Hoquista Wrote:

Orange Eagles Wrote:

esayem Wrote:I believe if Notre Dame ever joins a conference it will be one they create. As an affiliate they choose who they want to play in their own league now! I think they would take Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, and UConn(maybe?) for the football conference. Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova, and Marquette as all other sports. Then they could easily get Boston College, Miami, or Penn State to join for all-sports super-conference possibilities. Sorry to the BE schools Notre Dame avoids. ND could probably rig it so they could play a 6 game slate, then they could still play USC/Michigan/Navy and rotate Purdue/MSU.

esayem, I can't believe I'm going to agree with you...but this is an excellent point that I never considered. ND would want to choose their conference, and I think you're dead on. That certainly would be interesting to see unfold.

Building a conference from scratch is extremely difficult to do - which is why it's simply easier to build on an existing conference. In this case, all you need to do is add the 4 teams you suggested (BC, Miami, ND, and PSU) onto the existing BE FB schools. This conference would get tons of $$$$. This would make a nice 12 team conference - with a championship game potentially just about anywhere on the east coast. You also have a traveling partner with Miami (USF). I think many on this board would be extremely happy!

Of course, it'll never happen though as you need BOTH ND and PSU to make it happen.

To me, that conference is a no-brainer.

Let's make it happen.

Cheers,
Neil

CatsClaw Wrote:Well there is a very good chance that Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida wouldn't be in the Big East so I'm satisfied with the conference as it's constructed now. :)

Actually, as much as I wanted a Northeastern Conference of PSU, SU, Pitt, BC, WVU, Rutgers, Temple, and whoever would have been #8 back then - (I'm one of those that don't think it would have been Maryland) - I've got to admit Louisville, Cincinnati, Connecticut and South Florida look a lot better to me than Temple and whoever it would have been.



Cheers,
Neil

Quote:It was Penn State's lack of interest in even considering the overtures of SU, Pitt, and BC that led to them turning to the Hurricanes who were eventually invited to join the Big East in October of 1990. Miami was the only member of the new football conference that was considered for full membership at that time.

One month after Miami accepted the invite, Jim Boeheim publically blasted the athletics department of Penn State stating that neither their football program nor their basketball program would be able to win in the Big Ten.

He also said at the same time, "The whole discussion came from talking about Miami coming to the Big East and how that saved us from maybe having to go to the Big Ten," Boeheim said. "What I said was, there is no way Syracuse could win in the Big Ten or the ACC. And I'm talking Syracuse. And now that Penn State is going, they would have an even lesser chance."

While that little snippet is all that is left of the published comments he made, the thrust of his longer argument was that Penn State in both sports recruits mostly in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, NYC, and Baltimore and that it's joining the Big Ten would dry up its recruiting altogether in basketball and lessen it in football since it would be perceived as a midwestern school playing in a midwestern conference.

He felt the same way about Syracuse basketball joining either the Big Ten or the ACC.

-- Boeheim would seem to have been correct about PSU. There football program really isn't the same as it once was...I was on a chat on one of the WVU boards and Beno Cook was the guest for the day...Of course one of our fans asked Beno when WVU and PSU would play again in football and Cook said the Nits will not play the Mountaineers while they are this good in football...that kind of statement would have been unthinkable 20 yrs ago

And of course PSU bball has made little progress since its A10 days

Quote:Actually, as much as I wanted a Northeastern Conference of PSU, SU, Pitt, BC, WVU, Rutgers, Temple, and whoever would have been #8 back then -

-- the rumor I heard a long time ago was that maryland was supposed to be #8...and Army and Navy would have been 9 and 10....It would have been interesting to see how that kind of league would have worked..but that might have been on the table prior to the Big East conference forming

Jackson

Metro could have been:

Louisville
Cincinnati
Memphis
Georgia Tech
South Carolina
FSU
Miami
PSU
Pittsbugh
West Virginia
Virgina Tech
Southern Miss

omnicarrier Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:Well there is a very good chance that Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida wouldn't be in the Big East so I'm satisfied with the conference as it's constructed now. :)

Actually, as much as I wanted a Northeastern Conference of PSU, SU, Pitt, BC, WVU, Rutgers, Temple, and whoever would have been #8 back then - (I'm one of those that don't think it would have been Maryland) - I've got to admit Louisville, Cincinnati, Connecticut and South Florida look a lot better to me than Temple and whoever it would have been.



Cheers,
Neil

Yeah, everything has worked out for the most part. The perfect scenerio would be the Big East splitting and adding Penn State, but that's not happening. As long as there is no more conference expansion outside of the Big East and a split is at least being explored, and the pros and cons laid out, I'm pleased with where we are, save for a need to improve the bowl lineup, which the Big East is working on right now.

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:It was Penn State's lack of interest in even considering the overtures of SU, Pitt, and BC that led to them turning to the Hurricanes who were eventually invited to join the Big East in October of 1990. Miami was the only member of the new football conference that was considered for full membership at that time.

One month after Miami accepted the invite, Jim Boeheim publically blasted the athletics department of Penn State stating that neither their football program nor their basketball program would be able to win in the Big Ten.

He also said at the same time, "The whole discussion came from talking about Miami coming to the Big East and how that saved us from maybe having to go to the Big Ten," Boeheim said. "What I said was, there is no way Syracuse could win in the Big Ten or the ACC. And I'm talking Syracuse. And now that Penn State is going, they would have an even lesser chance."

While that little snippet is all that is left of the published comments he made, the thrust of his longer argument was that Penn State in both sports recruits mostly in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, NYC, and Baltimore and that it's joining the Big Ten would dry up its recruiting altogether in basketball and lessen it in football since it would be perceived as a midwestern school playing in a midwestern conference.

He felt the same way about Syracuse basketball joining either the Big Ten or the ACC.

-- Boeheim would seem to have been correct about PSU. There football program really isn't the same as it once was...I was on a chat on one of the WVU boards and Beno Cook was the guest for the day...Of course one of our fans asked Beno when WVU and PSU would play again in football and Cook said the Nits will not play the Mountaineers while they are this good in football...that kind of statement would have been unthinkable 20 yrs ago

And of course PSU bball has made little progress since its A10 days

Quote:Actually, as much as I wanted a Northeastern Conference of PSU, SU, Pitt, BC, WVU, Rutgers, Temple, and whoever would have been #8 back then -

-- the rumor I heard a long time ago was that maryland was supposed to be #8...and Army and Navy would have been 9 and 10....It would have been interesting to see how that kind of league would have worked..but that might have been on the table prior to the Big East conference forming

Jackson

A football conference with Penn State, Syracuse, Pitt, BC, West Virginia, Rutgers, Temple and Maryland would have died on the vine I believe. There is no way that conference would have survived as a superconference. And, at some point, someone would have come along (probably the ACC and Big Ten) and took Maryland and Penn State away, and then the conference would have really died a horrible death.

Wilkie01 Wrote:Metro could have been:

Louisville
Cincinnati
Memphis
Georgia Tech
South Carolina
FSU
Miami
PSU
Pittsbugh
West Virginia
Virgina Tech
Southern Miss

That would've been a hella of a Football league. Im still hoping oneday So.Miss gets into the Big East...but only if we go with Memphis and East Carolina. If those two schools go into the Big East without Southern Miss that would kill away all of the rivalries Southern Miss has in that league.... outside of the game with Tulane. And im one Southern Miss fan who would love to see us restablish our rivalry with Louisville.

omnicarrier Wrote:

Krocker Krapp Wrote:That was the case in the late 1970s and early 1980s when Joe Paterno first proposed an Eastern League. By 1989, Penn State knew very well that the NCAA landscape was shifting towards equality within conferences. The Nittany Lions started talking to the Big Ten in 1990 fully realizing this.

We are also talking about Penn State joining the Big East as a basketball and minor sports member, not as a football member, in both 1982 and 1989. Joe Paterno's football desires do not matter in this context as the Nittany Lions would have remained independents on the gridiron at that time.

There is a distinct difference between 1982 and 1989. In 1982, JoePa actually wanted in. In 1989, it was Syracuse, Pitt, and BC sending feelers out to Penn State if they were interested in the Big East. And they weren't, since Jordan was already hard at work on the Big Ten invite that would late in that year.

I understand the difference. My point was that, either way, the situation would have been Penn State joining the Big East for basketball and minor sports, not football, so revenue sharing in that situation would not have been an issue. It seems that BC, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse had one agenda - which Joe Paterno was opening up to - while Bryce Jordan had another agenda.

The other thing about early 1989 is that Jake Crouthamel himself has been quoted as saying that Paterno told him the Nittany Lions were again interested in joining the Big East but the league refused to even discuss the matter. Could this have been a case of Paterno trying to get another offer to weigh against the Big Ten because he really did not want to join that league?

omnicarrier Wrote:

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Once they were a member in basketball and minor sports, by the time the Big East got around to discussing football in 1990, Penn State would have been entrenched already. Joe Paterno would have had no alternative if he refused to allow equal football membership except to leave the league.

Remember also that the Nittany Lions started talking to the Big Ten in 1990, a league which shares sports revenues equally, and bought into that philosophy in order to join up. So a Penn State which had already been in the Big East for eight years would have likely given up that concession.

In actuality, the Nits began integrating some of their sports into the Big Ten in the Fall of 1990, the invite to join came in December of 1989.

It was Penn State's lack of interest in even considering the overtures of SU, Pitt, and BC that led to them turning to the Hurricanes who were eventually invited to join the Big East in October of 1990. Miami was the only member of the new football conference that was considered for full membership at that time.

One month after Miami accepted the invite, Jim Boeheim publically blasted the athletics department of Penn State stating that neither their football program nor their basketball program would be able to win in the Big Ten.

He also said at the same time, "The whole discussion came from talking about Miami coming to the Big East and how that saved us from maybe having to go to the Big Ten," Boeheim said. "What I said was, there is no way Syracuse could win in the Big Ten or the ACC. And I'm talking Syracuse. And now that Penn State is going, they would have an even lesser chance."

While that little snippet is all that is left of the published comments he made, the thrust of his longer argument was that Penn State in both sports recruits mostly in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, NYC, and Baltimore and that it's joining the Big Ten would dry up its recruiting altogether in basketball and lessen it in football since it would be perceived as a midwestern school playing in a midwestern conference.

He felt the same way about Syracuse basketball joining either the Big Ten or the ACC.

Of course part of his anger against Penn State was likely fueled by the fact that he thought it should have been the Nits and not the Hurricanes who joined the Big East.

Okay. I was technically off by a few months. Penn State started talking to the Big Ten in the fall of 1989 rather than the beginning of 1990. As I said above, it seems like Joe Paterno was receptive to the overtures of BC, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse in early 1989 but the school's president, Bryce Jordan, had already changed directions and only had his mind set on the Big Ten by then.

What you say about Miami also reinforces my point that the Big East did not really want the Hurricanes as full members. They were simply the most palatable option at the time. Penn State is who the three football members really wanted but the Catholic basketball members refused to even discuss it. The smart move would have been to invite them anyway, even as a P.R. stunt.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

Krocker Krapp Wrote:That was the case in the late 1970s and early 1980s when Joe Paterno first proposed an Eastern League. By 1989, Penn State knew very well that the NCAA landscape was shifting towards equality within conferences. The Nittany Lions started talking to the Big Ten in 1990 fully realizing this.

We are also talking about Penn State joining the Big East as a basketball and minor sports member, not as a football member, in both 1982 and 1989. Joe Paterno's football desires do not matter in this context as the Nittany Lions would have remained independents on the gridiron at that time.

There is a distinct difference between 1982 and 1989. In 1982, JoePa actually wanted in. In 1989, it was Syracuse, Pitt, and BC sending feelers out to Penn State if they were interested in the Big East. And they weren't, since Jordan was already hard at work on the Big Ten invite that would late in that year.

I understand the difference. My point was that, either way, the situation would have been Penn State joining the Big East for basketball and minor sports, not football, so revenue sharing in that situation would not have been an issue. It seems that BC, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse had one agenda - which Joe Paterno was opening up to - while Bryce Jordan had another agenda.

I agree with the point that had Penn State joined in 1982, it would have been for sports other than football. However, the 1989 overtures by the BE to Penn State was definitely about football. But by that time, what JoePa had previously wanted in terms of revenue sharing didn't matter. Both Paterno and Bryce Jordan were working to get into the Big Ten.

Quote:The other thing about early 1989 is that Jake Crouthamel himself has been quoted as saying that Paterno told him the Nittany Lions were again interested in joining the Big East but the league refused to even discuss the matter. Could this have been a case of Paterno trying to get another offer to weigh against the Big Ten because he really did not want to join that league?

I think the latter is an overestimation of Penn State's interest in the Big East in 1989 by Crouthamel. Per his history of the Big East:

"The BIG EAST re-opened quiet discussions with Penn State about membership. Suddenly, the Big Ten jumped in and snapped up Penn State."

In actuality, Bryce Jordan with Joe Paterno's backing had been trying for Big Ten membership for a while by that time. When JoePa expressed interest in the Big East's quiet overtures in 1989, he was likely using said interest to spur the Big Ten to grab the Nits quick before the Big East did. Crouthamel just didn't understand they were being used at that time.

Besides JoePa secretly always resented the Big East's vote not to officially offer membership to Penn State. And to this day, he so resents it that he doesn't even acknowledge that said vote ever even took place.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Once they were a member in basketball and minor sports, by the time the Big East got around to discussing football in 1990, Penn State would have been entrenched already. Joe Paterno would have had no alternative if he refused to allow equal football membership except to leave the league.

Remember also that the Nittany Lions started talking to the Big Ten in 1990, a league which shares sports revenues equally, and bought into that philosophy in order to join up. So a Penn State which had already been in the Big East for eight years would have likely given up that concession.

In actuality, the Nits began integrating some of their sports into the Big Ten in the Fall of 1990, the invite to join came in December of 1989.

It was Penn State's lack of interest in even considering the overtures of SU, Pitt, and BC that led to them turning to the Hurricanes who were eventually invited to join the Big East in October of 1990. Miami was the only member of the new football conference that was considered for full membership at that time.

One month after Miami accepted the invite, Jim Boeheim publically blasted the athletics department of Penn State stating that neither their football program nor their basketball program would be able to win in the Big Ten.

He also said at the same time, "The whole discussion came from talking about Miami coming to the Big East and how that saved us from maybe having to go to the Big Ten," Boeheim said. "What I said was, there is no way Syracuse could win in the Big Ten or the ACC. And I'm talking Syracuse. And now that Penn State is going, they would have an even lesser chance."

While that little snippet is all that is left of the published comments he made, the thrust of his longer argument was that Penn State in both sports recruits mostly in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, NYC, and Baltimore and that it's joining the Big Ten would dry up its recruiting altogether in basketball and lessen it in football since it would be perceived as a midwestern school playing in a midwestern conference.

He felt the same way about Syracuse basketball joining either the Big Ten or the ACC.

Of course part of his anger against Penn State was likely fueled by the fact that he thought it should have been the Nits and not the Hurricanes who joined the Big East.

What you say about Miami also reinforces my point that the Big East did not really want the Hurricanes as full members. They were simply the most palatable option at the time. Penn State is who the three football members really wanted but the Catholic basketball members refused to even discuss it. The smart move would have been to invite them anyway, even as a P.R. stunt.

My comments regarding Miami was in response to your contention that they were the lesser of evils from amongst WVU, RU, Temple, and VT.

Also from Crouthamel's History of the Big East:

"Our (SU, Pitt, and BC) plea fell on deaf ears (the Catholic schools). The three of us could not remain as independents in football and survive in an environment with everyone joining football-playing conferences. The problem was compounded by the fact that the other eastern football independents (Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia and Virginia Tech) were not in the BIG EAST, and none of them had a flagship football program like a Penn State. Only two other independent football schools carried such a status, Florida State and Miami, and both the ACC and SEC were talking with each one.

Our BIG EAST basketball compatriots recognized the urgency of the situation, and agreed to extend full membership to Miami with the clear understanding that Miami would work with us to solve the football milieu. Thus, after a lot of courting and mating dances, Miami became our 10th member. With Miami in our fold, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech and Temple had no other choice but to join B.C., Pitt, Miami and Syracuse in a football only federation called The BIG EAST Football Conference."

As can be seen by the above, with Penn State removed from the picture, Miami was needed to even have the hopes of getting a Big East football conference off the ground.

There simply was no comparison with Miami and the other programs that would join the BE football conference. In truth, as a program they were even superior to Penn State, although the Nits made more sense geographically and in terms of rivalries that already existed.

However, the Hurricanes have to be given their due - without them there would be no Big East football conference. And I just thought it odd that you were lumping them in with the others when you wrote this:

"The Catholic basketball schools were never particularly enamored with Miami but they needed to pick a football school as the 10th member at that time. It came down to Miami, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, or Temple. The Hurricanes were just the least of five evils to take."

Peace.

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:I agree with the point that had Penn State joined in 1982, it would have been for sports other than football. However, the 1989 overtures by the BE to Penn State was definitely about football. But by that time, what JoePa had previously wanted in terms of revenue sharing didn't matter. Both Paterno and Bryce Jordan were working to get into the Big Ten.

That is fine but I already stated that "by 1989, Penn State knew very well that the NCAA landscape was shifting towards equality within conferences" in one of the posts above. It was OrangeEagles who seemed to be implying that Penn State would have continued to want unfair revenue benefits. I posted that to point out the differences between 1982, when this was the issue, and 1989, when that would not have been the case any longer.

omnicarrier Wrote:I think the latter is an overestimation of Penn State's interest in the Big East in 1989 by Crouthamel. Per his history of the Big East:

"The BIG EAST re-opened quiet discussions with Penn State about membership. Suddenly, the Big Ten jumped in and snapped up Penn State."

In actuality, Bryce Jordan with Joe Paterno's backing had been trying for Big Ten membership for a while by that time. When JoePa expressed interest in the Big East's quiet overtures in 1989, he was likely using said interest to spur the Big Ten to grab the Nits quick before the Big East did. Crouthamel just didn't understand they were being used at that time.

Besides JoePa secretly always resented the Big East's vote not to officially offer membership to Penn State. And to this day, he so resents it that he doesn't even acknowledge that said vote ever even took place.

Joe Paterno's reasons for telling Jake Crouthamel he was interested may not have been what I speculated, fear of playing in the Big Ten, but he did start talking to BC, Pitt, and Syracuse about their overtures for a reason. He did want a Big East offer to weigh against the Big Ten. If you are right, though, his purpose for that was to make the Big Ten hurry up and vote them in rather than for Penn State to actually choose between the two leagues.

omnicarrier Wrote:My comments regarding Miami was in response to your contention that they were the lesser of evils from amongst WVU, RU, Temple, and VT.

Also from Crouthamel's History of the Big East:

"Our (SU, Pitt, and BC) plea fell on deaf ears (the Catholic schools). The three of us could not remain as independents in football and survive in an environment with everyone joining football-playing conferences. The problem was compounded by the fact that the other eastern football independents (Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia and Virginia Tech) were not in the BIG EAST, and none of them had a flagship football program like a Penn State. Only two other independent football schools carried such a status, Florida State and Miami, and both the ACC and SEC were talking with each one.

Our BIG EAST basketball compatriots recognized the urgency of the situation, and agreed to extend full membership to Miami with the clear understanding that Miami would work with us to solve the football milieu. Thus, after a lot of courting and mating dances, Miami became our 10th member. With Miami in our fold, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech and Temple had no other choice but to join B.C., Pitt, Miami and Syracuse in a football only federation called The BIG EAST Football Conference."

As can be seen by the above, with Penn State removed from the picture, Miami was needed to even have the hopes of getting a Big East football conference off the ground.

There simply was no comparison with Miami and the other programs that would join the BE football conference. In truth, as a program they were even superior to Penn State, although the Nits made more sense geographically and in terms of rivalries that already existed.

However, the Hurricanes have to be given their due - without them there would be no Big East football conference. And I just thought it odd that you were lumping them in with the others when you wrote this:

"The Catholic basketball schools were never particularly enamored with Miami but they needed to pick a football school as the 10th member at that time. It came down to Miami, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, or Temple. The Hurricanes were just the least of five evils to take."

I was not trying to insuate that Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, or Temple carried the same football prestige as Miami. My point was that the Catholic basketball schools never truly wanted the Hurricanes in the Big East. They voted them in begrudgingly and remorsefully after finally realizing, too late, what a stupid mistake it was to not make a final effort to get Penn State. None of the other four "evils" had a shot at full membership back then.

All I Know is; Ironiclly Temple was the only school with winning record in '90, when BE was formed. Maybe Temple was the football power that they were looking for.





my mistake, Mia 10-2, VT 6-5, Syc 7-4-2, Temple 7-4

Krocker Krapp Wrote:I was not trying to insuate that Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, or Temple carried the same football prestige as Miami. My point was that the Catholic basketball schools never truly wanted the Hurricanes in the Big East. They voted them in begrudgingly and remorsefully after finally realizing, too late, what a stupid mistake it was to not make a final effort to get Penn State. None of the other four "evils" had a shot at full membership back then.

Agreed. The way you originally worded it just seemed strange to me, that's all.

Peace.

Cheers,
Neil

Yikes. I can't believe I misspelled "insinuate" in that post.

templefootballfan Wrote:All I Know is; Ironiclly Temple was the only school with winning record in '90, when BE was formed. Maybe Temple was the football power that they were looking for.





my mistake, Mia 10-2, VT 6-5, Syc 7-4-2, Temple 7-4

Just a minor mistake

A Great Fact Checker

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

DFW HOYA Wrote:

esayem Wrote:Krocker: Miami was enough of a heavyweight to get in an as a full member. I think if Penn State was to be admitted in the early 80's, Villanova never quits 1-A football and Temple is not discussed as the 8th member.

Villanova dropped I-A football after the 1981 season and picked it back up in I-AA in 1985. There was really no BE football on the horizon at that time and Penn State's place in the conference probably doesn't change that scenario.

Exactly. Penn State would have joined the Big East for basketball and minor sports, along with Pittsburgh, in 1982 for this particular scenario but remained an independent in football. Villanova would not have been affected at all. They would have done the same things as in real life.

As for the Miami situation, the dynamic changes if Penn State joined the Big East in 1982. Miami was added so that at least half of the Big East football league consisted of full members - four - and to expand the basketball league to 10 members in an effort to fix scheduling issues.

Penn State being in the Big East since 1982 would have already created a 10-team basketball league, so the scheduling problems would not exist in this scenario, and the Nittany Lions also would have been the fourth full member with football, taking that issue off the table as well.

The Catholic basketball schools were never particularly enamored with Miami but they needed to pick a football school as the 10th member at that time. It came down to Miami, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, or Temple. The Hurricanes were just the least of five evils to take.

By having Penn State already in the Big East, Miami might not have even wished to join for basketball and minor sports if the league said we wanted them just for football. They could have simply placed those sports in a league like the American South, Sun Belt, or TAAC at the time.

With JoePa in and Nova fielding a 1-A football team at the time, he would naturally have pulled strings for his new "boys" and played them instead of Temple. That kind of ca$h flow would have only helped Nova keep the program afloat. He always would have invisioned making a football conference out of it anyway. Some of you guys even said a reason they didn't want PSU was because he would try to run things.

Miami saw they were in the position to do what was best for Miami. Remember late 80's Miami? They would have went to ACC/SEC/BE, whoever would give them full membership.

esayem Wrote:With JoePa in and Nova fielding a 1-A football team at the time, he would naturally have pulled strings for his new "boys" and played them instead of Temple. That kind of ca$h flow would have only helped Nova keep the program afloat. He always would have invisioned making a football conference out of it anyway. Some of you guys even said a reason they didn't want PSU was because he would try to run things.

Miami saw they were in the position to do what was best for Miami. Remember late 80's Miami? They would have went to ACC/SEC/BE, whoever would give them full membership.

Pay attention. If the Big East had admitted Penn State along with Pittsburgh in 1982, it would have been for basketball and minor sports, not for football.

Villanova would have dropped football and come back at the FCS level whether Penn State was playing basketball and minor sports in the Big East or not.

The Big East still would not have gotten around to playing football together until after 1990, long after Villanova was out of the picture, just as in real life.

As for Miami, the ACC did not want them in 1990, nor did the SEC. Their choice would have been to join the Big East for football only or stay independent.

I'd also point out that the only school in THAT BE (Pitt, SU, PSU, and BC) that had any games with Nova was BC. Pitt has played Nova 2X (1913 and 1998), PSU has never played them, SU 3X (53, 54, and 75). Although, the games with BC were annual between 1945-1980 and rotated between PA and Mass.

Nova played D1 football?

Villanova played Division I-A (now called FBS) football until dropping the team in 1982. The Wildcats revived the program a few years later but opted to do so at the Division I-AA (now called FCS) level because they desperately needed to save money on budget, facilities, scholarships, and everything else the sport requires. Just as Hoquista pointed out, Villanova had nearly no football relationships with Penn State or the original three Big East football teams, so some people need to stop trying to revise historical facts.

Hoquista Wrote:I'd also point out that the only school in THAT BE (Pitt, SU, PSU, and BC) that had any games with Nova was BC. Pitt has played Nova 2X (1913 and 1998), PSU has never played them, SU 3X (53, 54, and 75). Although, the games with BC were annual between 1945-1980 and rotated between PA and Mass.

I thought Villanova would have had more games. Even the Hoyas had more than that:

Boston College: 5-11-1
Pittsburgh: 0-2-1
Penn State: 0-1 (Joe Paterno's first game at PSU)
Syracuse: 2-1-1