PirateMarv Wrote:Every single word of your post may carry a bit of truth, however the success that Virginia Tech had in the BE is a compelling counter argument. IMO that program and their small mid-Atlantic setting showed the BE in a very positive light. And while many BE fans may want to distance themselves from that type of institution, it is not necessarily all bad; because Virginia Tech's departure actually helped Louisville to get into the BE. Finally, I see that some Cardinal fans (not all) intend to take the same position with ECU in the BE that they held in CUSA.

Viriginia Tech built their program in The Big East. In 1994 when talk of forming CUSA started the Hokies desperately wanted to be part of an all sports conference. They had been playing football in the Big East as a football only since 1992 but wanted full membership. They applied for full membership but were turned down. After being turned down by the Big East the Hokies wanted to remain as a football member of the Big East and play basketball in CUSA. When CUSA told them it's either all or nothing, the Hokies were left behind. This is a point of contention that led to VT and VCU filing a lawsuit against some former Metro schools about basketball to keep CUSA from being formed. The lawsuit was settled and VT joined the A-10. Four years later in 1999 they joined the Big East and the rest as they say is history.

My point is VT used Big East football and later full Big East membership to raise the profile of their programs. VT didn't make the Big East; The Big East made VT. Much in the same way you are seeing USF and UC build their respective programs in the Big East.

I believe VT is an example of what being in a conference like the Big East can do for your athletic program. While I agree ECU and Greenville might not meet the Big East standard of being a major metro university but then again neither does WVU. I don't believe I would be wrong saying ECU's program is in a better position today than VT's was in 1992, when the Hokies joined the Big East. As a matter of fact ECU beat VT that season. Their second win in a row over VT. ECU hasn't beaten VT since; The Hokies are 6-0 against ECU since. This brings me to a question for ECU fans:

Has membership in CUSA helped or hurt Pirate Football?

I don't think it's any question that it helped our program at Louisville to be part of CUSA but I was wondering about ECU.

As for VT leaving the Big East helping Louisville join the Big East, that's debatable. There were reports that Mike Tranghese was floating Louisville as a conference member BEFORE the ACC raid. There is no way of knowing if that would of happened because the ACC expanded but one thing is certian. VT would never have supported Louisville to the Big East.

BTW I have said since day 1 if the Big East takes one my personal choice would be Memphis. I wouldn't be upset if the league took ECU instead and I see the positives that being part of a conference with the Pirates.
CJ

PirateMarv Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:I think we're missing an important point here that being population centers in major markets. The Big East butters its bread with metropolitan universities. In our case we are by far the largest city in our state and in the city we (UofL) command the market. Beyond population there is concentrated wealth in these urban centers. I would suspect that Louisville fans on average out earn their UK counterparts one reason being the vast majority of Kentucky fans have never set foot on a college campus.

We are a relatively poor state and state resources are dumped into UK. The fact that UofL has such a powerful sports program with little in terms of state financial support speaks to the wealth in the community, its corporate citizens and alumni base. These are people you want to advertise to. These are people who will travel all over the damn place to watch basketball and football games, these are people with disposable income.

These dynamics make our conference work to different extents across the all-sport membership. I think Memphis fits this mold. I think ECU and Greenville does not.

Every single word of your post may carry a bit of truth, however the success that Virginia Tech had in the BE is a compelling counter argument. IMO that program and their small mid-Atlantic setting showed the BE in a very positive light. And while many BE fans may want to distance themselves from that type of institution, it is not necessarily all bad; because Virginia Tech's departure actually helped Louisville to get into the BE. Finally, I see that some Cardinal fans (not all) intend to take the same position with ECU in the BE that they held in CUSA.

You forget WVU. Kentucky has so much more money to pump into UK than WVU gets from the State of West Virginia.

And I dare you to find a smaller population base.

bitcruncher Wrote:You forget WVU. Kentucky has so much more money to pump into UK than WVU gets from the State of West Virginia.
And I dare you to find a smaller population base.

Bit,
West Virginia and East Kentucky coal have kept the lights on in the Northeast for decades. United Mine Workers don't get the credit they deserve for what they do for our nation. It's time these hard working folks and their states got paid for what they do.
CJ

No kidding. But that's been our history. We work our butts off for next to nothing, hoping to survive to see the next season. The rest of the nation profits from our labor, and with the advent of strip mining, they are leaving us nothing but the torn up countryside to look at - and toxic minerals in our water table.

No amount of pay is worth that.

L-yes Wrote:I think we're missing an important point here that being population centers in major markets. The Big East butters its bread with metropolitan universities. In our case we are by far the largest city in our state and in the city we (UofL) command the market. Beyond population there is concentrated wealth in these urban centers. I would suspect that Louisville fans on average out earn their UK counterparts one reason being the vast majority of Kentucky fans have never set foot on a college campus.

We are a relatively poor state and state resources are dumped into UK. The fact that UofL has such a powerful sports program with little in terms of state financial support speaks to the wealth in the community, its corporate citizens and alumni base. These are people you want to advertise to. These are people who will travel all over the damn place to watch basketball and football games, these are people with disposable income.

These dynamics make our conference work to different extents across the all-sport membership. I think Memphis fits this mold. I think ECU and Greenville does not.

Again, as already pointed out, the counter argument to the above is VT and Blacksburg.

And unlike VT, ECU would likely give the Big East penetration into far better markets than the Hokies did - Raleigh and Charlotte.

Now, will they carry those two markets in the manner that Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis carry theirs? No.

But the very fact that there would be market reach into North Carolina, one of the most affluent states in the country can possibly pay dividends for the league down the road.

My preference and bias, is always towards a PSU, Miami, and/or BC first, if not them, then Memphis, then ECU, then UCF while acknowledging from the BE Football presidents point of view the preference for the latter three would more likely be UCF, then Memphis, then ECU.

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:......while acknowledging from the BE Football presidents point of view the preference for the latter three would more likely be UCF, then Memphis, then ECU.

Cheers,
Neil

I'm curious to why you would think the Presidents would favor UCF over Memphis or ECU for that matter. While UCF has made great strides since 2003 with facilities and on the field accomplishments, the fact of the matter is the thing that made USF so attractive to the Big East in 2003 make UCF unattractive to the Big East today...location.
Presently Rutgers, WVU and Louisville all heavily recruit Florida. Add to that the growing presence of USF and that's half of the Big East battling for players in the Sunshine State.
I would think the Presidents of the aforementioned schools would all stand opposed to UCF.
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:

PirateMarv Wrote:Every single word of your post may carry a bit of truth, however the success that Virginia Tech had in the BE is a compelling counter argument. IMO that program and their small mid-Atlantic setting showed the BE in a very positive light. And while many BE fans may want to distance themselves from that type of institution, it is not necessarily all bad; because Virginia Tech's departure actually helped Louisville to get into the BE. Finally, I see that some Cardinal fans (not all) intend to take the same position with ECU in the BE that they held in CUSA.

Viriginia Tech built their program in The Big East. In 1994 when talk of forming CUSA started the Hokies desperately wanted to be part of an all sports conference. They had been playing football in the Big East as a football only since 1992 but wanted full membership. They applied for full membership but were turned down. After being turned down by the Big East the Hokies wanted to remain as a football member of the Big East and play basketball in CUSA. When CUSA told them it's either all or nothing, the Hokies were left behind. This is a point of contention that led to VT and VCU filing a lawsuit against some former Metro schools about basketball to keep CUSA from being formed. The lawsuit was settled and VT joined the A-10. Four years later in 1999 they joined the Big East and the rest as they say is history.

My point is VT used Big East football and later full Big East membership to raise the profile of their programs. VT didn't make the Big East; The Big East made VT. Much in the same way you are seeing USF and UC build their respective programs in the Big East.

I believe VT is an example of what being in a conference like the Big East can do for your athletic program. While I agree ECU and Greenville might not meet the Big East standard of being a major metro university but then again neither does WVU. I don't believe I would be wrong saying ECU's program is in a better position today than VT's was in 1992, when the Hokies joined the Big East. As a matter of fact ECU beat VT that season. Their second win in a row over VT. ECU hasn't beaten VT since; The Hokies are 6-0 against ECU since. This brings me to a question for ECU fans:

Has membership in CUSA helped or hurt Pirate Football?

I don't think it's any question that it helped our program at Louisville to be part of CUSA but I was wondering about ECU.

As for VT leaving the Big East helping Louisville join the Big East, that's debatable. There were reports that Mike Tranghese was floating Louisville as a conference member BEFORE the ACC raid. There is no way of knowing if that would of happened because the ACC expanded but one thing is certian. VT would never have supported Louisville to the Big East.

BTW I have said since day 1 if the Big East takes one my personal choice would be Memphis. I wouldn't be upset if the league took ECU instead and I see the positives that being part of a conference with the Pirates.
CJ

I agree with you that the BE made VT, rather than the VT making the BE. My point was that VT was able to expose BE football to fans in a region where BE football was absent. Miami was good for your league, but they were so far away from the other schools that sometimes it didn't look like they were in the BE. VT was just the opposite; they fit your league perfectlyl and were a natural fit next to Pitt and WVU.

I also agree with your comments about Louisville probably ending up in the BE at some point; because your athletic programs needed a larger conference to help you to remain at the forefront. However, the ACC's actions did speed the process along.

Finally, I think that CUSA has been a pretty good conference for ECU; we have not had the success that we once had, but with the stability that we now have in the AD and coaching ranks, it appears that we are poised for good seasons in multiple sports.

Being in the BE has definitely ratcheted UC up to the next level. I have no problem admitting that.

CardinalJim Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:......while acknowledging from the BE Football presidents point of view the preference for the latter three would more likely be UCF, then Memphis, then ECU.

Cheers,
Neil

I'm curious to why you would think the Presidents would favor UCF over Memphis or ECU for that matter. While UCF has made great strides since 2003 with facilities and on the field accomplishments, the fact of the matter is the thing that made USF so attractive to the Big East in 2003 make UCF unattractive to the Big East today...location.
Presently Rutgers, WVU and Louisville all heavily recruit Florida. Add to that the growing presence of USF and that's half of the Big East battling for players in the Sunshine State.
I would think the Presidents of the aforementioned schools would all stand opposed to UCF.
CJ

Again, I think one has to look at the failure of UCF to get an all-sports invite last time (2203) having more to do with:

1) Mikey T wanting Tampa and its market more than wanting Orlando and its market.

2) The facilities, particularly with USF playing at Raymond James were better

3) The academic reputations were about equal in terms of undergrad population, but USF was (and still is) the superior research institution

So it wasn't so much that they didn't want UCF, but that as an all-sports member, they preferred USF to UCF, Memphis, Temple, and ECU.

UCF has improved all of the above and still resides in a powerful market area.

Now, I can see some ADs, some football coaches, and USF in particular objecting to their admission, but for the most part, I think the presidents would prefer the Golden Knights over the other two programs if a vote were being taken now.

Just my gut feeling, though. I've been known to be wrong before.

Cheers,
Neil

UCF has the following appeal to BE schools.

1. Guaranteed Florida trip every year for member schools.
2. Travel partner for USF. Some discount this but for the non revenue sports it can save travel costs and thus reduce travel expenses overall.
3. Good TV market
4. Within current BE footprint
5. Facilities have been vastly improved and a commitment to success has been shown.

USF will not publicly oppose UCF. In fact I wouldn't be suprised to see the Governor of FL pull a stunt like the VA governor used to get VA Tech into the ACC. I suspect USF will in fact motion to accept UCF when it is all said and done. WVU will motion for Marshall and that will be summarily dismissed by the member schools.

Good call Shannon as far as the Florida Governor (is it still Jeb Bush?) POSSIBLY pulling a power play. The problem with UCF is that fact that there are so many Florida schools they may not feel that much of an obligation to do that for Central Florida. The advantage of adding UCF as a 9th member is that fact that it would gaurantee that every Big East school would make a trip to Florida every year.

UCF was under consideration for inclusion as a fb only during the last shakeup. They are the only other school in FL that has any chance of being included. I would have to think the state of FL has a significant investment in those new facilities, and would like to see a return on that investment. That is why I think you'll see UCF as the 9th or 10th member of the new all sports conference.

bitcruncher Wrote:

PirateMarv Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:I think we're missing an important point here that being population centers in major markets. The Big East butters its bread with metropolitan universities. In our case we are by far the largest city in our state and in the city we (UofL) command the market. Beyond population there is concentrated wealth in these urban centers. I would suspect that Louisville fans on average out earn their UK counterparts one reason being the vast majority of Kentucky fans have never set foot on a college campus.

We are a relatively poor state and state resources are dumped into UK. The fact that UofL has such a powerful sports program with little in terms of state financial support speaks to the wealth in the community, its corporate citizens and alumni base. These are people you want to advertise to. These are people who will travel all over the damn place to watch basketball and football games, these are people with disposable income.

These dynamics make our conference work to different extents across the all-sport membership. I think Memphis fits this mold. I think ECU and Greenville does not.

Every single word of your post may carry a bit of truth, however the success that Virginia Tech had in the BE is a compelling counter argument. IMO that program and their small mid-Atlantic setting showed the BE in a very positive light. And while many BE fans may want to distance themselves from that type of institution, it is not necessarily all bad; because Virginia Tech's departure actually helped Louisville to get into the BE. Finally, I see that some Cardinal fans (not all) intend to take the same position with ECU in the BE that they held in CUSA.

You forget WVU. Kentucky has so much more money to pump into UK than WVU gets from the State of West Virginia.

And I dare you to find a smaller population base.

I didn't forget WVU as much as I didn't feel the need to include them, Rutgers or UConn in the discussion. Being a flagship state university speaks for itself. The rest of us in the league fit the mold I was describing. Either you're a flagship or major metropolitan university, i.e. Miami, Louisville, PITT, UC, etc. ECU is like Western Kentucky University to me not just in name. WKU is probably the thrid rung as far as profile goes in the state. They have a nice university and an admrible sports program. That said they are located in Bowling Green serving primarily Kentuckians, they are happy to be playing in the sun belt and having 'one shining moment' on occation. ECU is just not up to the standard of the Big East all-sport members.

Minges is a cracker box gym and their basketball program wouldn't be acceptable in the Missouri Valley or A10.

They are at best 4th on the totem pole in their home state behind Duke, UNC and NC State. Maybe even Wake Forest.

They won a liberty bowl about 20 years ago. I know they have a nice fan follwing for football but I can't imagine that is all the Big East would look for which is why I'm not surprised that ECU is ready to give up everything for a chance to play in the league.

They simply don't fit and they know it.

omnicarrier Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:I think we're missing an important point here that being population centers in major markets. The Big East butters its bread with metropolitan universities. In our case we are by far the largest city in our state and in the city we (UofL) command the market. Beyond population there is concentrated wealth in these urban centers. I would suspect that Louisville fans on average out earn their UK counterparts one reason being the vast majority of Kentucky fans have never set foot on a college campus.

We are a relatively poor state and state resources are dumped into UK. The fact that UofL has such a powerful sports program with little in terms of state financial support speaks to the wealth in the community, its corporate citizens and alumni base. These are people you want to advertise to. These are people who will travel all over the damn place to watch basketball and football games, these are people with disposable income.

These dynamics make our conference work to different extents across the all-sport membership. I think Memphis fits this mold. I think ECU and Greenville does not.

Again, as already pointed out, the counter argument to the above is VT and Blacksburg.

And unlike VT, ECU would likely give the Big East penetration into far better markets than the Hokies did - Raleigh and Charlotte.

Now, will they carry those two markets in the manner that Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis carry theirs? No.

But the very fact that there would be market reach into North Carolina, one of the most affluent states in the country can possibly pay dividends for the league down the road.

My preference and bias, is always towards a PSU, Miami, and/or BC first, if not them, then Memphis, then ECU, then UCF while acknowledging from the BE Football presidents point of view the preference for the latter three would more likely be UCF, then Memphis, then ECU.

Cheers,
Neil

Catching lightning in a bottle is one thing. It's a mistake to assume it would happen again. UC, USF and Louisville were pretty successful in CUSA before coming to the Big East. Has ECU won a conference title yet?

L-yes Wrote:I didn't forget WVU as much as I didn't feel the need to include them, Rutgers or UConn in the discussion. Being a flagship state university speaks for itself. The rest of us in the league fit the mold I was describing. Either you're a flagship or major metropolitan university, i.e. Miami, Louisville, PITT, UC, etc. ECU is like Western Kentucky University to me not just in name. WKU is probably the thrid rung as far as profile goes in the state. They have a nice university and an admrible sports program. That said they are located in Bowling Green serving primarily Kentuckians, they are happy to be playing in the sun belt and having 'one shining moment' on occation. ECU is just not up to the standard of the Big East all-sport members.

Minges is a cracker box gym and their basketball program wouldn't be acceptable in the Missouri Valley or A10.

They are at best 4th on the totem pole in their home state behind Duke, UNC and NC State. Maybe even Wake Forest.

They won a liberty bowl about 20 years ago. I know they have a nice fan follwing for football but I can't imagine that is all the Big East would look for which is why I'm not surprised that ECU is ready to give up everything for a chance to play in the league.

They simply don't fit and they know it.

L-Yes,
I have to disagree with you my Red and Black brother about ECU. I see ECU as being cut from a different cloth then the ACC bunch they are forced to share their state with.
Unlike the ACC schools you named, along with Davidson and Gardner-Webb in North Carolina, ECU is a football first school and if there is anything our football league needs it's more football first schools.
As hard as we try, Louisville will always be a basketball first school, so will Cincinnati. We need more schools in the Big East that fans live and die football at.
You do know that Cameron Indoor at Duke only seats 9300 and Minges seats 8000. I wouldn't let 1300 seats keep them out of the Big East.
CJ

L-yes Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:

PirateMarv Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:I think we're missing an important point here that being population centers in major markets. The Big East butters its bread with metropolitan universities. In our case we are by far the largest city in our state and in the city we (UofL) command the market. Beyond population there is concentrated wealth in these urban centers. I would suspect that Louisville fans on average out earn their UK counterparts one reason being the vast majority of Kentucky fans have never set foot on a college campus.

We are a relatively poor state and state resources are dumped into UK. The fact that UofL has such a powerful sports program with little in terms of state financial support speaks to the wealth in the community, its corporate citizens and alumni base. These are people you want to advertise to. These are people who will travel all over the damn place to watch basketball and football games, these are people with disposable income.

These dynamics make our conference work to different extents across the all-sport membership. I think Memphis fits this mold. I think ECU and Greenville does not.

Every single word of your post may carry a bit of truth, however the success that Virginia Tech had in the BE is a compelling counter argument. IMO that program and their small mid-Atlantic setting showed the BE in a very positive light. And while many BE fans may want to distance themselves from that type of institution, it is not necessarily all bad; because Virginia Tech's departure actually helped Louisville to get into the BE. Finally, I see that some Cardinal fans (not all) intend to take the same position with ECU in the BE that they held in CUSA.

You forget WVU. Kentucky has so much more money to pump into UK than WVU gets from the State of West Virginia.

And I dare you to find a smaller population base.

I didn't forget WVU as much as I didn't feel the need to include them, Rutgers or UConn in the discussion. Being a flagship state university speaks for itself. The rest of us in the league fit the mold I was describing. Either you're a flagship or major metropolitan university, i.e. Miami, Louisville, PITT, UC, etc. ECU is like Western Kentucky University to me not just in name. WKU is probably the thrid rung as far as profile goes in the state. They have a nice university and an admrible sports program. That said they are located in Bowling Green serving primarily Kentuckians, they are happy to be playing in the sun belt and having 'one shining moment' on occation. ECU is just not up to the standard of the Big East all-sport members.

Minges is a cracker box gym and their basketball program wouldn't be acceptable in the Missouri Valley or A10.

They are at best 4th on the totem pole in their home state behind Duke, UNC and NC State. Maybe even Wake Forest.

They won a liberty bowl about 20 years ago. I know they have a nice fan follwing for football but I can't imagine that is all the Big East would look for which is why I'm not surprised that ECU is ready to give up everything for a chance to play in the league.

They simply don't fit and they know it.

In your efforts to thumb your nose at ECU, your statements fail to account for the population growth of North Carolina. The public university system in a state like California, shows you how incredibly flawed your logic is. There are a plethora of universities that serve the population of California; and while Berkley is the flagship, many other universities in the system like UCLA, UC Davis, UC San Diego are also highly thought of. The same thing is currently occuring in States like Texas and Florida, which has UF, FSU, USF and UCF.

If I am not mistaken, North Carolina is one of fastest growing states in the union; Greenville is the fastest growing city in North Carolina, and ECU is the fastet growing university in the UNC system. In a couple of years ECU will pass UNC to become the second largest university in the State, behind only N.C. State University. With increased students comes increased funding, which is at the center of academic advancement. So it is only a matter of time, before ECU is thought of like the other universities.

Finally, WKU prospects are limited, because as it has been noted on this board, Kentucky is a poor state that reserves most of its resources for UK. Schools like Louisville and WKU are necessarily ignored due to that decision. North Carolina on the other hand has a number of public universities that get treatment similar too or greater than UK. In fact when I was in schools 23 years ago, North Carolina had one of the best and most forward thinking public university systems in the Country; and I can't help but think that it has gotten better as the population has grown.

Finally, I think that Minges seats about 9,000 people, which I think is about the same as Cameron Indoor Arena. Duke does not have a problem filling up their "cracker box" so I don't imagine that ECU would have any problems either, if they put winnning teams on the court.

CardinalJim Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:I didn't forget WVU as much as I didn't feel the need to include them, Rutgers or UConn in the discussion. Being a flagship state university speaks for itself. The rest of us in the league fit the mold I was describing. Either you're a flagship or major metropolitan university, i.e. Miami, Louisville, PITT, UC, etc. ECU is like Western Kentucky University to me not just in name. WKU is probably the thrid rung as far as profile goes in the state. They have a nice university and an admrible sports program. That said they are located in Bowling Green serving primarily Kentuckians, they are happy to be playing in the sun belt and having 'one shining moment' on occation. ECU is just not up to the standard of the Big East all-sport members.

Minges is a cracker box gym and their basketball program wouldn't be acceptable in the Missouri Valley or A10.

They are at best 4th on the totem pole in their home state behind Duke, UNC and NC State. Maybe even Wake Forest.

They won a liberty bowl about 20 years ago. I know they have a nice fan follwing for football but I can't imagine that is all the Big East would look for which is why I'm not surprised that ECU is ready to give up everything for a chance to play in the league.

They simply don't fit and they know it.

L-Yes,
I have to disagree with you my Red and Black brother about ECU. I see ECU as being cut from a different cloth then the ACC bunch they are forced to share their state with.
Unlike the ACC schools you named, along with Davidson and Gardner-Webb in North Carolina, ECU is a football first school and if there is anything our football league needs it's more football first schools.
As hard as we try, Louisville will always be a basketball first school, so will Cincinnati. We need more schools in the Big East that fans live and die football at.
You do know that Cameron Indoor at Duke only seats 9300 and Minges seats 8000. I wouldn't let 1300 seats keep them out of the Big East.
CJ

We'll have to agree to disagree. When we can send 30-40k to a bowl game I refuse to call us a 'basketball first school'. We are a well rounded program with well rounded fans.

Duke is a brand name that has been the most high profile program in college basketball for the last 15 years. They sell out every home game in their gym and have a national following. ECU is piss poor and has never shown a commitment to basketball even when given the chance in CUSA.

I'd much rather have UCF or Memphis and I think you'll see it play out in time that the league feels the same way. Again ECU is offering to give up everything to gain entry to the Big East for a reason. If they were all you think they are they wouldn't be offering themselves as a sacrificial lamb.

L-yes Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:I didn't forget WVU as much as I didn't feel the need to include them, Rutgers or UConn in the discussion. Being a flagship state university speaks for itself. The rest of us in the league fit the mold I was describing. Either you're a flagship or major metropolitan university, i.e. Miami, Louisville, PITT, UC, etc. ECU is like Western Kentucky University to me not just in name. WKU is probably the thrid rung as far as profile goes in the state. They have a nice university and an admrible sports program. That said they are located in Bowling Green serving primarily Kentuckians, they are happy to be playing in the sun belt and having 'one shining moment' on occation. ECU is just not up to the standard of the Big East all-sport members.

Minges is a cracker box gym and their basketball program wouldn't be acceptable in the Missouri Valley or A10.

They are at best 4th on the totem pole in their home state behind Duke, UNC and NC State. Maybe even Wake Forest.

They won a liberty bowl about 20 years ago. I know they have a nice fan follwing for football but I can't imagine that is all the Big East would look for which is why I'm not surprised that ECU is ready to give up everything for a chance to play in the league.

They simply don't fit and they know it.

L-Yes,
I have to disagree with you my Red and Black brother about ECU. I see ECU as being cut from a different cloth then the ACC bunch they are forced to share their state with.
Unlike the ACC schools you named, along with Davidson and Gardner-Webb in North Carolina, ECU is a football first school and if there is anything our football league needs it's more football first schools.
As hard as we try, Louisville will always be a basketball first school, so will Cincinnati. We need more schools in the Big East that fans live and die football at.
You do know that Cameron Indoor at Duke only seats 9300 and Minges seats 8000. I wouldn't let 1300 seats keep them out of the Big East.
CJ

We'll have to agree to disagree. When we can send 30-40k to a bowl game I refuse to call us a 'basketball first school'. We are a well rounded program with well rounded fans.

Duke is a brand name that has been the most high profile program in college basketball for the last 15 years. They sell out every home game in their gym and have a national following. ECU is piss poor and has never shown a commitment to basketball even when given the chance in CUSA.

I'd much rather have UCF or Memphis and I think you'll see it play out in time that the league feels the same way. Again ECU is offering to give up everything to gain entry to the Big East for a reason. If they were all you think they are they wouldn't be offering themselves as a sacrificial lamb.

I actually agree with you about ECU not caring about their basketball program. There is no reason why ECU should not have a decent program, especially since we know what teams like UNC-Charlotte; UNC-Wilmington; N.C. State and Davidson have done. ECU has the resources and the recruiting grounds to be better, but for some reason they have not made the commitment. I don't know if you could call it an oddity, but when you look at ECU's overall historical basketball record; you will see that at some point ECU had some decent teams; but obviously not many lately.