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Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
army56mike Wrote:Nova played D1 football?

Yes, they did. I watch a Villanova and Holy Cross game in the 1960s, Holy Cross was 1A then, also. Mike, Villanova play at the old Cardinal Stadium before. 04-cheers
04-17-2008 08:24 PM
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SoCalPanther Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
DFW HOYA Wrote:
Hoquista Wrote:I'd also point out that the only school in THAT BE (Pitt, SU, PSU, and BC) that had any games with Nova was BC. Pitt has played Nova 2X (1913 and 1998), PSU has never played them, SU 3X (53, 54, and 75). Although, the games with BC were annual between 1945-1980 and rotated between PA and Mass.

I thought Villanova would have had more games. Even the Hoyas had more than that:

Boston College: 5-11-1
Pittsburgh: 0-2-1
Penn State: 0-1 (Joe Paterno's first game at PSU)
Syracuse: 2-1-1

If you want to expand this to the other possibilities of a BE FB conference at the time, WVu had 6 games against Nova (5 between '67 and '77 but all in Morgantown) and RU had 15 games but only 2 games ('78, '79 - like the others both were away games for Nova) between '70 and '90 when the BE FB may have formed.

Compare that to Temple's games against SU, Pitt, BC, PSU, RU, and WVu between 75-90 when a BE FB conference idea was being floated:

WVu - 11 games
SU - 11 games
RU - 14 games
Pitt - 16 games
PSU - 15 games
BC - 10 games (+ 1 bowl game in Japan)
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2008 04:09 AM by SoCalPanther.)
04-18-2008 04:08 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
Krocker Krapp Wrote:Villanova played Division I-A (now called FBS) football until dropping the team in 1982. The Wildcats revived the program a few years later but opted to do so at the Division I-AA (now called FCS) level because they desperately needed to save money on budget, facilities, scholarships, and everything else the sport requires. Just as Hoquista pointed out, Villanova had nearly no football relationships with Penn State or the original three Big East football teams, so some people need to stop trying to revise historical facts.

Me pay attention? Why don't you read my whole post first? Joe Pa would have had his all-sports (including football) conference in mind. Since he hypothetically would have been in a conference with everything but football, he would have in mind the building of an all-sports (including football) conference out of what was there. Get it? So he would have kept Nova in the loop since the Temple game would be a waste since the Owls were a long shot for BE admission ever since Nova was invited.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2008 12:12 PM by esayem.)
04-18-2008 12:11 PM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
esayem Wrote:Me pay attention? Why don't you read my whole post first? Joe Pa would have had his all-sports (including football) conference in mind. Since he hypothetically would have been in a conference with everything but football, he would have in mind the building of an all-sports (including football) conference out of what was there. Get it? So he would have kept Nova in the loop since the Temple game would be a waste since the Owls were a long shot for BE admission ever since Nova was invited.
Villanova no longer had the money to fund Division I-A football once the 1980s dawned. Period. Joe Paterno was not going to fund the Wildcats football program. If he cared so much about their program, he would have played them more than once ever, which was his first game at Penn State in the caveman era.

Why do you ignore the statistics people are clearly pointing out to you? Villanova dropped football because they could no longer afford what it takes to play in Division I-A. Period. Temple played all of the Big East schools much more often than the Wildcats could have ever dreamed of doing. Look at the numbers.

Even if Penn State had joined the Big East alongside Pittsburgh for all sports except football in 1982, Villanova dropped football in 1982, so their joining would have had no effect on them. Period. Joe Paterno would have been working towards an eventual football league but the Wildcats could not afford to be in it.
04-18-2008 03:05 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
Krocker Krapp Wrote:
esayem Wrote:Me pay attention? Why don't you read my whole post first? Joe Pa would have had his all-sports (including football) conference in mind. Since he hypothetically would have been in a conference with everything but football, he would have in mind the building of an all-sports (including football) conference out of what was there. Get it? So he would have kept Nova in the loop since the Temple game would be a waste since the Owls were a long shot for BE admission ever since Nova was invited.
Villanova no longer had the money to fund Division I-A football once the 1980s dawned. Period. Joe Paterno was not going to fund the Wildcats football program. If he cared so much about their program, he would have played them more than once ever, which was his first game at Penn State in the caveman era.

Why do you ignore the statistics people are clearly pointing out to you? Villanova dropped football because they could no longer afford what it takes to play in Division I-A. Period. Temple played all of the Big East schools much more often than the Wildcats could have ever dreamed of doing. Look at the numbers.

Even if Penn State had joined the Big East alongside Pittsburgh for all sports except football in 1982, Villanova dropped football in 1982, so their joining would have had no effect on them. Period. Joe Paterno would have been working towards an eventual football league but the Wildcats could not afford to be in it.

Dude, show me where I ignored statistics. I know all that s**t. I also know Villanova did not schedule big time schools. They no longer had money because they weren't making any. Make sense? It does say "what if" in the title of this thread. So what if JoePa arranges scheduling with his new conference mates to make everything easier? Bam! Syracuse, BC, Pitt, PSU, start to visit Villanova every other year. Im sure they could find a suitable venue in '82.
04-18-2008 04:25 PM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
esayem Wrote:Dude, show me where I ignored statistics. I know all that s**t. I also know Villanova did not schedule big time schools. They no longer had money because they weren't making any. Make sense? It does say "what if" in the title of this thread. So what if JoePa arranges scheduling with his new conference mates to make everything easier? Bam! Syracuse, BC, Pitt, PSU, start to visit Villanova every other year. Im sure they could find a suitable venue in '82.
The "what if" in the title of this thread is referring to what if Penn State had joined the Big East at the same time as Pittsburgh, which happened in 1982, for all sports except football.

It is not about what if Villanova had not dropped football in 1982. Furthermore, the Wildcats dropped football in 1982, and teams can't schedule games with opponents that do not exist.
04-18-2008 04:30 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
So it happened at the same time and Villanova prob didn't vote for PSU. Their bad, their fault they are obsolete.
04-19-2008 10:33 AM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
esayem Wrote:So it happened at the same time and Villanova prob didn't vote for PSU. Their bad, their fault they are obsolete.
Now you understand. Villanova knew their football situation at the time the Big East rejected Penn State. If they thought adding the Nittany Lions in exchange for guarantee games from Joe Paterno would save their program, they would have begged on their hands and knees for everyone to vote in Penn State, then they would have voted for the Nittany Lions themselves as well. That did not happen and the rest is history.
04-19-2008 11:45 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
Krocker Krapp Wrote:
esayem Wrote:So it happened at the same time and Villanova prob didn't vote for PSU. Their bad, their fault they are obsolete.
Now you understand. Villanova knew their football situation at the time the Big East rejected Penn State. If they thought adding the Nittany Lions in exchange for guarantee games from Joe Paterno would save their program, they would have begged on their hands and knees for everyone to vote in Penn State, then they would have voted for the Nittany Lions themselves as well. That did not happen and the rest is history.

There is a discrepancy in versions as to who were the three votes against Penn State. One version has it being Nova, St. John's, and Georgetown while the other has it being St. John's, Georgetown, and Seton Hall.

Knowing the circumstances of the time and the fact that Nova and Penn State were already in a conference together at one time, the version most often believed to be correct is the latter.

Cheers,
Neil
04-20-2008 12:30 AM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
omnicarrier Wrote:There is a discrepancy in versions as to who were the three votes against Penn State. One version has it being Nova, St. John's, and Georgetown while the other has it being St. John's, Georgetown, and Seton Hall.

Knowing the circumstances of the time and the fact that Nova and Penn State were already in a conference together at one time, the version most often believed to be correct is the latter.
I know that but my point to Sam was, if Villanova had really felt like adding Penn State was the only way to save their football program, then that administration should have been down on their hands and knees begging the other Catholic schools to please please please vote the Nittany Lions into the Big East no matter what. Since that did not happen, they either felt like doing so would not save their football program, or they were planning to drop it no matter what.
04-20-2008 12:40 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Big East fans...here is a "what if" for you
omnicarrier Wrote:
Krocker Krapp Wrote:
esayem Wrote:So it happened at the same time and Villanova prob didn't vote for PSU. Their bad, their fault they are obsolete.
Now you understand. Villanova knew their football situation at the time the Big East rejected Penn State. If they thought adding the Nittany Lions in exchange for guarantee games from Joe Paterno would save their program, they would have begged on their hands and knees for everyone to vote in Penn State, then they would have voted for the Nittany Lions themselves as well. That did not happen and the rest is history.

There is a discrepancy in versions as to who were the three votes against Penn State. One version has it being Nova, St. John's, and Georgetown while the other has it being St. John's, Georgetown, and Seton Hall.

Knowing the circumstances of the time and the fact that Nova and Penn State were already in a conference together at one time, the version most often believed to be correct is the latter.

Cheers,
Neil

DeFilippo has let his emotions show. Earlier this week, when asked if he would do anything differently, he paused, smiled, and shook his head. "You know, there was the old television show where people went back in time and changed things," he said. "I'd love to go back [to the early 1980s] and get Ted Aceto to change his vote on Penn State."

DeFilippo's reference was to the then-Villanova athletic director casting the deciding vote that kept Penn State out of the Big East. Had that vote been different, everything else might have changed, because the Big East would have had Penn State as an anchor, along with Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and Boston College, and the addition of Miami would have made the conference a solid East Coast factor.

04-cheers 05-stirthepot
04-20-2008 01:34 AM
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