This guy nails so many points a long but great read.

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/...lly_l.html

I just got an e-mail about this from another NCAA BBS poster. The timing of this thing is almost surreal. A reader from Philadelphia sent Donnie Webb this long manifesto, as it is termed, about the future of the Big East and he put it in the blog for the audience to analyze. I don't know whether to be flattered or ticked off. This reader has copied so many of the ideas I have been advancing on this site over the last two years that I can't even count them all.

1) Expand the Big East to 18 schools with UCF & SLU ...
2) Renew the Get Out Of Jail Free Card a longer time ...
3) Invite the Big 12 to St. Pete Bowl to replace CUSA ...
4) Play the SEC in highest bowl - Independence or PJ ...
5) Schedules for 18 teams are totally copied off here ...
6) CUSA should replace UCF with Texas-San Antonio ...
7) Louisiana Tech might join the MAC in football-only ...

I can't get upset since I have put all of those things out there for public consumption. Many of us probably get things we write copied without credit onto other message boards and vice versa. This month is crazy. First there was the East Carolina thing in the Hartford Courant, then the alleged Memphis talks, and now the idea of 18 teams - including Central Florida - in the Big East is now in the Syracuse Post-Standard. Something has to be up somewhere.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:I just got an e-mail about this from another NCAA BBS poster. The timing of this thing is almost surreal. A reader from Philadelphia sent Donnie Webb this long manifesto, as it is termed, about the future of the Big East and he put it in the blog for the audience to analyze. I don't know whether to be flattered or ticked off. This reader has copied so many of the ideas I have been advancing on this site over the last two years that I can't even count them all.

1) Expand the Big East to 18 schools with UCF & SLU ...
2) Renew the Get Out Of Jail Free Card a longer time ...
3) Invite the Big 12 to St. Pete Bowl to replace CUSA ...
4) Play the SEC in highest bowl - Independence or PJ ...
5) Schedules for 18 teams are totally copied off here ...
6) CUSA should replace UCF with Texas-San Antonio ...
7) Louisiana Tech might join the MAC in football-only ...

I can't get upset since I have put all of those things out there for public consumption. Many of us probably get things we write copied without credit onto other message boards and vice versa. This month is crazy. First there was the East Carolina thing in the Hartford Courant, then the alleged Memphis talks, and now the idea of 18 teams - including Central Florida - in the Big East is now in the Syracuse Post-Standard. Something has to be up somewhere.

Are you sure you didn't write that?

I was just about to post that at least we now know your real name.

Cheers,
Neil

was that krocker krap?

Completely discounting the Memphis/Louisville/UC history causes me to take his stance much less seriously. Saying that Pitt lost Penn State in a casual manner as if that somehow makes Memphis being separated from historical rivals more palatable is a rather weak argument. There were several conferences built around the UL/UC/Memphis axis. To ignore their collective marketing power in the manifesto betrays an agenda.

This looks like a UCF plant much like the Memphis and ECU stirs of the past couple of weeks. Things are percolating for sure but I simply can't see 18 members. That idea is bad for the league; it would only compound its identity crisis.

Don't be silly, guys, you know you have never seen me write anything that long. I wouldn't even have the patience to go through all my old posts and collect so many ideas into one place. Whatever though. I'm glad at least someone in the media sees a little bit of sense in the concept.

A couple of posters on the Rivals board for Pitt have also been kicking around the idea of 18 teams in the last few days. I forgot to mention Randy Edsall's renewed push for nine football teams in the media yesterday as well. Maybe the Big East office will finally at least explore the thing.

You need a copywrite, that's out of your playbook i do differ on the scheduling concept....The idea of going to 18 with a football/catholic hoop school pairing is what the big east should do for the short term, say 5 years to see how it plays out with another get out of jail card. Yet, i think you go with memphis over c. florida with st louisU being the hoop school. From there, you got three options....stay with the 18 team format, 9 football school's split off, or really grow further into the 12 team big east, 10 team big central, and a 12 team big east football only concept with a champ game... which is my favorite outcome...that would be invites going out to memphis, c.flord, e.car, uab, st.louis, and umass, breaking off into two all sports leagues based on geography and funneling the football teams into a football only league. If one team left for the big 10, add temple or maybe uhouston....well if its ND, don't add anybody. As for why not going with just the 12 team football league for all sports...i just don't like it, it seems to be the land of mis-fit toys or cusa with school's not really having a bond + their is great value in some bball onlies but it works as a football only league.

I think we both need a copyright, Bluesox, because we have both been promoting the idea of 18 teams for close to two years. I wouldn't personally care if they pick Memphis over Central Florida if push comes to shove because both schools have a lot of positive attributes. I am a stickler about straight up scheduling with no divisions though in order to keep the appearance of a united front. I believe if they want 12 teams and a football title game then there should just be a clean split with Temple, Memphis, East Carolina, and Central Florida joining the football side while Holy Cross, Xavier, Dayton, and St. Louis fill out the basketball side.

Big East could just go with Villanova and not have to go raid another conference. This would avoid a school paying an exit fee and a enterence fee. Plus you avoid legal issues with a school leaving a conference for another.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:I think we both need a copyright, Bluesox, because we have both been promoting the idea of 18 teams for close to two years. I wouldn't personally care if they pick Memphis over Central Florida if push comes to shove because both schools have a lot of positive attributes. I am a stickler about straight up scheduling with no divisions though in order to keep the appearance of a united front. I believe if they want 12 teams and a football title game then there should just be a clean split with Temple, Memphis, East Carolina, and Central Florida joining the football side while Holy Cross, Xavier, Dayton, and St. Louis fill out the basketball side.

And to me, a Catholic league would utterly destroy Georgetown, Nova, Marquette and St. John's.

This is not to say it wouldn't be a good league for bb, but as pointed out in my mini-manifesto thread, once you get beyond those four teams, the other 8 are barely spending two-thirds or one-half of what those 4 schools are in terms of athletics.

Basketball will be fine, but all other sports will go down the tubes as the dead weight at the bottom drags the upper tier 4 down with them. And soon, even bb will suffer since they won't be playing the likes of UConn, Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, and Cincinnati on a regular basis.

Time to separate the wheat from the chaff. It will allow the football schools to grow to 9 or 10 while maintaining the major markets. It will mean more $$$ for the 4 bb schools who are actually spending the money and seeing dividends in other sports besides men's bb

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:And to me, a Catholic league would utterly destroy Georgetown, Nova, Marquette and St. John's.

I don't buy the wheat and chaff argument, but I agree on this point.

It's just more speculation...

L-yes Wrote:Completely discounting the Memphis/Louisville/UC history causes me to take his stance much less seriously. Saying that Pitt lost Penn State in a casual manner as if that somehow makes Memphis being separated from historical rivals more palatable is a rather weak argument. There were several conferences built around the UL/UC/Memphis axis. To ignore their collective marketing power in the manifesto betrays an agenda.

Not only that, this guy blows off the Liberty Bowl as insignificant. Yeah, like this conference’s bowl picture is so great with a second bowl, that is shared with another conference and ND, and whose chairman belittles the BE.

This hack is a UCF administrator masquerading as a regular football guy from Philly, yeah right.

Reading that bunch of bullsh*t I thought I was reading a UCF press release.

Memphis belongs in a "Southern Conference"...? Why because a UCF fan thinks so? Last time I checked Orlando was further south than Memphis.

ECU would be on an island in ACC country if chosen for the Big East? I guess that means Louisville is on an island in SEC country and Cincinnati is on an island in Big Ten country. What a frigging moron. His attitude toward ECU gives this UCF apologist away.

All I can say is it must be a slow news day in Syracuse for their football guy to print something like that. I would have rather read something from the columnist about how disappointed Syracuse fans are not be in that great football conference known as the ACC. At least the writer would be telling us something we did'nt know. ( yeah right)
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:This hack is a UCF administrator masquerading as a regular football guy from Philly, yeah right.

Reading that bunch of bullsh*t I thought I was reading a UCF press release.

Memphis belongs in a "Southern Conference"...? Why because a UCF fan thinks so? Last time I checked Orlando was further south than Memphis.

ECU would be on an island in ACC country if chosen for the Big East? I guess that means Louisville is on an island in SEC country and Cincinnati is on an island in Big Ten country. What a frigging moron. His attitude toward ECU gives this UCF apologist away.

All I can say is it must be a slow news day in Syracuse for their football guy to print something like that. I would have rather read something from the columnist about how disappointed Syracuse fans are not be in that great football conference known as the ACC. At least the writer would be telling us something we did'nt know. ( yeah right)
CJ

Ouch! Someone didn't like a descenting opinion.

(Trying to remember 4,000 Manifesto....), thought that person's point was that USF is out on an island today...and if ECU were added...that wouldn't be much different...as USF/UCF would provide traveling partners and more big east exposure in top 20 TV markets.

Every school has pluses and minuses...and its silly to be upset about any different opinions from your own.

Also...didn't you make a point on there about how UL might be afraid of greater recruiting competition in FLA?

Gee...ya think 'Cuse, Pitt, & WVU (Football & Basketball), and 'Nova hoops could have said the same exact thing when UL was invited to the Big East?

Being "afraid" of competition has to be the lamest excuse ever for not selecting a potential better candidate.

I can't imagine an 18 team conference. Most sports writers/bloggers/fans think 16 teams is too unwieldy. The basketball scheduling & tournament would be a mess.

KnightLight Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:This hack is a UCF administrator masquerading as a regular football guy from Philly, yeah right.

Reading that bunch of bullsh*t I thought I was reading a UCF press release.

Memphis belongs in a "Southern Conference"...? Why because a UCF fan thinks so? Last time I checked Orlando was further south than Memphis.

ECU would be on an island in ACC country if chosen for the Big East? I guess that means Louisville is on an island in SEC country and Cincinnati is on an island in Big Ten country. What a frigging moron. His attitude toward ECU gives this UCF apologist away.

All I can say is it must be a slow news day in Syracuse for their football guy to print something like that. I would have rather read something from the columnist about how disappointed Syracuse fans are not be in that great football conference known as the ACC. At least the writer would be telling us something we did'nt know. ( yeah right)
CJ

Ouch! Someone didn't like a descenting opinion.

(Trying to remember 4,000 Manifesto....), thought that person's point was that USF is out on an island today...and if ECU were added...that wouldn't be much different...as USF/UCF would provide traveling partners and more big east exposure in top 20 TV markets.

Every school has pluses and minuses...and its silly to be upset about any different opinions from your own.

Also...didn't you make a point on there about how UL might be afraid of greater recruiting competition in FLA?

Gee...ya think 'Cuse, Pitt, & WVU (Football & Basketball), and 'Nova hoops could have said the same exact thing when UL was invited to the Big East?

Being "afraid" of competition has to be the lamest excuse ever for not selecting a potential better candidate.

It's not being afraid of competition that hurts UCF coming to the Big East so much as potentially diluting a product. It's one thing to have Florida, Florida State and Miami all in BCS conference. Even having 2 of them in the same conference is something. But USF and UCF is a completely different matter. Miami, Florida and Florida State have strong national names, so other Florida schools might effect their recruiting, but not overly hurt them. South Florida, while making great strides nationally, it's possible that USF isn't in position to withstand another Florida school coming into a BCS conference and taking Florida recruits.

texasorange Wrote:I can't imagine an 18 team conference. Most sports writers/bloggers/fans think 16 teams is too unwieldy. The basketball scheduling & tournament would be a mess.

The Big East would never approve the 18 team league. Not happening but it is the offseason so this is the talk.

I think UCF make a good member with the largest budget in the C-USA, #19 media market, 44K in average football attendance in 2007, and C-USA east champs 2 out of the 3 years, recruiting location, and a travel partner with South Florida.

Memphis will clearly be another expansion candidate because of their market and national hoops team.

The C-USA has been good to UCF, so we will be ok with whatever happens.

KnightLight Wrote:Also...didn't you make a point on there about how UL might be afraid of greater recruiting competition in FLA?

Gee...ya think 'Cuse, Pitt, & WVU (Football & Basketball), and 'Nova hoops could have said the same exact thing when UL was invited to the Big East?

Being "afraid" of competition has to be the lamest excuse ever for not selecting a potential better candidate.

We already recruit against UCF in Florida, so what's your point? Why should we give away a recruiting advantage?

It has nothing to do with being afraid and everything to do with perserving markets. Obviously USF thinks so highly of UCF they refuse to play them after the present series ends.

As for the other programs in the Big East being afraid of Louisville joining, I'll answer this way. Do you really think Louisville would have been invited to join the Big East if the ACC hadn't raped them.

Just be glad you're in a fine conference like CUSA. You have a nice program in Orlando. Be proud of it. Just remember you don't have any history with any of the programs in the Big East like Memphis and ECU do. Anyone can build new facilities. We've built as many as anybody the last few years and continue to build more. In this type of situations history matters more than facilities.

I could be wrong and I hope I'm not. But the day the Big East announces that UCF will join the Big East I'll become a huge UCF fan. I'll defend them the way I do any Big East school today.
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:Also...didn't you make a point on there about how UL might be afraid of greater recruiting competition in FLA?

Gee...ya think 'Cuse, Pitt, & WVU (Football & Basketball), and 'Nova hoops could have said the same exact thing when UL was invited to the Big East?

Being "afraid" of competition has to be the lamest excuse ever for not selecting a potential better candidate.

We already recruit against UCF in Florida, so what's your point? Why should we give away a recruiting advantage?

It has nothing to do with being afraid and everything to do with perserving markets. Obviously USF thinks so highly of UCF they refuse to play them after the present series ends.

As for the other programs in the Big East being afraid of Louisville joining, I'll answer this way. Do you really think Louisville would have been invited to join the Big East if the ACC hadn't raped them.

Judging by the fact that it has been reported that Tranghese was talking to Louisville about joining the league in an attempt to appease Miami, I would say that there was no one in the BE afraid of Louisville joining the league.