IF C-USA east loses any schools, it could get real intresting with UTEP, Hous, SMU & Tulsa making overturies to the MWC

templefootballfan Wrote:IF C-USA east loses any schools, it could get real intresting with UTEP, Hous, SMU & Tulsa making overturies to the MWC

I find it interesting that that on one hand many C-USA fans talk about how happy they are in C-USA, then when the talk of a raid goes around some of the same fans are looking to jump ship too. But I guess one can't get too excited when the replacement teams will likely come from 3 areas. The Sun Belt, the WAC's La Tech, or a D1AA moving up...

E-zone Wrote:

Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:

E-zone Wrote:IMHO, I don't think Houston will ever have a desire to be in a Rockey Mountain based conference ever, unless they were tied to the BC$. I agree with what "hawghiggs" has said about costs, plus IMO Houston is not real big on taking chances, they are more of a status quo type of Sports Program. They feel comfortable in C-USA and their Eastern ties so why rock the boat and take chances you don't need or have to take.
I could be dead wrong on it, but thats just the way I see it right now...

I think in the current state that may be true. But if teams leave the CUSA, in particular Memphis and the Liberty Bowl, I think things change. Check out this thread on the Houston Scout site:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=215#s=215...&t=2563219

You can see several warming up to the idea of the MWC in the situation where the CUSA loses some teams.

FWIW, joining the CUSA instead of the WAC in 1996 was more of an aggressive move, IMO. And I think their current leaders are aware of the need to be aggressive in the current environment.

Again, a year ago, I don't think there was any interest on either side. Now, who knows, but I think the equation is changing and you are seing that in the sentiments of the fans. Reminds of me of the stages of realization TCU and MWC fans went through when the MWC became a rumor. TCU and MWC fans didn't exactly jump right on board with the idea- there was resistance on both sides. If the CUSA stays intact, I don't think Houston listens too hard. But if the CUSA loses teams, I think you'll see a shift of opinion.

Interesting read, but at least a few of them was in touch with reality about about future options. I have to smile with some of the Never, Never Land comments about getting New Mexico and TCU to leave for much weaker newly formed conference, that would have no Bowl tie-ins, TV contract, NCAA basketball auto bid, and added teams from the Sun Belt and WAC. The poster "CorinthCoog" who started the thread kept bringing up that in the MWC Houston would not be on TV ever, didn't surprise me after reading his list of new conference members (talk about brain dead).
The U of H
Rice
SMU
TCU-- MWC, what's your thoughts of the chance on TCU saying yes
USM
UTEP
UNT-- Sun Belt
Tulane
UNM Lobos-- MWC, not likely going to move to this conference
Tulsa
UAB
La Tech-- WAC

After reading the thread, I have to say I have feel a little more sorry for Houston. But I was surprised by how many of their fans think they should be in a BC$ conference or BC$ material. Don't get me wrong, Houston is a nice program... but should they at least average of over 30,000 in football to even talked about it.

Since the one Houston poster said he would not mind talking to San Diego St, UNLV, and New Mexico and that got "CorinthCoog" response I decided to compare Houston TV schedule with theirs...

Houston-
8/30 Southern @Houston
9/6 Houston @Oklahoma St
9/13 Air Force @Houston on CBS College Sports
9/20 Houston @Colorado St
9/27 Houston @East Carolina on CBS College Sports
10/9 UAB @Houston on CBS College Sports
10/18 Houston @SMU
10/28 Houston @Marshall on ESPN2
11/8 Tulane @Houston
11/15 Tulsa @Houston, TBD
11/22 UTEP @Houston, TBD
11/29 Houston @Rice

San Diego St-
8/30 Cal Poly @ San Diego St on Channel 4 San Diego
9/06 San Diego St @Notre Dame on NBC
9/13 San Diego St @San Jose St
9/27 Idaho @San Diego St
10/04 San Diego St @TCU on the mtn
10/11 Air Force @San Diego St on the mtn
10/18 San Diego St @New Mexico on the mtn
10/25 Colorado St @San Diego St on the mtn
11/01 San Diego St @Wyoming on the mtn
11/08 San Diego St @BYU on the mtn
11/15 Utah @San Diego St on the mtn
11/22 UNLV @San Diego St on CBS College Sports

UNLV-
8/30 Utah St @UNLV
9/06 UNLV @Utah on the mtn
9/13 UNLV @Arizona St, TBD
9/20 Iowa St @UNLV on the mtn
9/27 Nevada @UNLV on the mtn
10/04 UNLV @ Colorado St on the mtn
10/18 Air Force @UNLV on the mtn
10/25 UNLV @BYU on the mtn
11/01 TCU @UNLV on CBS College Sports
11/08 New Mexico @UNLV on the mtn
11/13 Wyoming @UNLV on CBS College Sports
11/22 UNLV @San Diego St on CBS College Sports

New Mexico-
8/30 TCU @New Mexico on Versus
9/06 Texas A&M @New Mexico on Versus
9/13 Arizona @New Mexico on CBS College Sports
9/20 New Mexico @Tulsa, TBD
9/27 New Mexico @New Mexico St, TBD
10/04 Wyoming @New Mexico on the mtn
10/11 New Mexico @BYU on the mtn
10/18 San Diego St @New Mexico on the mtn
10/23 New Mexico @Air Force on CBS College Sports
11/01 Utah @New Mexico on the mtn
11/08 New Mexico @UNLV on the mtn
11/15 New Mexico @Colorado St on the mtn

Maybe , it's just me but the MWC teams look to be on TV a lot more than Houston and it's not like San Diego St and UNLV have been powers in football lately...

Keep in mind though, a big emphasis is placed on their games being on the MTN network, which even if it is getting on more cable/satilite systems is far from mainstream.

Caltex2 Wrote:Keep in mind though, a big emphasis is placed on their games being on the MTN network, which even if it is getting on more cable/satilite systems is far from mainstream.

But if Houston was in the MWC, their fans across the whole Nation could watch the majority of their football and basketball games through Direct TV now. It's not rocket science, if you are a fan of a MWC school who lives in North Carolina will now be able to watch the majority of their schools major sports games by taking the Direct TV Sports package ($12 extra per month). Or go to the local sports bar and ask if they will put on the mtn channel for you.

E-zone Wrote:They might say that, but all I can say is they openly lobbied to try to get an MWC invite in 2004 at the same time TCU, Fresno St, Boise St, and Hawaii did. The MWC said they would give UTEP an invite if they could deliver the Sun Bowl... When TCU got the invite and UTEP was turned away, that was when they went after the opening in C-USA left by TCU's leaving...
So it not like C-USA was UTEP's 1st choice of options, like I said they still have way more history with the MWC schools than anything in C-USA. Their fans might say they are happy in C-USA and they don't like the MWC, but the people in charge are only worried about what would be best for UTEP and not hurt feelings...

UTEP was left out before TCU was invited. TCU was invited to spite the MWC schools.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

Cowboy Junky Wrote:Don't kid yourself. Utep would jump in a nano-second. Think about it. No one has wanted the SWC leftovers. They got dumped from the Wac 16. TCU left them behind to join the MWC. The Wac improved when they joined CUSA. The history that Utep has with the MWC heavily outweighs the interest in playing Rice, SMU, and Houston. Those are the three most attractive games for Utep. In the MWC they would have TCU, UNM, BYU, AFA, Utah...There a lot more interesting match-ups in the MWC, especially when you have rivalries with many of the teams.

Utep fans are too proud to admit wanting to go back to a girlfriend that dumped them, but they would in a second. Don't believe the hype.

The quotes I supplied did not come from any fans. They came from the president and the athletic director. They know what they want for their university much better than anyone speculating on an internet message board. The MWC, by the way, sure as heck did not care about its many years of history with UTEP in 1998 or any time since then.

Maybe not in football, but in basketball they did. You gotta admit seven league titles, five tournament titles and 13 runnerup finishes is pretty legit.

UTEP has good attendance numbers going in its favor and would make for a nice rivlary with TCU.

My concern with UTEP is are they going to be able to compete in recruiting. UTEP does not have have a traditionally strong football program an is struggling in the less competitive CUSA.

I would take another look at Fresno State. I think they would be good rival for UNLV and SDSU. I also think they would be very competitive in MWC football.

What the MWC really needs is to get the California schools going. The state of Utah cannot carry a BCS conference by itself. Utah and BYU should be mid to upper mid level programs not league leaders.

The number should be 10. That way the MWC can play a round robin 9 game football schedule like the PAC-10. Most D1 basketball conferences also have at least 10 members.

The WAC really relies on Fresno/Boise and the solid play of Hawaii to keep the conference strong. Every year 1 of the 3 is a top 25 team.

If you take Fresno out of the WAC that would really damage recruiting at Boise State. This in turn would help the MWC establish itself as the better conference.

If the MWC conference were to expand by adding a Texas team then at this point I am not sure if they would be able to get a CUSA school to come. I think realistically they can look at UNT now because our AD has stated that he is really wanting to join the MWC if we get an invite. At this point I think it is a possibility because we just passed an athletics fee that will bring in more revenue to our athletic department and we are set to break ground on a new football stadium within the next 6 months to a year. The only hurdle I think UNT would have in joining the WAC is opposition from the TCU party since there would be more competition in recruiting etc.

Green Mean Wrote:If the MWC conference were to expand by adding a Texas team then at this point I am not sure if they would be able to get a CUSA school to come. I think realistically they can look at UNT now because our AD has stated that he is really wanting to join the MWC if we get an invite. At this point I think it is a possibility because we just passed an athletics fee that will bring in more revenue to our athletic department and we are set to break ground on a new football stadium within the next 6 months to a year. The only hurdle I think UNT would have in joining the WAC is opposition from the TCU party since there would be more competition in recruiting etc.

Sorry, but I think any C-USA West team would look very strongly at moving to the MWC. The MWC has been the top Non-Auto football conference for quite a while now, even though the WAC has sent teams to the BC$ the last 2 years. MWC has a larger TV contract and splits it with less schools ($12 million a year split 9 ways vs $11.5 million split 12 way) and the way the two conferences have preformed the since the last negotiations the gap could reasonably get even larger. Plus the MWC has their our TV Network, that shows all things MWC all day long. MWC averages; larger budgets, higher attendance, and has really made big moves in facility upgrades (Indoor Practice Facilities, Student Athletic Buildings, Stadium, and Arena upgrades) to the tune of around $500 million in the last 5 years. New Mexico is starting a $50 million face lift to the Pitt, TCU is looking at doing a $120 million upgrade to Amon Carter Stadium, Colorado St has raised $50 million for upgrades (Stadium, a Student Athletic Building and a couple other things), and Wyoming is on their last year of a 3 year 1 Billion State funded spending project which could aid in a Stadium and Arena upgrades. So it does not look to slow down either.
The simple fact is the MWC has a very aggressive view of were the want to be and that is not just on the fields and courts. Which is in facilities, attendance, academics, and also on the field (or court). They want to be thought of as a big named conference (which I guess would be a BC$) or a highly respected conference.
Now as far as North Texas, I don't see it even remotely possible... they would be so far down the list it would not even be funny...
Boise St
Fresno St
Houston
UTEP
Nevada
Tulsa
Hawaii
Utah St
New Mexico St
SMU
San Jose St
Montana
and then maybe North Texas might be thought of, IMHO and don't take this a knock on your program. But the fact remains most of the MWC schools have been is the same conference as most of these schools or have a long history with some of the teams.

Games against MWC teams;
Boise St- 21 games, 6 of 9 teams
Fresno St- 120 games, 9 of 9 teams
Houston- 47 games, 8 of 9 teams
UTEP- 259 games, 9 of 9 teams
Nevada- 72 games, 8 of 9 teams
Tulsa- 60 games, 9 of 9 teams
Hawaii- 179 games, 9 of 9 teams
Utah St- 377 games, 9 of 9 teams
New Mexico St- 132 games, 5 of 9 teams
SMU- 109 games, 8 of 9 teams
San Jose St- 102 games, 9 of 9 teams
Montana- 75 games, 6 of 9 teams

vs

North Texas- 40 games, 7 of 9 teams

Notice, that all but Boise St has played more games against MWC teams (even Montana) and BYU has set up 4 future games, Utah has 3 games scheduled, and Wyoming has at least another 2 games scheduled.

E-Zone,

I am by no means disagreeing with you but realistically I think the only Texas CUSA team that would want to join the MWC instantly would probably be UTEP. I have heard a lot of rumblings that SMU, Rice, and Houston are all very happy in CUSA since they have established Texas rivalries. I think what SMU would like to be in the same conference as TCU but I am not sure if TCU is wanting that at this point atleast. So if the MWC were to add a team in Texas specifically I think their best shot would be UTEP or if that does not work I think UNT would be in the mix atleast. I highly doubt that they would add a D1AA member such as Texas State or anything like that. Now if they just want to add any CUSA team then I think Tulsa probably has a great shot right now.

Green Mean Wrote:E-Zone,

I am by no means disagreeing with you but realistically I think the only Texas CUSA team that would want to join the MWC instantly would probably be UTEP. I have heard a lot of rumblings that SMU, Rice, and Houston are all very happy in CUSA since they have established Texas rivalries. I think what SMU would like to be in the same conference as TCU but I am not sure if TCU is wanting that at this point atleast. So if the MWC were to add a team in Texas specifically I think their best shot would be UTEP or if that does not work I think UNT would be in the mix atleast. I highly doubt that they would add a D1AA member such as Texas State or anything like that. Now if they just want to add any CUSA team then I think Tulsa probably has a great shot right now.

Personally I use to be all for the MWC going to 12, but I don't see the MWC presidents jumping that way or they could have really done it when TCU was added. But I have always felt the the first team added should be Boise St.... Pure and simple, Boise St always gets the rap that they are only a 1 trick pony (good in only football), but it is and has been totally false. Sure they may not be world beater in basketball, but they were the only WAC team to make the NCAA's last year, they tie for 1st place regular season with Utah St with 12-4 records (but Utah St won the tie-breaker because of the head to head series), then won the WAC tournament. A lot MWC fans think Fresno St should be the first choice because they have better basketball program, but looking at the last 7 years (that's how long Boise St has been in the WAC) the numbers are just about the same (Boise St has more wins and Fresno St has less losses);

Boise St has a record of 118-97 and 1 WAC title (regular season)
Fresno St has a record of 116-91 and 1 WAC title
Both schools has had 2 20+ wins seasons;
Boise St: 2007-08 25-8 & 2003-04 21-9
Fresno St: 2006-07 22-9 & 2002-03 20-8
But Boise St has a 1 up on Fresno St over that time frame and that is Boise has made it to the NCAA's (2007-08) were Fresno St has not made it there in the last 7 years.

Women Basketball last 7 years;
Boise St has a record of 102-111, 2 WAC title (2006-07 & tie in 2007-08), and 1 NCAA
Fresno St has a record of 124-91, 1 WAC title (tie in 2007-08 with Boise St), and 1 NCAA

Commissioner's Cup (the WAC only started awarding it since 2002-03)
2007-08- #1 Fresno St, #2 Boise St
2006-07- #2 Boise St, #3 Fresno St
2005-06- #1 Boise St, #3 Fresno St
2004-05- #2 Fresno St, #5 Boise St
2003-04- #4 Fresno St, #7 Boise St
2002-03- #3 Fresno St, #8 Boise St

Now as far as UTEP, they would be by far and away my first choice of schools in Texas (unless Texas, Texas A&M, or Texas Tech were choices.... tic). But they don't add much right now, IMHO.
1) Travel partner for TCU, they are not much closer than New Mexico is... and who would be New Meixco's travel partner? San Diego St and UNLV; BYU and Utah; Wyoming and Colorado St; Air Force and New Mexico i guess is what it would be or Air Force and TCU since UTEP and New Mexico would seem like better travel partners. Adding Boise St it could be- Boise St and Wyoming; BYU and Utah; Colorado St and Air Force; San Diego St and UNLV; TCU and New Mexico.
2) Their football program is pretty bad and would hurt more than help the MWC gain ground against the BC$. Who is a stronger football program? UTEP or Boise St?
3) Even their once very strong basketball program has struggled some lately with being consistent;
2007-08: 19-13, t-6th C-USA
2006-07: 14-17, 10th C-USA
2005-06: 20-9, 3rd C-USA
2004-05: 27-7, 2nd WAC
2003-04: 24-7, t-1st WAC
2002-03: 6-24, 10th WAC
2001-02: 9-21, 10th WAC

E-zone, read good point the other day, If MWC took Cali schools, Pac-10 would hold up BCS berth. I don't think Tex would care. How about Boise St, UTEP & Hous. Would So div of TCU, Hous,UTEP, NM, UNLV, SDST. work

That is not the way I see, none of them want another BC$ conference, because it means they would have to split the pie by one more way. Also I don't really think the California schools really care which conference Fresno St is in, as long as it is not a BC$ conferences.
Plus the Big 12 and Pac 10 know that if the MWC were a BC$ conference they would loose some of their recruiting advantage over them. Colorado would not be happy at all with Colorado St and Air Force in the State and Wyoming also recruits a lot in Colorado. Both Texas and California are were the MWC does the majority of their recruiting.

(05-27-2008 05:35 PM)E-zone Wrote:  [b]The only Texas school that I could see the interested in ever in is UTEP and there is number of reasons why... Like;
1) Very good fan support, with pretty good attendance even in down years.
2) A nice TV market (#98 El Paso, TX, 302,470 households) in which UTEP controls the majority of the market.
3) Mountain time zone and are right on the edge of the MWC footprint.
4) They have a pretty good rivalry with New Mexico.
5) They had a a lot of history with the majority of the MWC school from the old WAC days...

Football games UTEP has played against MWC schools;Air Force- 15 games
BYU- 36 games
Colorado St- 33 games
New Mexico- 76 games
San Diego St- 22 games
TCU- 5 games
UNLV- 7 games
Utah- 33 games
Wyoming- 33 games
Totals games played- 260 / 9 = 28.9 average games per MWC team

Compare that to C-USA schools;
UAB- 2 games
Central Florida- 1 game
East Carolina- 1 game
Houston- 5 games
Marshall- 2 games
Memphis- 2 games
Rice- 11 games
SMU- 15 games
Southern Miss- 3 games
Tulane- 3 games
Tulsa- 16 games
Totals games played- 61 / 11 = 5.5 average games per C-USA team

So in other words it will take UTEP at least 25 more year to even come close to the same kind of history C-USA as they currently have with the MWC schools...

What you don't realize is that HOUSTON wouldn't pass up an invite to the MWC. Also, we don't just offer our TV market, but we ARE the nation's hotbed for FOOTBALL, BASKETBALL, and BASEBALL talent.....WHERE THE SEC AND THE BIG12 RECRUIT.
ADDING HOUSTON WOULD PUT A SERIOUS HURT ON THE SEC AND THE BIG12.......and would immediately help the MWC to gain the best talent in the nation.

Also, Houston has a long rivalry with TCU from the SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE and HOUSTON would bring a rich football/basketball history to the MWC. Most of our fans are in favor of such a move. HOUSTON is not content with C-USA as one of the fans posted here.....far from it.

(05-30-2008 04:19 PM)Cowboy Junky Wrote:  

Krocker Krapp Wrote:The words of the UTEP president and athletic director carry a lot more weight than anything nostalgic fans on internet message boards might desire. UTEP is now in a conference with three other Texas teams - one in Dallas and two in Houston - which is what their administration says they want. Giving that up for a league which can only offer one school in Fort Worth is apparently not worth it to UTEP. The Miners will become even more entrenched in CUSA if that league adds UTSA in a few years as the Roadrunners would give UTEP a fourth Texas opponent, one from the same university system, and a very intriguing potential I-10 rivalry to build in the future.

Don't kid yourself. Utep would jump in a nano-second. Think about it. No one has wanted the SWC leftovers. They got dumped from the Wac 16. TCU left them behind to join the MWC. The Wac improved when they joined CUSA. The history that Utep has with the MWC heavily outweighs the interest in playing Rice, SMU, and Houston. Those are the three most attractive games for Utep. In the MWC they would have TCU, UNM, BYU, AFA, Utah...There a lot more interesting match-ups in the MWC, especially when you have rivalries with many of the teams.

Utep fans are too proud to admit wanting to go back to a girlfriend that dumped them, but they would in a second. Don't believe the hype.

But would UTEP jump in a nano-second if Utah/BYU were gone and TCU possibly too? The MWC would be history without those flagship teams.

(05-24-2008 11:05 PM)E-zone Wrote:  

templefootballfan Wrote:Hous did look east, but that was with Memphis, Louv, Cin & before Katrina. If C-USA does take another hit, C-USA is going to have tough time replenshing the east division. Making stronger regional conf would be with schools that are projects. I'm sure a deleted C-USA would have Tulsa, SMU & UTEP making overtures to MWC. Hous might have no choice, Hous might think they have outside at SEC, B-12 & maybe BE. But that day may never come.
MWC would have to take advantage widing the gap between themselves & othe non-BCS conf.

Reading posts from Houston fans they are next in line for the Big 12 if their is even an opening. All I can say is.... Rigggghhhhhttttttt... Maybe they were told by some of the Texas Schools they were next in line, but I would bet that the the rest of the Big 12 schools would not be to excited at the thought of a 5th Texas team in the Big 12....

You are right, but it's not just the Texas schools that would be against it. All of the Big 12 teams would be against it. It's the same reason SMU doesn't want North Texas in C-USA, and the same reason TCU doesn't want SMU in the Mountain. They don't want to elevate Houston's recruiting status in one of the nations top recruiting markets, or create a situation where populations of a large media market might change channels and support the new team.

We know that
.... #10 = Boise St.

We have heard rumblings of a travel partner for TCU
......#11 = Houston
(and with the Big XII seeming to be ready to keep Texas, etc. in place we know any Texas school incl TCU will not be going Big XII)

So I think the conference rounds out to 12 with the addition of
#12 = UTEP
They are a natural rival for UNM and connects the rest of Texas to the MWC.

...... next in line if there were to be any defections to the Big XII/Pac-10 OR if the conference decided to go to 14 teams (if all major conferences go to 14 teams and the MWC is BCS at that point, which it should be with that line-up) are ... Fresno St., Hawaii

Everybody would then have a travel partner ...

Houston
TCU
-------
UTEP
UNM
-------
Colo St.
AFA
-------
Utah
BYU
-------
SDSU
UNLV
-------
Wyoming
Boise St.
-------

And if Frenso St./Hawaii added, travel partners could remain the same ... or Fresno St./Nevada added, then travel partners could be swithced to be ... Fresno St./SDSU, and UNLV/Nevada

Fresno & Nevada were invited to join the Mountain West Conference.

I don't think that Mountain West is still interested in Houston.