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Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
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KnightLight Offline
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Post: #1
Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
From article below:
http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/sports/related/C127/

Top 10 APR Football Scores:
Football BCS Top 10 APRs
1. Stanford 986
2 (tie). Duke 977
2 (tie). Rutgers 977
4. Boston College 972
5 (tie). Miami 969
5 (tie). Notre Dame 969
5 (tie). Northwestern 969
8. California 967
9. Georgia 965
10 (tie). Penn State 964
10 (tie). Wake Forest 964

Football BCS Bottom 10 APRs
1. Arizona 902
2. Washington State 916
3. South Florida 917
4. Kansas 919
5. Purdue 920
6 (tie). Oregon 921
6 (tie). South Carolina 921
8. Mississippi State 924
9 (tie). Michigan State 926
9 (tie). Oregon State 926


Basketball BCS Top 10 APRs
1. North Carolina 995*
2. Villanova 990
3. Illinois 989
4. Vanderbilt 985
5. Duke 984
6. Kansas 981
7. Oregon 975
8. Wake Forest 974
9. Northwestern 972
10. Notre Dame 971
*NOTE: How does UNC have such a high score when they lose players to the NBA? Thought any player who left before graduation is a "ding" on a program?

Basketball BCS Bottom 10 APRs
1. Southern Cal 863
2. Iowa State 869
3. Cincinnati 872
4. Colorado 873
5. Kansas State 880
6. Purdue 894
7 (tie). Indiana 899
7 (tie). South Carolina 899
9. Mississippi State 901
10. South Florida 904
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2008 10:43 AM by KnightLight.)
05-07-2008 10:21 AM
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mlb Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
That is interesting that UNC can be that high. Those people must not have kicked in to their APR yet.

UC's is going up, after they ran Huggins out UC's APR was killed due to transfers, guys not finishing up classes, etc. UC already paid their penalty and are penalty free going forward as long as the APR continues to rise.
05-07-2008 10:23 AM
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bearcatfan Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
No news is good news

I'm down in Chattanooga working on a story about a Reds' Class AA prospect. A little while ago, I picked up the USA Today outside my hotel room and saw the listing of schools that face penalties because of poor performance under the NCAA's Academic Progress Rates. There are 53 schools on the list of men's basketball programs that are struggling. Kansas State is on that list. So are UAB, Purdue and Tennessee. But UC is not. I understand that's not the kind of news that fans get excited about. It's not a 20-win season or an NCAA Tournament berth. But it shows that the substantial damage that had been done to the UC program has been repaired. Perhaps better days are in the not-too-distant future.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/sports/default.asp
05-07-2008 10:28 AM
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SoCalPanther Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
KnightLight Wrote:*NOTE: How does UNC have such a high score when they lose players to the NBA? Thought any player who left before graduation is a "ding" on a program?

IIRC, The players that declare early - as long as they are 'making the grade' - do not count against the score. On the other hand, if a player transfers out - even IF the player is 'making the grade' - still lowers the score! 03-banghead
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2008 10:41 AM by SoCalPanther.)
05-07-2008 10:40 AM
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KnightLight Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
Hoquista Wrote:
KnightLight Wrote:*NOTE: How does UNC have such a high score when they lose players to the NBA? Thought any player who left before graduation is a "ding" on a program?

IIRC, The players that declare early - as long as they are 'making the grade' - do not count against the score. On the other hand, if a player transfers out - even IF the player is 'making the grade' - still lowers the score! 03-banghead



Ah...thanks for the clarification. (Still doesn't make much sense).

PS. Technically, ANYONE can declare for the draft (without signing an agent)...wonder if a school can convince a kid who just wants to transfer to DECLARE for the draft first...help that current schools APR...then eventually re-enroll at another school?

Also...heard some football coaches give some 4th year scout players scholarships during their final year (if an extra one is available) as that will help a football programs APR score...as walk-on graduates DO NOT COUNT.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2008 10:47 AM by KnightLight.)
05-07-2008 10:45 AM
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frogman Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
Love USF but frankly they are on the bottom of both the FB and BB list.
This can be a huge negative when it come to recruiting against, say, Miami which is on the top of the FB list. (I can hardly believe that one.) Parents want their kid to play FB but they also want them to graduate.

The biggest challenge USF may be facing in recruiting against other Florida schools may not be the success of USF's FB team but the low graduation rate of players. I'm sure USF is already on the road to improving this. The higher profile of a BCS tag and the success they have had is actually a step in the right direction to solve any number of problems connected to sports. ON ward and upward. You'll look back on this in three years and laugh.
05-07-2008 10:56 AM
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mlb Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
I don't believe that is the case. If a player leaves early but is in good academic standing, whether transferring or going to the NBA, it is the same penalty. The school loses 1 point towards the APR (each player can get 2 points a year). I think at minimum they take the hit for a year, afterwards they may come off the score (I'm not clear on how that works). Either way, with only 12 or 13 scholarship players, it doesn't take too many missed points before you are below the 925 score.
05-07-2008 10:59 AM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
KnightLight Wrote:From article below:
http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/sports/related/C127/

Top 10 APR Football Scores:
Football BCS Top 10 APRs
1. Stanford 986
2 (tie). Duke 977
2 (tie). Rutgers 977
4. Boston College 972
5 (tie). Miami 969
5 (tie). Notre Dame 969
5 (tie). Northwestern 969
8. California 967
9. Georgia 965
10 (tie). Penn State 964
10 (tie). Wake Forest 964

Football BCS Bottom 10 APRs
1. Arizona 902
2. Washington State 916
3. South Florida 917
4. Kansas 919
5. Purdue 920
6 (tie). Oregon 921
6 (tie). South Carolina 921
8. Mississippi State 924
9 (tie). Michigan State 926
9 (tie). Oregon State 926

More fun with numbers! At least for BCS football conferences.

6. Big 12 - mean score 933.9, median score 935
5. Pac 10 - mean score 938.8, median score 937
4. Big 10 - mean score 943, median score 944
2. (tie) Big East - mean score 945.1, median score 944
2. (tie) SEC - mean score 945, median score 945
1. ACC - mean score 954.4, median score 951

Cheers,
Neil
05-07-2008 11:06 AM
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SoCalPanther Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
mlb Wrote:I don't believe that is the case. If a player leaves early but is in good academic standing, whether transferring or going to the NBA, it is the same penalty. The school loses 1 point towards the APR (each player can get 2 points a year). I think at minimum they take the hit for a year, afterwards they may come off the score (I'm not clear on how that works). Either way, with only 12 or 13 scholarship players, it doesn't take too many missed points before you are below the 925 score.


Good call mlb. I did a little bit of research and found this.

http://www.athleticmanagement.com/2007/0...early.html

Draft Prospects Schooled on APR
By Laura Ulrich

In early April, as the NCAA Division I Men’s Championship basketball tournament draws to a close, coaches and fans have traditionally watched very closely to see which players would declare for the NBA draft. In recent years, another group has also been interested—athletic administrators concerned about their teams’ Academic Progress Rates (APR).

Since the NCAA instituted the new academic measure in 2003-04, there has been increased pressure on institutions to urge players who leave for the professional ranks to remain in school through the end of the spring semester, finishing their coursework and earning grades that would have made them academically eligible for the fall.

Simply by leaving school and not re-enrolling for the fall, a player who turns pro costs his team one APR point. If he also stops attending class and doesn’t end the term in good academic standing, his team forgoes another point.

"Each athlete can earn a maximum of four APR points per year,” explains Keith Carodine, Associate Athletic Director for Academic Affairs at the University of Florida, where four high-profile juniors and two seniors from its back-to-back national champion men’s basketball team turned pro this spring. “If they are eligible at the end of the fall term, that’s one point. If they enroll in the spring, that’s a second point. If they are still eligible at the end of the spring, that’s a third point, and if they enroll in the next fall, that’s the fourth. When players go pro, the challenge for institutions is to make sure they complete their [spring semester] coursework so that they become a 3 for 4, not a 2 for 4.” Each year, teams receive an APR score from the NCAA. A 925 (out of a possible 1,000) is considered a passing score, and scores below that cut-off can earn teams sanctions, from loss of scholarships to loss of post-season opportunities, to eventual suspension from Division I for institutions that perform poorly enough. For teams on the bubble or already in academic trouble, making sure athletes who go pro still go 3 for 4 can be critical.

At Florida, the basketball team earned an APR of 903 in 2004-05. When 2005-06 scores were released May 2, the team had edged its score up to 917, still short of the 925 cutoff. So at Florida, administrators make sure players get the message that they’re expected to finish strong academically from a voice they will respect. “As soon as our basketball players declared for the draft, they were each required to attend a meeting with their academic advisor and Head Coach Billy Donovan,” Carodine says. “Coach Donovan stressed to them the importance of finishing out the term and told them point blank, ‘This is your responsibility.’”

So far, so good, according to Carodine—all the basketball players are still in school and on track to finish the term, and the academic support team is helping them juggle their career aspirations with their current studies. “We’re continuing to provide them the same strong academic support they’ve had all year,” he says. “They’re still working with their tutors, and next week, they’ll be in final exams.”

Florida sometimes takes an even more proactive approach with football players who are likely to go pro, according to Carodine. “If we know a football player is going to be focusing on the draft in the spring and they aren’t going to be able to take academics seriously, we sometimes counsel them that it’s in our best interest and in their own best interest for them not to enroll in the spring,” he says.

David Graham, Director of the Student Athlete Support Services Office at Ohio State University, has had plenty of recent experience with athletes turning pro. Earlier this year, three of the Buckeyes’ football players announced they were leaving early for the NFL, and following March Madness, three freshman basketball players declared for the NBA draft. “We knew we had three basketball players coming in this year who, if it weren’t for NBA rules, would probably have been drafted last year,” Graham says. “We knew they were projected to leave, so we had a lot of conversations in our department early-on about how to work with them.”

The first step in Ohio State’s process, according to Graham, is to make sure student-athletes who are eyeing an early leap to the professional ranks are operating on sound information. “Before they even start thinking seriously about leaving school, we want to make sure they have an accurate idea of what their chances will be at the professional level,” he says. “We help set them up with the right people to talk to at the professional organizations, because key personnel in these organizations can look at a player’s situation and make a very good estimation about what their chances of succeeding are. There are a lot of agents out there who will give student-athletes misinformation, so we make sure they have the right facts.”

Once an underclassman does declare for a draft, Graham’s next step is a sit-down meeting where he explains to the student-athletes what steps during the process could cause them to lose their college eligibility—including losing academic eligibility. At this point, he talks seriously about the need to continue working hard academically throughout the spring semester.

“I say to them, ‘What if you start sliding on teams’ draft boards and the scouts decide you’re not a lottery pick? At that point, you may decide not to go pro and want to return for another year in school,’" Graham explains. "So even as they’re flirting with this huge opportunity, we urge them to think about keeping their options open, not just for the sake of the program, but for also for their own benefit.”

Graham’s office also makes sure to get a student-athlete’s college advisors and professors involved immediately when that player starts considering going pro. “We make sure their advisors and each professor knows what’s going on so they can work with them, too,” Graham says. “With all the new responsibilities that go along with that process, we treat that time period just like a separate season, helping them work with professors to complete assignments while they’re on the road and making sure everything gets turned in on time.

“Having the APR has really made us think through these issues on a deeper level, because it has dramatically increased our accountability and placed academics squarely in the public eye,” he continues. “When I find myself having discussions with student-athletes in this situation, I do bring up the APR and how their choices will affect their team.”

Graham is doing a lot of talking about the APR to Ohio State’s coaches, as well. “If the coach gets it, they will find a way for the student-athlete to get it,” he says. “I think the most critical step for all of us is to make sure our coaches are up to speed with the APR, especially as the penalties become more real. If they understand what’s at stake, coaches with athletes who find themselves in this situation will be very motivated to help them make a plan to finish their academic work.”

On May 2, the NCAA released the most recent round of APR scores, based on 2005-06 data.
05-07-2008 11:41 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
KnightLight Wrote:
Hoquista Wrote:
KnightLight Wrote:*NOTE: How does UNC have such a high score when they lose players to the NBA? Thought any player who left before graduation is a "ding" on a program?
IIRC, The players that declare early - as long as they are 'making the grade' - do not count against the score. On the other hand, if a player transfers out - even IF the player is 'making the grade' - still lowers the score! 03-banghead
Ah...thanks for the clarification. (Still doesn't make much sense).
Is anything football related the NCAA rules upon without ambiguity? 03-banghead
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2008 01:52 PM by bitcruncher.)
05-07-2008 01:51 PM
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Cubanbull Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
The reality with USF is that in football we have gone from 1AA-1A independent-1ACUSA and now 1A Big East in a 7 year period. So many athletes recruited for one level could not compete with younger ones recruited for a higher level. This has caused many turnovers in kids transfering. Hell Bethune Cookman had at least 4 players this past years that originally started at USF. This has been taken into consideration.
In basketball our changing of coaches and leagues have also affected retention.
So Im ok with the currnt situation at USF and steps that have been taken to correct past mistakes. Some can be addressed those like moving up in competition are out of our hands.
05-07-2008 03:43 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
Many of the Carolina players who have left early have returned to earn their degrees. For instance when Michael Jordan and James Worthy left for the NBA, they both had promised Dean Smith that they would return and earn their degrees (they did).
It's not unusual to see a lot of former basketball players in summer school in Chapel Hill. The pickup basketball games against former Duke players at the Smith Center during the summer are legendary.
05-07-2008 04:47 PM
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mlb Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
I don't believe that helps them according to the APR, as they aren't enrolled in school. My guess is that those guys who left early finished their degrees before going pro.
05-07-2008 04:53 PM
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UltimateCFBfan Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
Oh yea Rutgers tied with Duke for 2nd place Sweet
05-07-2008 04:55 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
wat is the significance of an APR... i don't understand this...
05-07-2008 09:10 PM
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mlb Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
APR is similar the NCAA's old graduation rates... only now they can penalize schools for not performing up to par. They can remove scholarships, take away post season appearances, etc., up to giving the death penalty if a program is not doing its scholastic work.
05-07-2008 09:30 PM
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
alright i gotcha thx...
05-07-2008 09:40 PM
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rferry Offline
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RE: Top 10 and Bottom 10 BCS Programs from APR Scores
mlb Wrote:I don't believe that helps them according to the APR, as they aren't enrolled in school. My guess is that those guys who left early finished their degrees before going pro.
"Teams receive bonus points if student-athletes who have left school return at a later time to earn their degree."
http://umterps.cstv.com/genrel/050608aae.html
However, they must graduate within six years.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2008 10:31 PM by rferry.)
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