big IF) such a criteria were in place, league officials would simply request an explanation of the figure(s) in question.

Cheers,
Neil

Gray Avenger Wrote:Did I hear that the Big East is going to require all members to have a minimum annual athletic budget to retain membership? Are DePaul and Seton Hall's memberships in jepordy? Is this the way for the Big East to bring in a couple more all-sports members? Why not? Wasn't Temple essentially pushed out for similar reasons?

It was a 'rumor' I had heard a while ago and reported on this board. I recently brought the topic up again when both UCF and Memphis in recent public proclamations made statements that their athetic budgets would be in excess of $35 million, the figure the rumor had as being the minima for the football schools.

Whether it is a minima for the football schools when they split, whether it is only applied to new members, or whether it is on the backburner for the conference as a whole, we simply do not know.

But I find it strange that two of the three prominent contenders for football expansion want it known how much they are investing in their sports program while at the same time, one of the schools spending below what was the reported minima for the bb schools made the commitment to fully fund lacrosse and have upgraded their bb coach (though not sure if Davis is getting as much as Welch was) as well.

From my vantage point, it seems like this rumor might have legs to it - or at least did prior to Mikey T's retirement. Maybe a new regime will be kinder and gentler, or maybe Mikey T saw the handwriting on the wall and didn't want to stick around for a different type of split?

Cheers,
Neil

ugh

The obsession of some outsiders with coming up with ways to kick some combination of DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's out of the Big East - in order for outside schools to take their spots of course - is completely ridiculous.

The Friars, Pirates, and Red Storm are charter members of the Big East and will only be leaving if there is a split. As for the Blue Demons, they represent a fellow Catholic university and are very close to the leaders of those other institutions.

The constant dwelling on this topic on NCAA-BBS, Rivals, and other internet message boards is starting to border on fanaticism. If the Big East stays together, we stay together. If the Big East splits, we split. That is all there is to anything.

I think this step in the right direction. You have to make the conference attractive. The growth of Louisville, Cincinnati, Connecticut and South Florida have put the football conference in postion to walk. Memphis and UCF would make solid additions that wouldn't hurt the football schools one bit if they split. Georgetown, Notre Dame, Marquette and Villanova have a lot to lose with a split. I see Providence, Seton Hall, and St John's going to A-10 and DePaul to the Horizon. A-10 should have room when Temple and UMass go to the MAC for all sports and St Louis goes to the MVC.

this is just more offseason meaningless chatter.. the BE isnt kicking anyone out.. nor is it going to split.. You have a bunch of school prez.. that like having a status quo thats known and safe.. even if its far from Ideal.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:The constant dwelling on this topic on NCAA-BBS, Rivals, and other internet message boards is starting to border on fanaticism.

Blame it on the greedy, hypocritical monopoly known as the BCS. Largely a matter of viewpoint I suppose. To a St. Johns fan such as yourself, I suppose there is nothing wrong with mediocre non-football schools preventing an all-sports university which not only plays football but has a better basketball program to boot, from taking its rightful place at the BCS feeding trough. Don't knock fanaticism (the root word for "fan") it is important for success in college athletics, and is an element which most of the your non-football conference brethren seem to lack.

Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah.

The significance of 16 of those is for the 16 schools which are currently in the Big East.

Gray Avenger Wrote:

Krocker Krapp Wrote:The constant dwelling on this topic on NCAA-BBS, Rivals, and other internet message boards is starting to border on fanaticism.

Blame it on the greedy, hypocritical monopoly known as the BCS. Largely a matter of viewpoint I suppose. To a St. Johns fan such as yourself, I suppose there is nothing wrong with mediocre non-football schools preventing an all-sports university which not only plays football but has a better basketball program to boot, from taking its rightful place at the BCS feeding trough. Don't knock fanaticism (the root word for "fan") it is important for success in college athletics, and is an element which most of the your non-football conference brethren seem to lack.

As an outsider I have to ask you: do you think adding Memphis is going to compensate losing the 8 basketball only schools with its large TV markets and tradition-rich programs? We can debate this all day long about the pros and cons of adding/subtracting members or if a split is needed or not but IMHO, losing the Philly, DC, Chicago and Milwaukee markets is more damaging than adding a school from a nonBCS conference like Memphis. I notice you like to call them parasites and freeloaders, that's far from true....especially for programs like Villanova, Georgetown and Marquette which been to the Final Four recently.

If a split happens and if the BE decides to add just one team, only one school makes sense: UCF, if a 10th school is needed, then Temple should be given another opportunity. What do you get in return? The Eastern version of the Pac-10 with a regional rival and 9 and 18 conference games in FB and BB. Like I said before, it's only my opinion and Memphis and ECU fans, spare me all these "we're more deserving" lectures. I know what your fine schools bring to the table and not to any conference.

Have a great 4th of July weekend.

omnicarrier Wrote:It was a 'rumor' I had heard a while ago and reported on this board. I recently brought the topic up again when both UCF and Memphis in recent public proclamations made statements that their athetic budgets would be in excess of $35 million, the figure the rumor had as being the minima for the football schools.

Whether it is a minima for the football schools when they split, whether it is only applied to new members, or whether it is on the backburner for the conference as a whole, we simply do not know.

But I find it strange that two of the three prominent contenders for football expansion want it known how much they are investing in their sports program while at the same time, one of the schools spending below what was the reported minima for the bb schools made the commitment to fully fund lacrosse and have upgraded their bb coach (though not sure if Davis is getting as much as Welch was) as well.

From my vantage point, it seems like this rumor might have legs to it - or at least did prior to Mikey T's retirement. Maybe a new regime will be kinder and gentler, or maybe Mikey T saw the handwriting on the wall and didn't want to stick around for a different type of split?

Cheers,
Neil

I don't think the Big East had anything to do with UCF's current budget. We were at $29+ million last year. Some season ticket holders locked in a year early for near 1/2 price tickets last season. This year they are paying full price plus our booster fees went up for new members that want to sit on the sidelines. We also we added a few more thousand students which adds more to the budget.