So, you want all these things, but you're against anything that will do something about it. Am I correct?

RebelKev Wrote:

Fo Shizzle Wrote:Terrorism....The use of violence and intimidation to acheive and end...Fear and subjugation produced by this....A system of government that uses terror to rule....Damn...Our government is getting pretty close to this defination.

Government

There is right and wrong, you know.

Yes and it all begins and ends with the use of force.

perunapower Wrote:I'm not pressing our lifestyle on theirs. I'm pressing for human rights.

I'm going to call foul there.

There's no difference between pressing our lifestyle on them and pressing our concept of human rights on them, except in the eye of the beholder. What looks to you like pressing for human rights looks to them like pressing our lifestyle on theirs. And they don't like it. And some of them are willing to go to great extremes to show us how much they don't like it.

I'm assuming you have not spent much time over there, because you seem intelligent enough that I think you'd pick up on it if you were there.

If you want to give them the freedom to decide, you have to allow them to do what they decide to do. And I'm pretty sure you won't like some of the decisions.

RebelKev Wrote:So, you want all these things, but you're against anything that will do something about it. Am I correct?

What solutions do you have, o omnipotent one?

Foreign relations and diplomacy can do wonders when allowed to work properly. If your solution is to go on a global crusade smiting all that isn't an exact replica of America like a mischievous third-grader armed with a BB gun in Pottery Barn, then no, I don't even come close to supporting your "solution".

Meeting with world leaders, making strong stands against injustices, and placing economic sanctions on countries that thrive on civil injustice and human rights violations are my preferred methods of combating this problem.

perunapower Wrote:What solutions do you have, o omnipotent one?

Foreign relations and diplomacy can do wonders when allowed to work properly. If your solution is to go on a global crusade smiting all that isn't an exact replica of America like a mischievous third-grader armed with a BB gun in Pottery Barn, then no, I don't even come close to supporting your "solution".

Meeting with world leaders, making strong stands against injustices, and placing economic sanctions on countries that thrive on civil injustice and human rights violations are my preferred methods of combating this problem.

Billy Clinnon had 8 years to perform some of those miracles you suggest. How'd that work out? You cannot simply reason with some people. That's the one of the ONLY things hawks, such as I, want you libs to realize. How did Albright dancing with the Gargoyle work out? Bush has transformed two countries in his 8. ....I've been to both, just in case you want to bring up leftist talking points from news sources with their own agenda. Well, A-stan recently. Iraq a few times.

perunapower Wrote:Foreign relations and diplomacy can do wonders when allowed to work properly.

Give a few examples.

Diplomacy works when it's backed up by a credible threat to do serious harm to any party that doesn't negotiate in good faith. Speak softly, but carry a big stick.

RebelKev Wrote:Billy Clinnon had 8 years to perform some of those miracles you suggest. How'd that work out? You cannot simply reason with some people. That's the one of the ONLY things hawks, such as I, want you libs to realize. How did Albright dancing with the Gargoyle work out? Bush has transformed two countries in his 8. ....I've been to both, just in case you want to bring up leftist talking points from news sources with their own agenda. Well, A-stan recently. Iraq a few times.

But you can reason with some, which is my point and should be our course of action. Bush transformed those countries because of the Taliban in the case of Afghanistan and because of faulty intelligence in the case of Iraq. Neither of which were for any of the points I mentioned before.

I know there are many great things going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's shot to hell when some moron shoots holes in an expletive-riddled Qu'ran.

Democracy cannot be forced into a country with a gun. It is a philosophy that takes time to be embraced and must be accepted by the people.

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:

perunapower Wrote:Foreign relations and diplomacy can do wonders when allowed to work properly.

Give a few examples.

Diplomacy works when it's backed up by a credible threat to do serious harm to any party that doesn't negotiate in good faith. Speak softly, but carry a big stick.

North Korea Nuclear Threat
Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty
Numerous meetings during the Cold War

You do have to have leverage; that's necessary in any negotiation. That should come in the form of economic sanctions and political pressure. It should not be "do what we say or we'll send the nukes".

perunapower Wrote:North Korea Nuclear Threat

You think this has ended? Madelaine Albright thought so as well. ....in the 90's. As for Egypt, Atta came from Egypt, shouldn't you be bashing them since you said Iraq shouldn't have been attacked since no hi-jacker was an Iraqi? After all, you said not one of the hi-jackers came from Iraq, I'm assuming you think Egypt is one of the culprits.

RebelKev Wrote:

perunapower Wrote:North Korea Nuclear Threat

You think this has ended? Madelaine Albright thought so as well. ....in the 90's. As for Egypt, Atta came from Egypt, shouldn't you be bashing them since you said Iraq shouldn't have been attacked since no hi-jacker was an Iraqi? After all, you said not one of the hi-jackers came from Iraq, I'm assuming you think Egypt is one of the culprits.

It's not over, but it made significant strides when North Korea dismantled its reactors recently.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make with the rest of that. I think you're trying to put words in my mouth. That seems like one of your favorite things to do, right? Generalize and hope something sticks.