frogman Wrote:Bitchruncher: We've already taken out the ACC and turned towards the SEC and took them out too. But the SEC bounced back so we gotta go after them again.

what? lol

XLance Wrote:If Notre Dame decides on the ACC or the Big 10, the Big East will be divided amongst the ACC, SEC and Big 10.

And unfortunately Cincinnati is probably left holding the bag for the football schools in the big east....

It doesn't fit in the ACC or SEC's true fingerprint, Louisville, WVU, and USF fit the SEC. ACC would have interest in UConn and Rutgers, possibly Syracuse. Big 10 would have interest in Rutgers and Pittsburgh.

OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:Big East made some wise decisions with expansion. Louisville, Cincinnati, and South Florida all doing well on the football side. Marquette and Louisville doing well on the basketball side.

great analysis Captain Obvious

Why not 16? rutgers,syracuse,w.vir, and uconn, have two eight team divisons and sell two sets of network packages, home team network gets the game. Of course if your looking at 14 ...the team that makes the most sense to start off with for the ACC is rutgers...that adds the nj market and you can argue the philly and NYC market which doesn't have any acc ties... don't think there is any point for acc expansion without rutgers. As for team #14, it really doesn't matter between syracuse or uconn, i prefer state flagship school's, more so for the acc cause they lack them but given the acc history, cuse probably has the leg up...also it blocks the big 10 from getting a hold in the region, well uconn to the big 10 could happen but cuse to the big 10 seems more logical. The big picture is why expand at all?

bluesox Wrote:Why not 16? rutgers,syracuse,w.vir, and uconn, have two eight team divisons and sell two sets of network packages, home team network gets the game. Of course if your looking at 14 ...the team that makes the most sense to start off with for the ACC is rutgers...that adds the nj market and you can argue the philly and NYC market which doesn't have any acc ties... don't think there is any point for acc expansion without rutgers. As for team #14, it really doesn't matter between syracuse or uconn, i prefer state flagship school's, more so for the acc cause they lack them but given the acc history, cuse probably has the leg up...also it blocks the big 10 from getting a hold in the region, well uconn to the big 10 could happen but cuse to the big 10 seems more logical. The big picture is why expand at all?

16 "all-sports" doesn't work: WAC. It makes for the idea of :let's split and add one for a better up and down league, remember?

The ACC is too big allready. I think if they were some how able to get rid of BC and get South Carolina it would make more sense. Even ECU, since that would give more strength to the Old North State.

XLance Wrote:Thanks Hoquista for finding the article about Syracuse.
The expansion arguement, for those of us who were not in favor, was "it's all about the money". That hasn't changed. The ACC has a great business model with exceptional management.
If Notre Dame decides on the ACC or the Big 10, the Big East will be divided amongst the ACC, SEC and Big 10.

Yes, because I still can't believe that we wanted Syracuse. That must have been the combo of academia/basketball prowess. I just recall the ACC of yor being much more Southern oriented. Even Florida was a big step, since they are faux-southerners (haha jk).

EvilVodka1 Wrote:

frogman Wrote:Bitchruncher: We've already taken out the ACC and turned towards the SEC and took them out too. But the SEC bounced back so we gotta go after them again.

what? lol

He thinks one bowl win is taking out the SEC. Give him a break, he's still young.

I also see everyone decide to ignore my sarcasm. Do you mean to tell me that not one of you has a comment on the stupidity of it all?

bitcruncher Wrote:Just for the sake of argument...

If you really want to realign the conferences, and keep in mind of the b!tch!ng of the ACC, Big Ten, Big XII, and SEC about the disadvantages of having to play a conference championship game, then we should put 10 as the optimum number. This will eliminate all conference championship games. Confernce championships will be determined by ranking, and post season games between conference teams with matchups picked at random. We could call it the Conference Choatic. The bowl season would commence after the Conference Choatic. We would have such chaos and confusion that it would generate enough talk to keep the fans occupied throughout the year, and interest would increase about 100 fold.

Isn't that what they've told us about the BCS?

I am depressed...

I sure hate to see ya like this, Mr. Taggart...

EvilVodka1 Wrote:

frogman Wrote:Bitchruncher: We've already taken out the ACC and turned towards the SEC and took them out too. But the SEC bounced back so we gotta go after them again.

what? lol

O-K say our champion beat your champion in a BCS game played on your champion's home field. What more can we do? What more can we do???

Since there's a fantasy going about that Rutgers will somehow entertain the thought of joining the ACC. I think the truth is that in order to add someone the ACC needs to drop someone. WHo do they drop.

Based on what happened to VT and BC this season in the ACC it seems like they BE teams may end up carrying the conference. What incentive is there for Rutgers to put food on the table for NCst, GT or WF?

At the time I wanted SU to go just to get away from Uconn and Rutgers emergence into Big East. I was terriefied at what was going to happen had those programs become winners. My nightmare became reality and low behind SU football hit the chitter. In reality I think the ACC would have help Syracuse football greatly, the same way the ACC helps BC they ran away. I wanted SU to get away from Uconn and Rutgers, I still want SU to get away from these programs because with these programs established greatly effects Syracuse university recruiting,market, and fanbase. Basketball I think SU will still be a winner in that sport, but the ACC raid was about football.

Adding to my post schools like WVU,Pitt the other pre NBE members weren't going to feel the side effects once Uconn was added and Rutgers became a winner. The 2 programs that would have suffered were suprise suprise syracuse and boston college. Every since Schaino has got to Rutgers he has set out take out Syracuse and BC. With Uconn being added to Big East football it was no suprise that many people in BC athelitc departmart took the ACC invite. Kids like Ray Rice,Brian Leonard, Courtney Green, Tyvon Branch all talent that Syracuse used to get before Rutgers and Uconn arrieved on scene. What I'm saying is that there only so much talent in the NorthEast and adding more programs to the Big East only makes it tougher. The ACC invite was scene as a way to get more $$ and to get new recruiting oppertunities.

Syracuse has always looked to the far horizon. There lies the Orange destiny. It doesn't matter where Syracuse is, the reason for their ills is always that they should be somewhere else. They helped kill any chance at a true eastern all-sports conference selfish longings, and that attitude hasn't changed at all in the minds of many.

bitcruncher Wrote:Syracuse has always looked to the far horizon. There lies the Orange destiny. It doesn't matter where Syracuse is, the reason for their ills is always that they should be somewhere else. They helped kill any chance at a true eastern all-sports conference selfish longings, and that attitude hasn't changed at all in the minds of many.

Bit, when you get it wrong, you get it wrong.

Even in your fantasyland world where the PSU eastern conference (without Maryland, because despite what JoePa says, that was NEVER happening) would have come about with all the advantages to them - the Nittany Lions would likely have gone running the minute the Big Ten offered an invite.

Penn State had no loyalty to conferences, as their sudden departure from the Eastern 8 showed.

I'm happy that West Virginia is now enjoying the fruits of the labor that Jake Crouthamel at Syracuse worked so hard to bring about.

You do realize that it was him (and thus Syracuse) that actually managed to create an "eastern" football conference - as flawed as it is - with the majority of those schools JoePa couldn't convince, right?

Cheers,
Neil

What has been created is a poor substitute.

omnicarrier Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:Syracuse has always looked to the far horizon. There lies the Orange destiny. It doesn't matter where Syracuse is, the reason for their ills is always that they should be somewhere else. They helped kill any chance at a true eastern all-sports conference selfish longings, and that attitude hasn't changed at all in the minds of many.

Bit, when you get it wrong, you get it wrong.

Even in your fantasyland world where the PSU eastern conference (without Maryland, because despite what JoePa says, that was NEVER happening) would have come about with all the advantages to them - the Nittany Lions would likely have gone running the minute the Big Ten offered an invite.

Penn State had no loyalty to conferences, as their sudden departure from the Eastern 8 showed.

I'm happy that West Virginia is now enjoying the fruits of the labor that Jake Crouthamel at Syracuse worked so hard to bring about.

You do realize that it was him (and thus Syracuse) that actually managed to create an "eastern" football conference - as flawed as it is - with the majority of those schools JoePa couldn't convince, right?

Cheers,
Neil

How do you know they would have asked? Did they invite Notre Dame at the same time? Why would eleven be a target number for a conference?

bitcruncher Wrote:What has been created is a poor substitute.

So you'd rather have nothing? Because that is exactly what JoePa managed to create - nothing.

He was unable to convince SU, Pitt, and BC. So since he had West Virginia, Rutgers, and Temple on board, why didn't he just go ahead and start with them?

Jake Crouthamel would have preferred PSU, but not getting the Nittany Lions didn't stop him. He managed to get Miami, West Virginia, Rutgers, Temple, and VT.

He also managed to help inspire UConn to go to 1-A level, something they never would have done without a Big East football conference.

And while West Virginia, Pitt, and Rutgers were too involved in their lawsuit, it took a returning Jake Crouthamel to begin working on the new Big East.

Again, the fact that there is even a northeastern football conference, as flawed as it is, is due mostly to one man - Jake Crouthamel. So take your erroneous cracks about Syracuse and stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

Cheers,
Neil

esayem Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:Syracuse has always looked to the far horizon. There lies the Orange destiny. It doesn't matter where Syracuse is, the reason for their ills is always that they should be somewhere else. They helped kill any chance at a true eastern all-sports conference selfish longings, and that attitude hasn't changed at all in the minds of many.

Bit, when you get it wrong, you get it wrong.

Even in your fantasyland world where the PSU eastern conference (without Maryland, because despite what JoePa says, that was NEVER happening) would have come about with all the advantages to them - the Nittany Lions would likely have gone running the minute the Big Ten offered an invite.

Penn State had no loyalty to conferences, as their sudden departure from the Eastern 8 showed.

I'm happy that West Virginia is now enjoying the fruits of the labor that Jake Crouthamel at Syracuse worked so hard to bring about.

You do realize that it was him (and thus Syracuse) that actually managed to create an "eastern" football conference - as flawed as it is - with the majority of those schools JoePa couldn't convince, right?

Cheers,
Neil

How do you know they would have asked? Did they invite Notre Dame at the same time? Why would eleven be a target number for a conference?

Not sure what you are responding to, but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the post you quoted by me.

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:What has been created is a poor substitute.

So you'd rather have nothing? Because that is exactly what JoePa managed to create - nothing.

He was unable to convince SU, Pitt, and BC. So since he had West Virginia, Rutgers, and Temple on board, why didn't he just go ahead and start with them?

Jake Crouthamel would have preferred PSU, but not getting the Nittany Lions didn't stop him. He managed to get Miami, West Virginia, Rutgers, Temple, and VT.

He also managed to help inspire UConn to go to 1-A level, something they never would have done without a Big East football conference.

And while West Virginia, Pitt, and Rutgers were too involved in their lawsuit, it took a returning Jake Crouthamel to begin working on the new Big East.

Again, the fact that there is even a northeastern football conference, as flawed as it is, is due mostly to one man - Jake Crouthamel. So take your erroneous cracks about Syracuse and stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

Cheers,
Neil

PusherT Wrote:Adding to my post schools like WVU,Pitt the other pre NBE members weren't going to feel the side effects once Uconn was added and Rutgers became a winner. The 2 programs that would have suffered were suprise suprise syracuse and boston college. Every since Schaino has got to Rutgers he has set out take out Syracuse and BC. With Uconn being added to Big East football it was no suprise that many people in BC athelitc departmart took the ACC invite. Kids like Ray Rice,Brian Leonard, Courtney Green, Tyvon Branch all talent that Syracuse used to get before Rutgers and Uconn arrieved on scene. What I'm saying is that there only so much talent in the NorthEast and adding more programs to the Big East only makes it tougher. The ACC invite was scene as a way to get more $$ and to get new recruiting oppertunities.

Boy it kills me to see Syracuse fans talk this way...There was a time when I hated SU football almost to the level that I do hate Pitt, Maryland and Va Tech and now to see some fans (certainly not just you Pusher) afraid of competing with Rutgers and Uconn in football?!?! I guess the times are a changin'...just a couple of thoughts on the subject

A)If Pasquolini wasn't fired then Ray Rice would have played for Syracuse and it could be argued that this whole era of SU football woudl have been different. Rice was that good of a college player

B) RU had connections with Leonard because of his brother, correct? Its not like Schiano "out-recruited" anyone, he just had a closer tie to the kid

C) If Syracuse is having trouble recruiting in the northeast, then perhaps they need to expand or adjust there recruiting territory. West Virginia is completly different know in terms of recruiting areas then it was 15 yrs ago. Did you know WVU had more players from Mississippi then from New Jersey on last yrs team? If current trends continue the Mountaineers will have more players from VA and DC then from Eastern and Western PA. I distinctly remember Boston College starting to recruit in VA in the late 1990s

What about the state of Ohio? I think it could be argued that Pitt and WVU have an easier time in Ohio then before the raid because of the additions of UC and UL. Can basically tell a parent that all home games and three conference road games are within driving distance. Perhaps that would be something for SU to explore in the future.

D) If you wanted to recruit the northeast better then maybe SU should have hired a coach from the region. Schiano is from Jersey. Edsell at Uconn has coached all over the east. Robinsion is from California. Who is going to have more connections? Recruiting is often just about who a coach knows.

E) It saddens me to see SU fans, especially on there board, say something to the effect of things would be different if we were in the ACC...You guys are the flagship school in the league so many ways and in so many people's minds...act like it instead of wishing you could trade place with BC

Jackson

omnicarrier Wrote:

esayem Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:Syracuse has always looked to the far horizon. There lies the Orange destiny. It doesn't matter where Syracuse is, the reason for their ills is always that they should be somewhere else. They helped kill any chance at a true eastern all-sports conference selfish longings, and that attitude hasn't changed at all in the minds of many.

Bit, when you get it wrong, you get it wrong.

Even in your fantasyland world where the PSU eastern conference (without Maryland, because despite what JoePa says, that was NEVER happening) would have come about with all the advantages to them - the Nittany Lions would likely have gone running the minute the Big Ten offered an invite.

Penn State had no loyalty to conferences, as their sudden departure from the Eastern 8 showed.

I'm happy that West Virginia is now enjoying the fruits of the labor that Jake Crouthamel at Syracuse worked so hard to bring about.

You do realize that it was him (and thus Syracuse) that actually managed to create an "eastern" football conference - as flawed as it is - with the majority of those schools JoePa couldn't convince, right?

Cheers,
Neil

How do you know they would have asked? Did they invite Notre Dame at the same time? Why would eleven be a target number for a conference?

Not sure what you are responding to, but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the post you quoted by me.

Cheers,
Neil

I am saying I don't think the Big 10 would have invited Penn State if they were the flagship of their own league.

The Eastern 8? Sudden depature, so what they weren't an all-sports conference. Nobody would have asked JoePa to join a league if he was commish of one, which would have happend if the east coast hot shots hadn't slept on the idea.

And btw Penn State was nothing to the Eastern 8 or A10. Mediocre basketball even to this day, oh I know they beat us in the tourney one year, but most of the time they weren't dancing.

And it was at the point where Crouthamel had to create an eastern conference so that really isn't bragworthy material.