catdaddy_2402 Wrote:IMO the biggest reason Duke has allowed their football program to die a slow, lingering death is the fact that their demographics have changed from primarily a southern student base to more of a northeast student base. Northeasterners have always tended to be more into college basketball and pro football, whereas the southerners have tended to be more into college football.

Duke was the dominant football program in the first 10 years of the ACC. However, the school refused to relent on admissions that the remaining ACC schools eventually accepted, even Virginia and Wake. Now, it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Duke was the dominant power in the ACC before really athletic athletes joined the games. The smart ones usually aren't as athletic.

Great find Zibby At first, I thought it was one of those joke articles. I STILL can't quite believe this is for real.

And, contrary to popular belief, Duke's hoopers are hardly rocket scientists.

Duke has it figured out.

BcS + minimal investment = Nice return.

XLance Wrote:When the ACC was formed 53 years ago it was agreed by the University presidents (ACC) that they should de-emphasize football.
This took several years (Maryland won the NCAA football championship in 1953), but by the mid 60's ACC football was mired in mediocrity.

So what has changed....The ACC is 1-9 in the BCS era. That's a bit south of mediocrity, wouldn't you agree? The ACC would have to go undefeated in BCS games for the next decade to post a winning BCS record and thus become mediocre.
Are you sure Swafford didn't de-emphasize football with the ACC's expansion and didn't tell the Big East programs it invited. After all the weak sisters of the Big East, VT and BC, have for all practical purposes dominated ACC football since joining. Then again they may be following the Maryland plan after joining the ACC and it'll just take them a few more seasons to suck as bad as the rest of the conference. You can have hope though. Maryland finally got there and I'm sure the Hokies and Eagles will soon too.
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:So what has changed....The ACC is 1-9 in the BCS era. That's a bit south of mediocrity, wouldn't you agree? The ACC would have to go undefeated in BCS games for the next decade to post a winning BCS record and thus become mediocre.

Don't let your ACC hatred blind you. Any 12-school all-sports conference which has the likes of Miami, FSU, Clemson and Virginia Tech in the fold has the potential for excellence. I wouldn't bet on the ACC staying down indefinitely.

Gray Avenger Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:So what has changed....The ACC is 1-9 in the BCS era. That's a bit south of mediocrity, wouldn't you agree? The ACC would have to go undefeated in BCS games for the next decade to post a winning BCS record and thus become mediocre.

Don't let your ACC hatred blind you. Any 12-school all-sports conference which has the likes of Miami, FSU, Clemson and Virginia Tech in the fold has the potential for excellence. I wouldn't bet on the ACC staying down indefinitely.

Though it's true I don't think highly of the ACC you can't ignore the BCS results. The ACC would have to win every BCS game for the next 8 years just to be at 500. That's astounding, no matter how big of ACC fan you are or are not.
ACC fans will tell you there is more to good football than the BCS. They've argued that point on this board. My response is if the BCS isn't a big deal than give up your automatic bid to CUSA or the MWC and lets see what those conferences do with. I have no doubt that CUSA or MWC could go at least 1-9 the next 10 years in BCS games. ACC fans would have you believe that being in the BCS conference only matters when you win.
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:

Gray Avenger Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:So what has changed....The ACC is 1-9 in the BCS era. That's a bit south of mediocrity, wouldn't you agree? The ACC would have to go undefeated in BCS games for the next decade to post a winning BCS record and thus become mediocre.

Don't let your ACC hatred blind you. Any 12-school all-sports conference which has the likes of Miami, FSU, Clemson and Virginia Tech in the fold has the potential for excellence. I wouldn't bet on the ACC staying down indefinitely.

Though it's true I don't think highly of the ACC you can't ignore the BCS results. The ACC would have to win every BCS game for the next 8 years just to be at 500. That's astounding, no matter how big of ACC fan you are or are not.
ACC fans will tell you there is more to good football than the BCS. They've argued that point on this board. My response is if the BCS isn't a big deal than give up your automatic bid to CUSA or the MWC and lets see what those conferences do with. I have no doubt that CUSA or MWC could go at least 1-9 the next 10 years in BCS games. ACC fans would have you believe that being in the BCS conference only matters when you win.
CJ

CJ what you are saying is true to an extent. But CUSA and MWC ain't as strong as the ACC combined. I think MWC and WAC would do something if they pulled off a merger. But that won't happen.

The reason I harp so much about the ACC when it comes to the BCS is because Swafford and the Presidents of the ACC member schools tried their best to kill Big East football. Their "expansion", to put more money in their greedy little pockets, disguised it's a true mission, to kill Big East football that they saw as a threat. ACC leaders pushed for the so-called Big East Rule. The periodic review of BCS performances of each conference to ensure that the conference is still worthy of the automatic BCS bid. ACC leaders pushed for Boston College's last year in the Big East's BCS ranking to apply for them to benefit the ACC. Each of these ACC schemes were hatched with the sole purpose of destroying Big East football.

Fast forward five years.....

Big East Football, much to the dismay of everyone connected to the ACC from Swafford down to the ACC flamers that visit this board, is better than ever. The Big East has never been stronger. The Big East has been one or two plays away the last two seasons from playing for a national championship. (UofL in 2006 and WVU in 2007). The present Big East is undefeated in the BCS. The ACC's plan to have Boston College's Big East BCS ranking benefit them backfired with Louisville finishing with a higher BCS ranking in CUSA than BC. The ACC evildoers, foiled again. What I am most proud of is the BCS review passed this year and NOTHING, no a word was said about if the Big East belonged. The ACC would have been the only conference to say anything, afterall they pushed for the rule. The ACC leadership remained quiet because they knew the only conference close to not meeting the automatic BCS standards was theirs.

Now we have come to a crossroads....

Is it time to counter attack a weakened ACC? It is time to make Maryland an offer they can't refuse? It is time for the Big East to strike back at the ACC and work to destroy that conference. We have already started. We have started pushing the ACC off of ESPN. Every Big East Conference basketball game was shown live on ESPN. That's something the ACC always enjoyed until "the expansion". Now the only ACC tournament game you can find on national tv is the championship. Instead of getting stronger the ACC has shown it's weakness. The ACC is fragmented. The basketball schools are upset because the ACC doesn't get the basketball respect anymore because of "expansion". The football schools are upset because while putting more money in their pockets it has come at what price. Half empty stadiums for championship games and almost certian smaller tv deal when the new contracts come up.

The bottomline is the Big East has survived and prospered and the ACC can't do a damn thing about it. All of the schools that would benefit from jumping to their conference are there. ACC: Keep'm be glad you got them, we are.
CJ

Gray Avenger Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:So what has changed....The ACC is 1-9 in the BCS era. That's a bit south of mediocrity, wouldn't you agree? The ACC would have to go undefeated in BCS games for the next decade to post a winning BCS record and thus become mediocre.

Don't let your ACC hatred blind you. Any 12-school all-sports conference which has the likes of Miami, FSU, Clemson and Virginia Tech in the fold has the potential for excellence. I wouldn't bet on the ACC staying down indefinitely.

Take Miami off that list. They're not going to rebound for some time.

bitcruncher Wrote:

Gray Avenger Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:So what has changed....The ACC is 1-9 in the BCS era. That's a bit south of mediocrity, wouldn't you agree? The ACC would have to go undefeated in BCS games for the next decade to post a winning BCS record and thus become mediocre.

Don't let your ACC hatred blind you. Any 12-school all-sports conference which has the likes of Miami, FSU, Clemson and Virginia Tech in the fold has the potential for excellence. I wouldn't bet on the ACC staying down indefinitely.

Take Miami off that list. They're not going to rebound for some time.

And don't forget that FSU just suspended over half their team for cheating on tests. Opps forgot, it's FSU and the ACC needs a strong Free-Shoes-University. The ACC and NCAA will look the other way for FSU. They have in the past and they will again. So much for the so-called academic integrity of the ACC.
CJ

Number of seasons ACC teams were nationally ranked between 1953-62:

Duke 8
Maryland 4
Clemson 4
South Carolina 1
NC State 1
Wake Forest 0
Virginia 0
North Carolina 0

DFW HOYA Wrote:Number of seasons ACC teams were nationally ranked between 1953-62:

Duke 8
Maryland 4
Clemson 4
South Carolina 1
NC State 1
Wake Forest 0
Virginia 0
North Carolina 0

That's the makings of a BCS conference right there I'll tell ya..
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:

Gray Avenger Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:So what has changed....The ACC is 1-9 in the BCS era. That's a bit south of mediocrity, wouldn't you agree? The ACC would have to go undefeated in BCS games for the next decade to post a winning BCS record and thus become mediocre.

Don't let your ACC hatred blind you. Any 12-school all-sports conference which has the likes of Miami, FSU, Clemson and Virginia Tech in the fold has the potential for excellence. I wouldn't bet on the ACC staying down indefinitely.

Take Miami off that list. They're not going to rebound for some time.

And don't forget that FSU just suspended over half their team for cheating on tests.
CJ

I had forgot all about that situation. FSU might be worse this upcoming season than they were the last 2 seasons. They may even suffer a losing record this season.

cuseroc Wrote:And don't forget that FSU just suspended over half their team for cheating on tests.
CJ

I had forgot all about that situation. FSU might be worse this upcoming season than they were the last 2 seasons. They may even suffer a losing record this season.
[/quote]

Have no fear, it's FSU and the ACC. Swafford and his cronies will do whatever it takes to make sure Bobby and the Boys are at full strength by the season opener. Mark my words by the time this is all over, the FSU players are going to look like choir boys. Being in the the white-bread ACC does have it's advantages.
CJ

The situation at Florida State is terrible, and not the send off Bowden wanted for his lame-duck season. Next season, Jimbo Fisher takes over.

It's a hell of an ending for a great coaching career, and will permanently stain his reputation for the future. What will the history books say when all is said and done?...

Hopefully Bobby will be judged by what he has done over the last 40 years and not the last 4. I believe him to be a good man who has surrounded himself with questionable characters that have taken advantage of him.
CJ

Bobby's good nature, and willingness to permit people 2nd chances, have been his biggest faults.

Imagine that. Qualities all Christians say they aspire to acquire have proven to be his undoing.