Just seems like every bit of news spells doom for the Peabody Place and Beale St area. Dan Mcguiness was one of the few places I enjoyed going to down there. Thoughts???

Something big needs to be done soon. You are right. Peabody Place is doomed.

Maybe One Beale will trigger something good.

If the Pyramid were turned into something useful, that might help to get more people down there.

peabody place is just going to be an extension of the hotel now, which may not be a bad thing.

mcguinness had too much competition with the flying saucer & big foot right on their own block to really succeed, imo...downtown's doing fine; i'd say the rest of the businesses around there (with the exception of swig) would say the same.

I live about 3 blocks from peabody place, and I can understand why that place is declining. The 'cruising' that goes on on weekend nights is unbelievable. All they do is drive round and round and slow crap down. Recently (and in the past) the police would block off second between union and beale around 1 a.m. to relieve some congestion, but I don't see why they don't do it earlier. I also noticed (going into McGuiness about 11 pm last sat) that there are numerous seat belt violations, noise violations, and drug use by people in the cars. I can't figure out the the police don't start throwing up road blocks (sorry, "safety checkpoints" ) every friday and saturday night.

I was hanging out by the saucer the night of the Skynyrd concert and cops were writing tickets for seatbelt violations then, I guess the influx of rednecks may scare people from coming downtown, but the cruisers are welcome.

Dunno. It is really sad.

tigergreen Wrote:peabody place is just going to be an extension of the hotel now, which may not be a bad thing.

mcguinness had too much competition with the flying saucer & big foot right on their own block to really succeed, imo...downtown's doing fine; i'd say the rest of the businesses around there (with the exception of swig) would say the same.

downtown businesses are mostly struggling. there are some that do heavy business (Saucer being one) but there are too many restaurants. the number that have opened downtown since 2004/5 is huge for our downtown. combine that with attendence hits for Grizzlies and Redbirds. Peabody Place retail wasn't done right in the first place. It wasn't big enough to be a retail destination, and those stores were never going to thrive on the tourist or downtown resident. tougher enforcement of the no crusing zone is a must, but the only way to really get rid of the crusing is block off second and third from Union to Linden. But that cuts off the Peabody Garage and a couple of the Peabody Place garages.

ChattTiger Wrote:Peabody Place retail wasn't done right in the first place. It wasn't big enough to be a retail destination, and those stores were never going to thrive on the tourist or downtown resident.

can't argue with that....they really needed something in there that we don't have in Memphis. Ann Taylor Loft, the Gap, Starbucks & Victoria's Secret won't cut it.

No offense, but the thread title is as ignorant as the comments Phil Jackson made.

Downtown has more residents (28,000) than downtown Dallas or downtown Atlanta. It is expected to keep growing.

Is it perfect? No. Does it still have issues that need to be addressed? Certainly. Is it croaking? I don't think so. The population is still increasing and there are over $3 Billion (with a B) in development projects going on right now.

Every restaurant can't survive. It's like that in every city and every neighborhood in America. However, all of these restaurants and bars seem to be thriving...Huey's, Little Tea Shop, Elliott's, McEwan's, Rendezvous, Felicia Suzanne, Flying Saucer, Raiford's, E&H, Flying Fish, Pearl's Oyster House, Blues City Cafe, Rum Boogie Cafe, BB King's, Miss Polly's, King's Palace, Automatic Slim's, Bigfoot Lodge, Cayenne Moon, Westy's, TJ Mulligan's, Spindini, Butcher Shop, Circa, Blue Fin, Majestic, Arcade, Texas de Brasil, Gus's, Alcenia's, Alfred's, Grill 83 and many more.

The $90 Million Horizon project is under construction.

The Hampton Inn and Suites is supposed to be the highest grossing Hampton Inn in America.

The Blue Monky is about to reopoen on South Front.

The Lincoln American Tower and Lowenstein Building are about to reopen after redevlopment.

One Beale looks like constuction will start soon with very high dollar condos and a 4 star hotel.

Just because a few restaurants close and retail isn't working right now, doesn't mean that Downtown is croaking. Retail works in very few downtowns anymore.

3601 Wrote:No offense, but the thread title is as ignorant as the comments Phil Jackson made.

Downtown has more residents (28,000) than downtown Dallas or downtown Atlanta. It is expected to keep growing.

Is it perfect? No. Does it still have issues that need to be addressed? Certainly. Is it croaking? I don't think so. The population is still increasing and there are over $3 Billion (with a B) in development projects going on right now.

Every restaurant can't survive. It's like that in every city and every neighborhood in America. However, all of these restaurants and bars seem to be thriving...Huey's, Little Tea Shop, Elliott's, McEwan's, Rendezvous, Felicia Suzanne, Flying Saucer, Raiford's, E&H, Flying Fish, Pearl's Oyster House, Blues City Cafe, Rum Boogie Cafe, BB King's, Miss Polly's, King's Palace, Automatic Slim's, Bigfoot Lodge, Cayenne Moon, Westy's, TJ Mulligan's, Spindini, Butcher Shop, Circa, Blue Fin, Majestic, Arcade, Texas de Brasil, Gus's, Alcenia's, Alfred's, Grill 83 and many more.

The $90 Million Horizon project is under construction.

The Hampton Inn and Suites is supposed to be the highest grossing Hampton Inn in America.

The Blue Monky is about to reopoen on South Front.

The Lincoln American Tower and Lowenstein Building are about to reopen after redevlopment.

One Beale looks like constuction will start soon with very high dollar condos and a 4 star hotel.

Just because a few restaurants close and retail isn't working right now, doesn't mean that Downtown is croaking. Retail works in very few downtowns anymore.

Good post. And to add on that, there's a good mix of successful old and new restaurant concepts. What that shows is that there is a market for the right kind of restaurant/bar in the right place. Dan McGuiness apparently is leaving because the location is going to be redesignated (not sure, but reports are they are not closing shop but relocating to midtown). I think there have been a number of restaurants and bars that have been successful and have opened before and since many of these others that are closing. I don't see a real trend of declining health in the downtown market that is disproportionate to the overall economy.

talk to some of the restaurant owners and they won't paint such a rosy picture

the main problem with downtown is that it grew too fast. too much retail/restaurant development along with too much residential development beyond the demand. then along comes the bursting of the housing bubble, and you've got a lot of marginal projects going on right now. I like downtown. I enjoy going downtown. But unless they just want to build everything geared toward residential growth, they better come up with a few more reasons other than sports events and an occasional Orpheum production to come downtown.

Quote:Downtown has more residents (28,000) than downtown Dallas or downtown Atlanta. It is expected to keep growing.

which "downtown" in Dallas or Atlanta?

Did they keep the Maggie Moo's or the theater at Peabody?

ChattTiger Wrote:talk to some of the restaurant owners and they won't paint such a rosy picture

the main problem with downtown is that it grew too fast. too much retail/restaurant development along with too much residential development beyond the demand. then along comes the bursting of the housing bubble, and you've got a lot of marginal projects going on right now. I like downtown. I enjoy going downtown. But unless they just want to build everything geared toward residential growth, they better come up with a few more reasons other than sports events and an occasional Orpheum production to come downtown.

I feel sorry for some of the condo developers. They may be losing some money with the current market. However, the real estate market is tough right now nationwide. Downtown Memphis has grown LEAPS and BOUNDS the last 25 years. It's not perfect, but it is thriving compared to the 70's and 80's.

ChattTiger Wrote:

Quote:Downtown has more residents (28,000) than downtown Dallas or downtown Atlanta. It is expected to keep growing.

which "downtown" in Dallas or Atlanta?

Get off my porch...

http://www.downtowndallas.org/live.asp

http://www.atlantadowntown.com/DoingBusi...Retail.asp

3601 Wrote:

ChattTiger Wrote:talk to some of the restaurant owners and they won't paint such a rosy picture

the main problem with downtown is that it grew too fast. too much retail/restaurant development along with too much residential development beyond the demand. then along comes the bursting of the housing bubble, and you've got a lot of marginal projects going on right now. I like downtown. I enjoy going downtown. But unless they just want to build everything geared toward residential growth, they better come up with a few more reasons other than sports events and an occasional Orpheum production to come downtown.

I feel sorry for some of the condo developers. They may be losing some money with the current market. However, the real estate market is tough right now nationwide. Downtown Memphis has grown LEAPS and BOUNDS the last 25 years. It's not perfect, but it is thriving compared to the 70's and 80's.

Are you saying that kind of tongue in cheek? Why would you feel sorry for the developers? Most of the ones who are now losing money got in the game too late or over priced their projects b/c they were trying to be greedy(1st hand knowledge of this one). There are too many condos downtown-bottom line. End of story move on. Not to be blunt but the supply outgrew the demand at least a year ago downtown and I am one who wishes I could live down there but not with two young kids.

ChattTiger Wrote:talk to some of the restaurant owners and they won't paint such a rosy picture

the main problem with downtown is that it grew too fast. too much retail/restaurant development along with too much residential development beyond the demand. then along comes the bursting of the housing bubble, and you've got a lot of marginal projects going on right now. I like downtown. I enjoy going downtown. But unless they just want to build everything geared toward residential growth, they better come up with a few more reasons other than sports events and an occasional Orpheum production to come downtown.

Downtown Memphis is not the center of the metropolitan area. Downtown Memphis is on the edge of the city and county. The hour drive for much of the area keeps people happily in the suburbs

supertiger Wrote:

ChattTiger Wrote:talk to some of the restaurant owners and they won't paint such a rosy picture

the main problem with downtown is that it grew too fast. too much retail/restaurant development along with too much residential development beyond the demand. then along comes the bursting of the housing bubble, and you've got a lot of marginal projects going on right now. I like downtown. I enjoy going downtown. But unless they just want to build everything geared toward residential growth, they better come up with a few more reasons other than sports events and an occasional Orpheum production to come downtown.

Downtown Memphis is not the center of the metropolitan area. Downtown Memphis is on the edge of the city and county. The hour drive for much of the area keeps people happily in the suburbs

20-30 minutes from G'town normally. Not sure where you have to live to have an hour drive to get downtown . . .

downtown is catching its breath. and as usual when the first wave of development hits, lessons are learned (the hard way). bottom line the infrastructure is MUCH MUCH better for when the economy comes back around. that plus actually having a track record of what works and what doesnt will help the second wave be more successful.

one beale is coming back to life (although scaled back). south main and uptown are doing well. the next battle will be reclaiming main street. putting traffic back on it (sensibly) is a huge step forward.

BUT something HAS to be done about the cruisers. Back in the good old days, Audibon Park had the same problems with the old roads around the lake behind the botanic gardens. eventually, the city just dug up the roads to solve the nusicence. of course they cant dig up downtown, but there are ways to do it.

Think about this. On August 1, 1975 the Peabody Hotel was closed and was being sold at auction at the Shelby County Courthouse. There were two bidders...Prince Mongo and Jack Belz. Belz bought it for $400,000. Around that time there were only two or three restaruants Downtown that stayed open after dark. The Rendezvous, the Arcade and maybe one or two more. Beale Street looked like this. This is a photo from Beale and Third looking west towards the river.


Here is the same stretch now...

Dan Mcguiness should take the old swig spot. Also, I think that dowtown is great, one of the thigns that would really put it over the top is if they could get a target to go in south main and have a multi level store. Another thing that is lacking is a really good bookstore (borders, etc.). They also need to stat developing the area to the north so that all of downtown is progressing, not just the part near the peabody and forum.

newtiger Wrote:Dan Mcguiness should take the old swig spot. Also, I think that dowtown is great, one of the thigns that would really put it over the top is if they could get a target to go in south main and have a multi level store. Another thing that is lacking is a really good bookstore (borders, etc.). They also need to stat developing the area to the north so that all of downtown is progressing, not just the part near the peabody and forum.

You need to get your priorities straight. Everyone knows that a wax museum is what Downtown needs more than anything else.

Regarding the north side of Downtown...

http://www.uptownmemphis.org/