Seriously, who do you blame for the rising gas prices and why?

In the early 20th century, our political leaders made a policy decision to have cheap energy, in order to facilitate the growth of our economy. They accomplished this primarily by providing significant tax advantages to the oil and gas industry, which competition forced them to pass along to customers in the form of the lowest prices for gasoline in the world (outside the Middle East oil producing states). Better yet, the tax advantages favored domestic over international exploration and production, so we deveoped our domestic oil and gas resources faster.

It worked. We built the largest economy in the world based on cheap energy.

Unfortunately, it worked too well. Energy was so cheap that we fell into energy-intensive solutions when other approaches might have worked better. We used gas-guzzlers rather than more economical cars. We favored convenient solutions over less energy-intensive ones. We build spread-out suburbs with everything miles away from everything else, rather than livable central cities. We produced away our domestic reserves to the point where we are now seeing serious domestic production declines annually.

The problem is not so much that energy prices are too high now (actually, we still pay less per gallon than Europe and most of the rest of the developed world, although that diffference is and always has been mostly, if not all, taxes) as that prices were too low for too long and got us into many bad habits that are now proving hard to break.

There are no energy problems that can't be solved at somewhere around $5 to $7 a gallon for gasoline. Unfortunately, we have a society that is singularly ill-equipped to deal with that price level.

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:In the early 20th century, our political leaders made a policy decision to have cheap energy, in order to facilitate the growth of our economy. They accomplished this primarily by providing significant tax advantages to the oil and gas industry, which competition forced them to pass along to customers in the form of the lowest prices for gasoline in the world (outside the Middle East oil producing states). Better yet, the tax advantages favored domestic over international exploration and production, so we deveoped our domestic oil and gas resources faster.

It worked. We built the largest economy in the world based on cheap energy.

Unfortunately, it worked too well. Energy was so cheap that we fell into energy-intensive solutions when other approaches might have worked better. We used gas-guzzlers rather than more economical cars. We favored convenient solutions over less energy-intensive ones. We build spread-out suburbs with everything miles away from everything else, rather than livable central cities. We produced away our domestic reserves to the point where we are now seeing serious domestic production declines annually.

The problem is not so much that energy prices are too high now (actually, we still pay less per gallon than Europe and most of the rest of the developed world, although that diffference is and always has been mostly, if not all, taxes) as that prices were too low for too long and got us into many bad habits that are now proving hard to break.

There are no energy problems that can't be solved at somewhere around $5 to $7 a gallon for gasoline. Unfortunately, we have a society that is singularly ill-equipped to deal with that price level.

Ill buy that...The unintended consequences of governmental meddling in the freemarket has finally caught up to us.

We are approaching the end of another "age".

- Stone Age
- Bronze Age
- Iron Age
- Oil Age

You've got another 30-80 years before peak oil hits. We're already seeing annual declines in significant oil reserve discovery. When that happens, the price of oil will truly skyrocket and never come down again.

Few people realize how much depends on oil. Gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, kerosene, pharmaceuticals, plastics, pesticides, motor oil, lubricants, asphalt, nylon, polyester, paints, ethanol, industrial degreasers and solvents, isopropyl alcohol, styrofoam, paraffin, propane.

The first three in that list directly affect nearly all modes of transportation worldwide. The secondary effect is that any good that has to be transported any significant distance (nearly everything ... this is a global economy) soars along with the price of oil, because transportation costs are passed to you.

When we run out of oil, we will convert all coal worldwide to oil. There is enough coal in Montana to last US domestic oil demand for roughly 40 years. When world coal reserves are exhausted (another 100 years?) then you're looking at global economic collapse if a viable solution isn't in place. Coal is almost 3/4 of domestic power production in this country alone.

The "free market". Speculator SCUM that first bid NASDAQ to an irrational pricing point then saw the bottom drop out with the Dot-Com bubble busting. Next the same SCUM hit the real estate markets driving housing prices to an irrational high. The SCUM dabbled in the precious metals markets after real estate was viewed as a bad investment, once they found a new market they moved on leaving Platinum, Gold, etc. at record highs but not necessarily irrational prices. Now with the stock market in a Bear run, real estate dropping like a rock all the Speculator SCUM money is in the Oil Futures market. Not only are the prices already irrational they have nothing to do with supply and demand. There is adequate supply and events like political instability in a OPEC nation can drive prices up $10 or more per barrel in one day even though no change in supply was ever realized.

there's enough known OIl reserves to last atleast another 100 years, and probably alot longer than that if they'd start drilling again.

the current problem is complicated and multi-faceted, it starts with drilling. We could be Energy Independent if not for the Environmentalist, but instead we import 60% of the oil we consume.

Then you have the CAFE standards, the refinaries have to make(because of govt. Environmental regulations) around 60 different grades, they don't have the refining capacity to do it all and IF say there were just say 2 grades and they spent all their capacity making those two crades it would cut the cost way down.

the "not in my backyard" crowd, that has stopped Refinaries and Nuke plants from being built, two obvious factors to gas prices.


Speculators, and IF we made a committement to become Energy Indpendent adn start drilling, they'd eat dirt, bubble would collapse.

Corn Ehtanol Subsidies, idiotic policy brougt to us by the "need for alternative sources" crowd, the only way an energy policy was going to get passed through congress... Corn is selling at all time highs now, which is in turn driving the cost of all food up, along with gas prices. COrn is used to feed most livestock we eat, farmers are growing less Soybeans and other crops to grow more corn to meet that boom, which is in turn making those crops cost more as well. The demand for Corn has made the cost of Fertilizer go through the roof, which is a cost in all food we eat.......


and on and on....

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:The "free market"

FoShizzle in
3.................2.................1

Oil is the bloodline of our economy, and the worlds economy. It most flow and be affordable. It is a direct component to our Liberty, both collective and Individual, when the power supply to your PC cuts off you'll be able to understand it.

which is one reason why an assertive, muscular foreign policy is so important, in addition to the whole jihad/911 thing. the Middle East, Russia, Venezual, the Islamo-fascist and Autocrat states are hell bent on limiting supply to cripple our economy and make us vulernable. Its imperative the free flow of oil is able to pass through trading routes.......plus the dictators with absolute power are getting rich off what they do sell and are funding Islamic Jihad with the profits.

Iran would shut down the Strait of Hormuz in a second if we cut tail and ran, and all the oil that flows through it. If they did this in the wintertime the enormous spike in the price would kill many elderly and poor americans as they would not be able to afford(or get) the heating oil they need.

Then think about the fact that today only 2% of Americans farm and make their own food, this is unprecedented historically. What happens if the Oil supply dries up and all the food can't make it to yoru local grocery store anymore? especially those living in cities.

cb4029 Wrote:

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:The "free market"

FoShizzle in
3.................2.................1

You gotta admit that was a ludicrous explanation.

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:In the early 20th century, our political leaders made a policy decision to have cheap energy, in order to facilitate the growth of our economy. They accomplished this primarily by providing significant tax advantages to the oil and gas industry, which competition forced them to pass along to customers in the form of the lowest prices for gasoline in the world (outside the Middle East oil producing states). Better yet, the tax advantages favored domestic over international exploration and production, so we deveoped our domestic oil and gas resources faster.

It worked. We built the largest economy in the world based on cheap energy.

Unfortunately, it worked too well. Energy was so cheap that we fell into energy-intensive solutions when other approaches might have worked better. We used gas-guzzlers rather than more economical cars. We favored convenient solutions over less energy-intensive ones. We build spread-out suburbs with everything miles away from everything else, rather than livable central cities. We produced away our domestic reserves to the point where we are now seeing serious domestic production declines annually.

The problem is not so much that energy prices are too high now (actually, we still pay less per gallon than Europe and most of the rest of the developed world, although that diffference is and always has been mostly, if not all, taxes) as that prices were too low for too long and got us into many bad habits that are now proving hard to break.

There are no energy problems that can't be solved at somewhere around $5 to $7 a gallon for gasoline. Unfortunately, we have a society that is singularly ill-equipped to deal with that price level.

The reason Europe pays so much per gallon/liter is over 50% of their price is tax related, they could have cheaper gas, but their liberal socialist (Barack Obama) leaders have driven policies that include high taxes on gasoline. China subsidizes energy prices so they pay a fraction of what other consumers do. Most OPEC nations have gasoline prices less that $1/gallon.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

cb4029 Wrote:

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:The "free market"

FoShizzle in
3.................2.................1

You gotta admit that was a ludicrous explanation.

I'll stand by my explanation, Oil supplies have remained steady for the last 3 years. The largest consumer/market for oil, the United States has saw demand for gasoline drop to a 30 year low as of Q1 2008. I would suspect the same consumption trend is true for Europe. While China and India are seeing demand grow, I seriously doubt there is any evidence they are making up all that lost demand. Meanwhile US Oil companies continue to cut refining to maintain gasoline inventories at a consistent # of days supply artificially inflating gasoline prices by giving the appearance of inventory shortages and putting the country at serious risk if another major hurricane hits the US. One minor hurricane in the gulf coast area could drive gasoline prices to $7/gallon because inventories at storage facilities around the US are being held to a lower level to match lower demand.

"W"

cb4029 Wrote:"W"

Please explain.

Thinking that demand is going down is just silly. Annual world oil demand conservatively grows 1.5%. Read any of the reports on Peak Oil delivered to Congress.

Also, gas isn't strictly speaking more expensive in Europe due to taxes. The gasoline and diesel in Europe is much highly quality, cleaner, and more potent. That's why the exact same car sold and US and Europe will have two different horsepower ratings. The car that ends up in Europe will gain a few horsies strictly from running off better fuel. That's why nearly every car in Europe has a diesel option. You can buy diesel sports cars over there. Audi R8 Twin Turbo Diesel. Top Gear tested one and got over 40 MPG. That's on an 8 cylinder twin turbo. Here in the States you see long haul trucks (especially older ones) spew out sooty black diesel exhaust. Look closely at a new big rig, you can still see a constant haze. Over there diesel burns without such soot. Because it's cleaner and higher grade. It burns more completely. BMW is happy to offer a diesel package over there. It is an economical option, and only has the downside that all diesels have (slower throttle response). But they won't offer one here. Because it's only slightly more economical, and it won't be nearly as smooth or consistent a performance. A BMW isn't a BMW when it's jerking about when you stomp on the gas. That would be decidedly un-beemer-like.

GGniner Wrote:Oil is the bloodline of our economy, and the worlds economy. It most flow and be affordable. It is a direct component to our Liberty, both collective and Individual, when the power supply to your PC cuts off you'll be able to understand it.

which is one reason why an assertive, muscular foreign policy is so important, in addition to the whole jihad/911 thing. the Middle East, Russia, Venezual, the Islamo-fascist and Autocrat states are hell bent on limiting supply to cripple our economy and make us vulernable. Its imperative the free flow of oil is able to pass through trading routes.......plus the dictators with absolute power are getting rich off what they do sell and are funding Islamic Jihad with the profits.

Iran would shut down the Strait of Hormuz in a second if we cut tail and ran, and all the oil that flows through it. If they did this in the wintertime the enormous spike in the price would kill many elderly and poor americans as they would not be able to afford(or get) the heating oil they need.

Then think about the fact that today only 2% of Americans farm and make their own food, this is unprecedented historically. What happens if the Oil supply dries up and all the food can't make it to yoru local grocery store anymore? especially those living in cities.

I agree...I have no problem with Naval presence in International waters to insure shipping is unmolested and free trade is protected.
I welcome any other nation to do the same. Free passage over the worlds trade routes are essential to not just US but the worlds intrests.

GrayBeard Wrote:

cb4029 Wrote:"W"

Please explain.

He's an oil man.
Nuff said.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

cb4029 Wrote:

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:The "free market"

FoShizzle in
3.................2.................1

You gotta admit that was a ludicrous explanation.

I understand fully the frustration...but I think that governmental inteference is more to blame...ie...prohibition on building nuclear plants, drilling and extraction of oil from known sources and environmental restrictions. When you try to regulate the free market you dont allow it to find equillibrium as it does naturally through response to market signals.

In this order.

Speculation, decreasing dollar value, growing demand, insufficient refineries, political instability.

All of these add up to $135 barrels of oil.

And gts, my diesel car doesn't jerk about. I think it's quite smooth and has a pretty good performance for an I-4 with a turbo. I'll take my 37 mpg city and flexible fuel option any day.

perunapower Wrote:And gts, my diesel car doesn't jerk about. I think it's quite smooth and has a pretty good performance for an I-4 with a turbo. I'll take my 37 mpg city and flexible fuel option any day.

What are you driving? And what sort of fuel filter system does it have?

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

perunapower Wrote:And gts, my diesel car doesn't jerk about. I think it's quite smooth and has a pretty good performance for an I-4 with a turbo. I'll take my 37 mpg city and flexible fuel option any day.

What are you driving? And what sort of fuel filter system does it have?

2006 VW Jetta TDI with stock fuel filter system, if you want more info than that I'll have to get back to you on it because I don't know off the top of my head.

2006 VW Jetta TDI test drive