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LJBlazerFan Wrote:The quotes previously referenced the fact that some "governors" were evil (as the ones you mentioned). None of the quotes previously mentioned ever said that the "governors" represented God, his wishes or his decisions.

For most cases, it is assumed that the governors enforce the laws of the people. The U.S. government is not a tyranny that is hated by a majority of its citizens as the extreme examples you referenced.

The death penalty is a part of the U.S. judicial system - and it should be enforced appropriately as long as it is a part of that system.

Hitler was not greatly hated by his own people either... unless of course you were a Jew or Gypsy. The people of Ghengis Khan were also loyal and often times would lay down their lives for him. It's the people of other regions and countries that hated Hitler and Khan primarily... but what's new about that. The US knows a little bit about being hated, now dont we? Let's not pretend the US has a perfect justice system because it's far from it. It may be better than other foreign countries, but does that mean we should settle for what we have, simply for that reason? You may think so... I dont. The examples I gave were indeed extreme examples of evil leaders, but you dont have to look too long in the history books to discover the evils present in just about every nation of the world... and the US isnt exempt. What the US did to the native americans was flat out wrong... what the US did to the african slaves was flat out wrong... what the Union did to the Confederacy post-Civil War was flat out wrong... no government is ever perfect nor will it ever be. I dont have faith in "governors." Having said that, I understand that there must be accepted laws that must be followed to prevent civil unrest, but I dont trust my life in the hands of another human "governor." Leaders and governments across the globe are corrupt and no good example of moral authority if you ask me... and it's not ancient history, nor very far away from us now. I can see how you attempt to justify it Biblically, but I dont think it's right whatsoever to propose that we should be subject to death based upon the decision of one man (or multiple men for that matter). It's easy to say that death is justifiable conviction when you yourself are not the convicted. If youre ever convicted to death for a crime which you may or may not have committed, let's see whether you still hold fast to this believe.

Quote:well, theyre no harm to society.

In some ways they are not but they are a drain on society from a financial standpoint.

If Osama Bin Laden is ever captured alive should he be put in prison or put to death? I think he should immediately be put to death but have it a quiet thing so he doesn't become a martyr. However, if he were to serve life in prison then he can still be a harm on society from the standpoint that his followers will do what they can to free him. They will find ways to carry out more attacks under his direction. Having him alive will also give his followers hope.

The problem I do have with capital punishment is the time that it takes to put someone to death. There are many cases where a person sits on death row for 10 years but has been "rehabilitated". Many become followers of Christ and are truly sorry for their actions. At that point I feel that the prison system no longer puts to death the person that committed those crimes, rather a person that has changed and should live out a life sentence. Then again, those same people may or may not be genuine in their "rehabilitation" and may be doing it in hopes of getting off death row.

If a punishment is to be effective it must be swift and match the crime. Unfortunately, there is nothing swift about the death penalty and I feel that it loses it's affect when you just have these murderers sitting on death row for a decade.

BlazerSax Wrote:

Memphis Blazer Wrote:You have said that humans have no right to decide whether someone deserves to die or not.

Well I believe that humans have no right to second guess God.

I'm through with this subject. You liberals have your beliefs, and I have mine. We're not going to change each other's opinion. You believe the criminals deserve to live. I believe the victims do.

I'm quite conservative, actually.

Since you think I'm racist...who is the most ultraconservative racist of all time?

Adolf Hitler.

i was just thinking wow its been awile since sax said something stupid and then this. dont make broad statements about history you just show your own ignorance. although you did point out the perfect example of those who deserve the death penalty. sax study what happened in the camps and then come back here and explain how those responsible for what happened there did not deserve the death penealty. study what the japanese did in china and then try and justify that they did not deserve the death penalty.

as far as hitler goes fascism is not the end all of ultraconservative forms of governments and it was not restricted to germanty. and sax, genocide has been going on for thousands of years and it still going on today.

BlazerSax Wrote:Capital punishment is never warranted, no matter how grisly a murder. Life imprisonment is.

Relford was just 5 years old when he let the BTK killer into his home March 17, 1977. His mother, Shirley Vian, 24, was bound and slain as he watched -- locked in a bathroom with his two siblings.

Relford's nightmare began on the afternoon of that fateful day in 1977 when his mother, who was not feeling well, sent him to the store to get her soup. As the young boy was returning, he was approached by a man on the street who showed him a picture of a woman and her young child and asked if he knew them. He said no.

After the man entered Relford's home, he corralled the boy and his two siblings into a bathroom. Relford said he stood on the bathtub, peering out an opening, and watched as the BTK killer stripped his mother, taped her hands, put a plastic bag over her head and tied a rope around her neck.

That kid later turned out to be an alcoholic and a drug addict. He was never able to get over what happened to his mother and what he saw.

In that case the BTK Killer may have killed just one person but he ruined at least 3 lives.

BlazerSax Wrote:Capital punishment is never warranted, no matter how grisly a murder. Life imprisonment is.

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — A little girl whose decapitated body was found four years ago has been identified through a tip, and charges were being prepared, authorities announced Thursday. The slain girl, who had come to be known as Precious Doe, was Erica Michelle Maria Green, who was 3 when she died. The body was found near an intersection on April 28, 2001, with her head later found nearby.

QUOTE (BlazerSax @ Apr 30 2005, 05:13 PM)
Capital punishment is never warranted, no matter how grisly a murder. Life imprisonment is.




the 14-year-old black teen who was kidnapped and mutilated about 50 years ago in an infamous case that was one of the sparks of the civil rights movement.

The teen was abducted in Money, Mississippi, in August 1955 for reportedly whistling at a white woman. His mutilated body was found a few days later.

Nownow, Draak. You know all those guys may be innocent. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: We should just put them in Alaska. :rofl: .

draak ijveraar Wrote:

BlazerSax Wrote:Capital punishment is never warranted, no matter how grisly a murder. Life imprisonment is.

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — A little girl whose decapitated body was found four years ago has been identified through a tip, and charges were being prepared, authorities announced Thursday. The slain girl, who had come to be known as Precious Doe, was Erica Michelle Maria Green, who was 3 when she died. The body was found near an intersection on April 28, 2001, with her head later found nearby.

What's worse about that case is that it's the mother that is suspected of decapitating the girl. My question is why on earth do some of these people have kids when its apparent they arent capable of acting like responsible human beings, much less a parent.

draak ijveraar Wrote:

BlazerSax Wrote:

Memphis Blazer Wrote:You have said that humans have no right to decide whether someone deserves to die or not.

Well I believe that humans have no right to second guess God.

I'm through with this subject. You liberals have your beliefs, and I have mine. We're not going to change each other's opinion. You believe the criminals deserve to live. I believe the victims do.

I'm quite conservative, actually.

Since you think I'm racist...who is the most ultraconservative racist of all time?

Adolf Hitler.

i was just thinking wow its been awile since sax said something stupid and then this. dont make broad statements about history you just show your own ignorance. although you did point out the perfect example of those who deserve the death penalty. sax study what happened in the camps and then come back here and explain how those responsible for what happened there did not deserve the death penealty. study what the japanese did in china and then try and justify that they did not deserve the death penalty.

as far as hitler goes fascism is not the end all of ultraconservative forms of governments and it was not restricted to germanty. and sax, genocide has been going on for thousands of years and it still going on today.

We are not God.

Life imprisonment is more torture than a quick and easy execution.

Blazer85 Wrote:

draak ijveraar Wrote:

BlazerSax Wrote:Capital punishment is never warranted, no matter how grisly a murder. Life imprisonment is.

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — A little girl whose decapitated body was found four years ago has been identified through a tip, and charges were being prepared, authorities announced Thursday. The slain girl, who had come to be known as Precious Doe, was Erica Michelle Maria Green, who was 3 when she died. The body was found near an intersection on April 28, 2001, with her head later found nearby.

What's worse about that case is that it's the mother that is suspected of decapitating the girl. My question is why on earth do some of these people have kids when its apparent they arent capable of acting like responsible human beings, much less a parent.

Severe mental illness.

BlazerSax Wrote:Life imprisonment is more torture than a quick and easy execution.

tell that to the prisoners who are watching hbo and lifting weights on my tax dollars. some guys commit crimes so that they go to prison because its better than what they had before.

BlazerSax Wrote:Severe mental illness.

im sick of that excuse. unless someone has mental retardation to where they dont know right from wrong, then its bs. i dont care if someone's schizo personality killed someone. they still know right from wrong. all this temporary insanity crap is bs too. several people on here could claim temporary insanity and kill sax from reading his posts.

BlazerSax Wrote:Life imprisonment is more torture than a quick and easy execution.

i think torture is a good idea for people that abuse and murder children. torture followed by execution. the type and amount of torture should be decided by the extent of the crime.

Blazer85 Wrote:

Smaug Wrote:Forgiveness and punishment are mutually independent.

If Little Smaug throws a ball in the house, like she's been told not to do ad infinitum, and breaks a window, she will be punished.

I will also forgive her.

See the difference?  Whether or not I forgive someone is not material to the fact that they will face consequences for their actions.

Is capital punishment really a punishment though? While I realize most of us value life, many criminals are so messed up and exhausted that they're almost to the degree of begging for death anyway so they dont have to live out their pathetic, hopeless lives. Even if you DO believe that one human can decide whether another lives or dies, capital punishment is giving them the easy way out.

the vast majority of people on death row in the US do everything possible to put off execution. only a few waive the appeals process.

Blazer85 Wrote:And Hitler was a governor... as was Ghengis Khan...as were many others corrupt, vile leaders of the world.

Temujin (Genghis Khan) does not belong in your example.

dfarr Wrote:several people on here could claim temporary insanity and kill sax from reading his posts.

Good Lord, do you realize what you've said?

Half this board's membership is calling their lawyers right now.

I posted this originally in a thread discussing those who harm children. I think it has merit.

Okay, here's what we do.

To the men among us, at some point in your life, you've taken a shot to the jewels. As we know, the immediate flash of indescribable pain is then replaced by a dull ache in the pit of your stomache, making you want to simultaneously throw up and die, that lasts for about half an hour.

We take Mr. Pedophile, tie him to a hitching post, and every half hour, allow a family member or loved one lace up the steel toes, and kick him below the equator as hard as they can.

Here's the best part. Once the family and loved ones are done, line up the general public to take their shot at half hour intervals. Charge them $5 apiece. PRESTO! no deficit!

i actually think convicted pedophiles should be castrated. that would lessen their urges to a large extent. unfortunately, this also counts as cruel and unusual punishment.

Cruel is subjective, and it's only unusual if you don't do it to most or all of them.