I believe in the BE it is the FB schools that are viewed as somewhat non full-members. I think the BB schools are thinking we had a nice conference and the FB schools came and messed it up with FB. That's part of the reason the BB schools are largly expected to keep the Big East name. The BE can't kick any BB-only member out unless it's ND. Kick out ND add Memphis but they the BB-only schools cry about FB/BB balance.

Keeping this balance between FB and BB is just plain foolish. The sooner a split the less complicated the destiny of the Fb schools becomes. The FB schools need to advocate for a split to create a fully united all sports conference. There's just no other way this works anymore. It is a matter of survival. The FB schools will tire of dealing with the BB schools.

The Big East FB Conference is a completely separate entity from the Big East Conference. That is why when Temple was a member of the Big East FB Conference they were not a member of the BE Conference. Same thing with WVU and VT before they were granted admittance into the Big East Conference. All 16 schools are full members of the Big East Conference. The 8 FB members are full members of the BE FB Conference. I know it is a tad confusing, I hope this helps. Tranghese is the commissioner of the BE Conference. He does not control the BE FB Conference. He acts as a figurehead for them, but the real power lies with the presidents of the FB schools. They are separate legal entities that operate under one umbrella.

Shannon,
If I understand your correctly then...

In lawyer-eze the Big East Football Conference Schools could be talking to Memphis, ECU and or UCF and the Big East Conference could deny it and no one would be lying. Damn that was confusing to type.

Jim

Shannon Panther Wrote:The Big East FB Conference is a completely separate entity from the Big East Conference. That is why when Temple was a member of the Big East FB Conference they were not a member of the BE Conference. Same thing with WVU and VT before they were granted admittance into the Big East Conference. All 16 schools are full members of the Big East Conference. The 8 FB members are full members of the BE FB Conference. I know it is a tad confusing, I hope this helps. Tranghese is the commissioner of the BE Conference. He does not control the BE FB Conference. He acts as a figurehead for them, but the real power lies with the presidents of the FB schools. They are separate legal entities that operate under one umbrella.

I know this is how they originally set it up. However, I don't believe that this is true any longer. I can't give you a source, only my rapidly diminishing memory. So, I could be wrong.

CardinalJim Wrote:Shannon,
If I understand your correctly then...

In lawyer-eze the Big East Football Conference Schools could be talking to Memphis, ECU and or UCF and the Big East Conference could deny it and no one would be lying. Damn that was confusing to type.

Jim

Exactly. They could be talking with the FB schools as we speak, but because the Big East Football Conference is a separate legal entity, they can deny that negotiations are going on with the Big East Conference, and likewise, officials at the Big East Conference are probably being truthful when they say, they aren't talking to Memphis about inclusion in the Big East Conference. I truly believe the FB schools are going to exercise they get of jail free card in 2010 and are beginning the process of lining up members 9 and or 10. Remember that C-USA has a 24 month notification requirement. To join in 2010 they would need to give notice bu July 31, 2008.

MU88 Wrote:

Shannon Panther Wrote:The Big East FB Conference is a completely separate entity from the Big East Conference. That is why when Temple was a member of the Big East FB Conference they were not a member of the BE Conference. Same thing with WVU and VT before they were granted admittance into the Big East Conference. All 16 schools are full members of the Big East Conference. The 8 FB members are full members of the BE FB Conference. I know it is a tad confusing, I hope this helps. Tranghese is the commissioner of the BE Conference. He does not control the BE FB Conference. He acts as a figurehead for them, but the real power lies with the presidents of the FB schools. They are separate legal entities that operate under one umbrella.

I know this is how they originally set it up. However, I don't believe that this is true any longer. I can't give you a source, only my rapidly diminishing memory. So, I could be wrong.

Somehow, the FB schools are recognized as a separate entity. The get out of jail free card applies to the FB schools, so it would follow that there is a separation. Also if there weren't a separation any BE BB school could move up in FB and be instantly included in the FB conference. The FB schools still have veto power over that, so you can see there is a legal separation there. They may not be pointing it out, but it is there all the same.

Shannon Panther Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:Shannon,
If I understand your correctly then...

In lawyer-eze the Big East Football Conference Schools could be talking to Memphis, ECU and or UCF and the Big East Conference could deny it and no one would be lying. Damn that was confusing to type.

Jim

Exactly. They could be talking with the FB schools as we speak, but because the Big East Football Conference is a separate legal entity, they can deny that negotiations are going on with the Big East Conference, and likewise, officials at the Big East Conference are probably being truthful when they say, they aren't talking to Memphis about inclusion in the Big East Conference. I truly believe the FB schools are going to exercise they get of jail free card in 2010 and are beginning the process of lining up members 9 and or 10. Remember that C-USA has a 24 month notification requirement. To join in 2010 they would need to give notice bu July 31, 2008.

I could be wrong, but I do believe that 2010 would be the last season that the fb schools would actually play together under the present BE banner, so that any 'get out of jail free card" would actually go into effect the following season. Also, I dont believe there is any time limit as to when a breakaway BE fb league would actually start play. For instance, the BE fb schools could actually excersize the "get out of jail free" card at the end of the 2010 season and put the basketball schools on notice that as of 2013 the BE fb schools will leave to form their own all sports league, just in time for the present tv contracts to expire and a new one to start.

Cuse,

You may be correct. I was using the 6 teams together for 5 years rule as my estimate. The Big East as it is currently configured was established Aug 1, 2005. Therefore the 5 period to establish an automatic bid to NCAA tournaments would be Aug 1, 2010. The FB schools will have played 5 seasons together then, '05, '06, '07, '08, & '09. It is easy for Pitt fans because Wanny took over at the same time and this is his 4th year coming up. I doubt seriously that the FB schools would announce that they are splitting and wait 3 years to do so. They would be lame ducks in the BE for 3 years.

The 24 month notice is a C-USA requirement. That is following the assumption that one or more additions to the new conference would come from there.

Gray Avenger Wrote:

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

Gray Avenger Wrote:What about the possibility of Seton Hall's contract not being renewed? If Temple could be booted, why not Seton Hall? Just curious.

Seton Hall is a full member of the Big East and a founding member of the Big East. Temple was a one-sport associate in football only. Really big difference.

I may need some diagrams or something on this one. Since Seton Hall doesn't play Division 1 football aren't they somewhat less of a "full member"? Isn't there a difference between "kicking out" and not renewing a contract?

Basketball is the sport that defines whether a school is a full member of a conference. Football is not the barometer of full membership in any conference in the judgement of the NCAA. Think about this. Nearly 350 schools are members of NCAA Division I. More than 100 of those schools do not play any type of football. Do you think they are not full Division I members?

Syracuse does not field a baseball team like 12 other Big East members. Are they not full members of the Big East because of this? Seton Hall, by the way, does have a baseball team. Cincinnati and West Virginia do not field women's softball teams like 12 other Big East members. Are they not full members of the Big East because of this? No one would ever say that.

Only in men's basketball and soccer - along with women's basketball, soccer, tennis, cross country, indoor track, and outdoor track - do you see every Big East school fielding a team. PC does not have women's volleyball. SJU and WVU do not have men's cross country, indoor track, or outdoor track. UC and USF have men's cross country and outdoor but not indoor.

Just 12 do women's swimming, 11 do men's swimming, 12 do men's golf, 7 do women's golf, 9 do men's tennis, 8 do women's rowing, 7 do women's field hockey, and 5 do women's lacrosse. Quit thinking football is the only sport that matters. It might be the most important sport but the Big East does not have a rule requiring participation whether outsiders like it or not.

By the way - UTEP, Tulsa, and SMU do not feature baseball while Tulane, Rice, and SMU do not sponsor softball in your very own CUSA - and I bet you consider all of them full members. Different universities make choices based on what is best for them and their status is not determined by the way fans from institutions located in other conferences view the world.