Cowboy Junky Wrote:I just posted the question on TCU's board. There aren't any responses yet, so you'll get to watch them come in as I do.

There might be a very small minority of TCU fans, boosters, and administrators that want to return to CUSA, but the overwhelming majority like the MWC.

You'll see....

http://www.killerfrogs.com/msgboard/inde...opic=79070

Do you really expect TCU fans to admit publicly that they want to return to CUSA?

TCU? Why are we still talking about the Frogs?

Even if TCU knows they made a mistake in going to a conference that's often mistaken by the WAC, they won't admit it. They're not coming back and let them be BYU and Utah's biatch for eternity. Even if C-USA losses two schools to the Big East, we can stay at 10 which is the perfect number for a conference but I still believe the Big East will get one C-USA East school and that'll be UCF. Until that happens, then we can worry about what school brings the most to the table for C-USA membership. C-USA lost its best football program (Louisville) and basketball program (Cincinnati), it'll be almost impossible to replace those two but it's doable, this conference is in its 3rd year together.

As for Cowboy Junky and Loboblast, you two look pathetic being here wishing the "death" of C-USA. This conference has shown it can recover, and it's not just my opinion, it's a fact. If the MWC is ready to take UTEP or Houston or Boise and Fresno from the WAC, why are they not doing it right now? Who's stopping you? Why wait until the Big East raids C-USA? You know why? Because it's not happening. There's a big difference between what the decision makers (Presidents, AD's, boosters) and what posters on message boards want. Instead of looking to other conference to improve your product, why don't you start in your own conference? What have Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State, UNLV, SDSU and Air Force done in football since realignment? Any AP and BCS rankings, major bowl invitations/victories, etc., etc? That's 2/3 of MWC schools.

Folks, if a team leaves a conference, the NCAA tourney credits earned by that team stay with the conference. Only if a league agrees contractually with the departing school will that school receive any NCAA tourney credit money they earned while in that conference. CUSA would have no reason hypothetically to do anything other than keep all Memphis NCAA tourney credit money, and it lasts 6 years.

Only for academic purposes will I talk about TCU joining CUSA. Assuming your numbers are correct, which I seriously doubt, but don't go to the trouble of "proving" them... you leave out the more important part of the equation, and that is expenses. Travel in the MWC is much higher than in CUSA West. TCU would SERIOUSLY cut their expenses by joining CUSA West. Southwest would fly them to virtually every game on a regularly scheduled flight. There would be 5 teams in Texas and 7 within a 90 minute flight.

BUT...

RIce wouldn't vote for TCU to join the conference... and i don't think many if any of CUSA gives a rats a$$ about TCU as we sit.

Having said that... and THIS is the most important comment...

Any school, including TCU leaving their current conference is going to be the result of an action by ANOTHER conference... not an affirmative action by that school. In other words, IF the BE decides to expand, they will seek out a school in their general footprint... and CUSA EAST is the best non-bcs conference in their footprint. The BCS schools in the Wac and MWC conferences are viewed as being stable... and while I think the BE with 16 basketball schools and an auto BCS bid split only 9 ways... I think they're fine as well.... SOME people think there is an opportunity.

So... we have a BCS conference that some view as unstable... and a few posters and journalists come on here pimping their school as the "best" candidate. So some others say... so IF that happens, what do we do??

Of all the MWC or WAC schools, TCU is the only one I can think of with ANY geographical overlap with CUSA... so it makes geographical sense to mention them... plus there's some history... and not all of it good... that's all. None of the other WAC or MWC conference schools make geographic sense. There are some sun-belt and other "lesser" conferences that make sense geographically... and some of their teams would fit quite well (nemerically and performance-wise) in the ower half of CUSA, the MWC or the WAC. I mean, if we entertain TCUs delusions of Grandeur and the big12 goes to 13, or more likely, assume BYU goes to the Pac10... WHOM would the MWC go after?? My guess, geographically reasonable UTEP or Tulsa and some schools similar in stature to the belt and other conference teams like we discuss. So while they like to make fun of our purely hypothetical discussions... the reality is that if we put the shoe on the other foot, they'd be in the same position. They can make arguments that NMSU or whatever is a better school than say Troy or North Texas, but who cares... It's like saying my pile of crap is better than yours... even if it is... its STILL just a pile of crap. (not calling those schools crap... just making a point)

It doesn't matter what TCU fans think the right move is today... OR what they think the right move will be IF Memphis or ECU or whomever leaves CUSA... I can guarantee you that it won't be that simple. There will be realignment beyond those two schools.

Cowboy Junky Wrote:

E-zone Wrote:

CalallenStang Wrote:

Cowboy Junky Wrote:West
SMU
Rice
Tulsa
Houston
Tulane
North Texas

Sorry, thanks for playing. SMU will NOT be in a league with Denton Community College. Ever.

So what is wrong with that school North of Dallas?

I also don't see an invite going to North Texas, just for the fact they are a Texas School and 4 seems like more than enough if not to many (5 would be a little over board). That's the same way I feel about trying to add TCU...

Plus the simple fact is I don't see TCU wanting to go back to C-USA, if you look at football, basketball (the 2 main money sports), and the TV contract...

Currently C-USA has a large lead in NCAA credits, this year it was C-USA 43 credits vs the MWC 21 credits. This passed season Memphis earned C-USA 4 more (since that's most a team can earn in a season), UNLV and BYU earned the MWC 3, so next year the totals will be C-USA 43 and MWC 20. But in order to keep pace C-USA will have to earn 9 in the 2008-09 season, 11 in the 2009-10 season, and 10 in the 2010-11 season. I don't see that happening, since C-USA was re-alined in 2005, the credits have been, 2005-06 5, 2006-07 4, and 2007-08 4. Almost all of them earned by Memphis, so if Memphis left to the Big East, your basketball credits would take another big hit...

NCAA Credits going into the 2007-08 season (starting at 2001-02 - 2006-07 season)
C-USA; 4, 9, 11, 10, 5, and 4 = 43 credits
MWC; 4, 4, 3, 4, 2, and 4 = 21 credits

Anyway looking at 2007-08 revenue from (simple terms and numbers) TV, Bowls and Basketball credits for the 2 conferences;

C-USA
TV- $11,500,000
Bowls- $6,259,400 (Bowls $3,773,000 + BC$ split $2,486,400)
Credits- $8,302,129
Total- $26,061,529 / 12 = $2,171,794 per school average

MWC
TV- $12,000,000
Bowls- $7,129,600 (Bowls $3,600,000 + BC$ split $3,529,600)
Credits- $4,054,528
Total- $23,184,128 / 9 = $2,576,014 per school average

So even with the huge credit advantage and more Bowl games TCU still stands to make more in the MWC than in C-USA.

Those are all great points. Now what happens if CUSA loses Memphis. Basketball credits will be cut 1/2 to 2/3. The t.v. contract will lose a third to a half of it's value. In addition, the Liberty bowl is gone, so the revenue from that will leave as well.

Most of those financial losses are going to start this year with the basketball credits, regardless of what Memphis does. When Memphis leaves CUSA is going to lose a lot of money.

That is a big IF Junkie, there is no concluding evidence that Memphis will be snatched away by the "New Big East Conference", only some report from a tv station with "inside information" these type of rumblings have been going on since the new CUSA formed nothing new there. UCF, ECU, Southern Miss, Memphis have all been rumored to be the "chosen one" to become part of the Big East.

CUSA probably wouldn't approach TCU with an offer. If a move happened it would more than likely have to be TCU that initiated the contact and the desire to join.

If we just lose Memphis I'd be for just staying at 11 for awhile and see what develops. 11 seems to be a good number for the B10.

Hambone10 Wrote:Only for academic purposes will I talk about TCU joining CUSA. Assuming your numbers are correct, which I seriously doubt, but don't go to the trouble of "proving" them... you leave out the more important part of the equation, and that is expenses. Travel in the MWC is much higher than in CUSA West. TCU would SERIOUSLY cut their expenses by joining CUSA West. Southwest would fly them to virtually every game on a regularly scheduled flight. There would be 5 teams in Texas and 7 within a 90 minute flight.

I had the same thought about travel expenses. When Rice was looking at C-USA over the WAC, I thought the travel savings was at least $250k. Although travel included Hawaii, it was also in the time of $1.50 gasoline. Travel costs must be really high now for programs like TCU, Louisiana Tech, UTEP, and Marshall.

ESE84 Wrote:

Hambone10 Wrote:Only for academic purposes will I talk about TCU joining CUSA. Assuming your numbers are correct, which I seriously doubt, but don't go to the trouble of "proving" them... you leave out the more important part of the equation, and that is expenses. Travel in the MWC is much higher than in CUSA West. TCU would SERIOUSLY cut their expenses by joining CUSA West. Southwest would fly them to virtually every game on a regularly scheduled flight. There would be 5 teams in Texas and 7 within a 90 minute flight.

I had the same thought about travel expenses. When Rice was looking at C-USA over the WAC, I thought the travel savings was at least $250k. Although travel included Hawaii, it was also in the time of $1.50 gasoline. Travel costs must be really high now for programs like TCU, Louisiana Tech, UTEP, and Marshall.

But it would be the same expenses if UTEP was in the WAC or the MWC. The only schools close to UTEP are NMSU and UNM and the Miners play them every year. Flying to Boise, Honolulu, San Diego, San Jose, Fresno, Salt Lake and Denver it's not much of a difference than flying to Dallas, Houston, Tulsa, New Orleans, Birmingham, Memphis, Orlando and Raleigh. Being in C-USA, the WAC and MWC wouldn't save much $$$$ on travel expenses to UTEP.

I agree with you on TCU, Louisiana Tech and Marshall. Basically, those three have regional nonBCS conferences close to them.....unlike UTEP.

Soaring Eagle Wrote:If we just lose Memphis I'd be for just staying at 11 for awhile and see what develops. 11 seems to be a good number for the B10.

We'd need a waiver from the NCAA to continue to host a CCG. 11's a bad number...9 is ideal and 10 works ok (but an unbalanced conference schedule on home vs away games)...11 is pretty much useless. I'm sure the NCAA would grant a waiver for a year or two, but at some point they're going to say 'add the 12th team or drop the CCG.'

Coming from a Memphis fan - let me first of all say - Memphis fans love CUSA. Yes, granted, like ANY non BCS school, we would love to be a part of a BCS conference like Big East because of the money (and for some rivalries like UL, Cincy) but mostly money. To say, CUSA will not be successful because Memphis leaves is also not a correct argument - it will take the conference some times but it will recover - just like the current conference is doing after loosing Louisville, Cincy, Marquette. MWC is in the same boat, if not worse, because if they loose BYU, that conference will be worse off then C-USA. Since we know neither BYU is going anywhere, nor is Memphis - this whole discussion is useless. The CUSA already has its 12 members, do not need another TCU or otherwise. Additionally, speaking of basketball, yes the league has received only 1 bid this year, but it received multiple bids the year before and its numbers in the RPI continues to go up. I expect CUSA to pass MWC and A-10 next year in mens basketball in RPI and number of bids.

Quote:So what is wrong with that school North of Dallas?

Let's see...UNT and UAB are similar schools: they both are large publics located in a major metropolitan area. Neither school has great football, a good football following, or decent football facilities. However, UAB adds their solid basketball program to this conference, as well as the Birmingham media market. UNT would add nothing.

CitrusUCF Wrote:

Soaring Eagle Wrote:If we just lose Memphis I'd be for just staying at 11 for awhile and see what develops. 11 seems to be a good number for the B10.

We'd need a waiver from the NCAA to continue to host a CCG. 11's a bad number...9 is ideal and 10 works ok (but an unbalanced conference schedule on home vs away games)...11 is pretty much useless. I'm sure the NCAA would grant a waiver for a year or two, but at some point they're going to say 'add the 12th team or drop the CCG.'

I doubt the waver would be granted, years back the Big 10 asked for that waver and was rejected, the NCAA has been very firm with 12...

E-zone Wrote:

CitrusUCF Wrote:

Soaring Eagle Wrote:If we just lose Memphis I'd be for just staying at 11 for awhile and see what develops. 11 seems to be a good number for the B10.

We'd need a waiver from the NCAA to continue to host a CCG. 11's a bad number...9 is ideal and 10 works ok (but an unbalanced conference schedule on home vs away games)...11 is pretty much useless. I'm sure the NCAA would grant a waiver for a year or two, but at some point they're going to say 'add the 12th team or drop the CCG.'

I doubt the waver would be granted, years back the Big 10 asked for that waver and was rejected, the NCAA has been very firm with 12...

Even the ACC asked the NCAA for a waiver before Boston College was added. The NCAA rejected their petition.

Hambone10 Wrote:Only for academic purposes will I talk about TCU joining CUSA. Assuming your numbers are correct, which I seriously doubt, but don't go to the trouble of "proving" them... you leave out the more important part of the equation, and that is expenses. Travel in the MWC is much higher than in CUSA West. TCU would SERIOUSLY cut their expenses by joining CUSA West. Southwest would fly them to virtually every game on a regularly scheduled flight. There would be 5 teams in Texas and 7 within a 90 minute flight.

C-USA;
Liberty Bowl- $1.5 million
GMAC Bowl- $750,000
Texas Bowl- $500,000
Hawaii Bowl- $398,000
New Orleans Bowl- $325,000
Papajohns.com Bowl- $300,000
Grand Total- $3,773,000

MWC;
Las Vegas Bowl- $1 million
Poinsettia Bowl- $750,000
Armed Forces Bowl- $600,000
New Mexico Bowl- $750,000
Texas Bowl- $500,000
Grand Total- $3,600,000

C-USA was 3rd in the non-Auto rankings
BCS guaranteed revenue- $921,600 + $921,600 = $1,843,200
BCS revenue (from Hawaii's Sugar Bowl)- $643,200
Total- $2,486,400
So combine the Bowl money and BC$ money = $6,259,400

MWC was 1st in the non-Auto rankings
BCS guaranteed revenue- $921,600 + $1,536,000 = $2,457,600
BCS revenue (from Hawaii's Sugar Bowl)- $1,072,000
Total- $3,529,600
So combine the Bowl money and BC$ money = $7,129,600

Most current Bowl payout I have found is;
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/f...outs_x.htm

Tells how the BC$ monies are split amount the 5 non-Auto conferences (under "BCS guaranteed revenue" and "BCS revenue";
http://www.idahostatesman.com/boisestate...96335.html


Here is a link for NCAA credits per conference;
http://www1.ncaa.org/finance/bkb_dist.html


According to quite a few TCU fans I have read quite a few times that TCU travel package is was cheaper in the MWC than C-USA.

UTEPDallas Wrote:

E-zone Wrote:

CitrusUCF Wrote:

Soaring Eagle Wrote:If we just lose Memphis I'd be for just staying at 11 for awhile and see what develops. 11 seems to be a good number for the B10.

We'd need a waiver from the NCAA to continue to host a CCG. 11's a bad number...9 is ideal and 10 works ok (but an unbalanced conference schedule on home vs away games)...11 is pretty much useless. I'm sure the NCAA would grant a waiver for a year or two, but at some point they're going to say 'add the 12th team or drop the CCG.'

I doubt the waver would be granted, years back the Big 10 asked for that waver and was rejected, the NCAA has been very firm with 12...

Even the ACC asked the NCAA for a waiver before Boston College was added. The NCAA rejected their petition.

The situation would be somewhat different -- in that case, the conferences involved had never had 12 teams. If CUSA got raided, I believe the NCAA would give us time to find that 12th team.

E-zone Wrote:

Hambone10 Wrote:Only for academic purposes will I talk about TCU joining CUSA. Assuming your numbers are correct, which I seriously doubt, but don't go to the trouble of "proving" them... you leave out the more important part of the equation, and that is expenses. Travel in the MWC is much higher than in CUSA West. TCU would SERIOUSLY cut their expenses by joining CUSA West. Southwest would fly them to virtually every game on a regularly scheduled flight. There would be 5 teams in Texas and 7 within a 90 minute flight.

C-USA;
Liberty Bowl- $1.5 million
GMAC Bowl- $750,000
Texas Bowl- $500,000
Hawaii Bowl- $398,000
New Orleans Bowl- $325,000
Papajohns.com Bowl- $300,000
Grand Total- $3,773,000

MWC;
Las Vegas Bowl- $1 million
Poinsettia Bowl- $750,000
Armed Forces Bowl- $600,000
New Mexico Bowl- $750,000
Texas Bowl- $500,000
Grand Total- $3,600,000

C-USA was 3rd in the non-Auto rankings
BCS guaranteed revenue- $921,600 + $921,600 = $1,843,200
BCS revenue (from Hawaii's Sugar Bowl)- $643,200
Total- $2,486,400
So combine the Bowl money and BC$ money = $6,259,400

MWC was 1st in the non-Auto rankings
BCS guaranteed revenue- $921,600 + $1,536,000 = $2,457,600
BCS revenue (from Hawaii's Sugar Bowl)- $1,072,000
Total- $3,529,600
So combine the Bowl money and BC$ money = $7,129,600

Most current Bowl payout I have found is;
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/f...outs_x.htm

Tells how the BC$ monies are split amount the 5 non-Auto conferences (under "BCS guaranteed revenue" and "BCS revenue";
http://www.idahostatesman.com/boisestate...96335.html


Here is a link for NCAA credits per conference;
http://www1.ncaa.org/finance/bkb_dist.html


According to quite a few TCU fans I have read quite a few times that TCU travel package is was cheaper in the MWC than C-USA.

Hambone has a point. With gas hitting $4 a gallon, how in the world travel expenses are cheaper in the MWC than C-USA? Don't you think flying or taking a bus to Dallas, Tulsa, New Orleans and Houston would be much cheaper than going to Albuquerque, Colorado Springs, Fort Collins and Laramie? Maybe back in the days of .99 cents a gallon you'd had a good argument but now?

The reason I'm using those 8 cities is because they're the closest to TCU in C-USA and MWC.

P.S. I'm not saying TCU should be in C-USA. Honestly, they don't do much for me and the last thing this conference needs is another private school in a large market where they're an afterthought with horrible basketball and so so fan support.

UTEPDallas Wrote:

E-zone Wrote:

Hambone10 Wrote:Only for academic purposes will I talk about TCU joining CUSA. Assuming your numbers are correct, which I seriously doubt, but don't go to the trouble of "proving" them... you leave out the more important part of the equation, and that is expenses. Travel in the MWC is much higher than in CUSA West. TCU would SERIOUSLY cut their expenses by joining CUSA West. Southwest would fly them to virtually every game on a regularly scheduled flight. There would be 5 teams in Texas and 7 within a 90 minute flight.

C-USA;
Liberty Bowl- $1.5 million
GMAC Bowl- $750,000
Texas Bowl- $500,000
Hawaii Bowl- $398,000
New Orleans Bowl- $325,000
Papajohns.com Bowl- $300,000
Grand Total- $3,773,000

MWC;
Las Vegas Bowl- $1 million
Poinsettia Bowl- $750,000
Armed Forces Bowl- $600,000
New Mexico Bowl- $750,000
Texas Bowl- $500,000
Grand Total- $3,600,000

C-USA was 3rd in the non-Auto rankings
BCS guaranteed revenue- $921,600 + $921,600 = $1,843,200
BCS revenue (from Hawaii's Sugar Bowl)- $643,200
Total- $2,486,400
So combine the Bowl money and BC$ money = $6,259,400

MWC was 1st in the non-Auto rankings
BCS guaranteed revenue- $921,600 + $1,536,000 = $2,457,600
BCS revenue (from Hawaii's Sugar Bowl)- $1,072,000
Total- $3,529,600
So combine the Bowl money and BC$ money = $7,129,600

Most current Bowl payout I have found is;
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/f...outs_x.htm

Tells how the BC$ monies are split amount the 5 non-Auto conferences (under "BCS guaranteed revenue" and "BCS revenue";
http://www.idahostatesman.com/boisestate...96335.html


Here is a link for NCAA credits per conference;
http://www1.ncaa.org/finance/bkb_dist.html


According to quite a few TCU fans I have read quite a few times that TCU travel package is was cheaper in the MWC than C-USA.

Hambone has a point. With gas hitting $4 a gallon, how in the world travel expenses are cheaper in the MWC than C-USA? Don't you think flying or taking a bus to Dallas, Tulsa, New Orleans and Houston would be much cheaper than going to Albuquerque, Colorado Springs, Fort Collins and Laramie? Maybe back in the days of .99 cents a gallon you'd had a good argument but now?

The reason I'm using those 8 cities is because they're the closest to TCU in C-USA and MWC.

P.S. I'm not saying TCU should be in C-USA. Honestly, they don't do much for me and the last thing this conference needs is another private school in a large market where they're an afterthought with horrible basketball and so so fan support.

It my understand they asked the Airlines figured out each package (C-USA and MWC) and the MWC package was cheaper by quite a bit, according to what I have read from different TCU fans. According to the studies TCU did they would make around $2 million a year more in the MWC than in C-USA. I used 3 very simple numbers (TV, Bowl, and NCAA credits) and those show a $400,000+ advantage to the MWC, so I don't have any problem believing the stated numbers of TCU's study...

link to the travel costs?

You might be able to convince me that splitting the MWC pie 9 ways might yield more revenue than splitting the CUSA pie 12 ways. But there is NO WAY ON EARTH you will ever convince me that going to Houston, Tulsa, New Orleans, Dallas, El Paso and then a trip or two East to Memphis, Greenville and Orlando is more expensive than Laramie, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas etc. I have flown all over this great nation and it is never cheap heading west, especially to obscure spots like Laramie.

With the divisional alignment of CUSA west, the travel across all sports would be far less than anything the neoWAC could conjure up.

Maybe you should put me in touch with your travel agent. I need whatever pixie dust they are using.

They'd grant the waiver- just to shut us up.