A quick question, with no simple answer but I know, but it's a question that will be asked. After Memphis wins it all tonight does that make the Tiger program more appealing to the Big East as a ninth football playing member? Many fans here, like myself, believe the Tigers already belong in the Big East with UofL and UC. Does a NCAA championship get the ball rolling toward a Big East invite for the Tigers?
CJ

cardinal.. you are suffering from an old and hard treated disease.. premature invitation

In answer to your question... Who know? Trying to figure out what's in the minds of BEast presidents is like trying to swim in concrete.

Don't yell at me because I don't agree with it...but a very high ranking official with Syracuse said academics, size of conference and geography are major concerns about Memphis. Of course they were looking at the aspect of adding one to make 17.
Memphis does possess great fans who I think would blend well into the Big East...they are very knowledgeable and follow their teams. Memphis needs to get their stadium issue figured out. If the split happens and only one new team is added I still think Memphis will have a hard time beating out UCF...of course like other expansions it will go awry and ECU will be the compromise. LOL

TexanMark Wrote:Don't yell at me because I don't agree with it...but a very high ranking official with Syracuse said academics, size of conference and geography are major concerns about Memphis.

Not yelling Tex, but, gotta laugh, size of conference a concern?

Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick Wrote:

TexanMark Wrote:Don't yell at me because I don't agree with it...but a very high ranking official with Syracuse said academics, size of conference and geography are major concerns about Memphis.

Not yelling Tex, but, gotta laugh, size of conference a concern?

One of the morons who voted for this hybrid monstrosity thinks it could get too big? Imagine that.

Perhaps this article is relevant:

Thankfully, there is no BCS in college basketball
posted by Timbo Stephens on Apr 7, 2008 11:59:10 AM
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Tonight we will see something happen in college basketball that simply would not be possible in college football: A team from outside the Bowl Championship Series power conferences will play for the national championship.

For all the efforts to "BCSify" college hoops, a team like Memphis can prove -- on the court, on a neutral site, without "conference referees" -- that is is the best in the country. A team as mighty as Memphis or as supposedly lowly as Davidson can legitimately begin its season with national title aspirations. The limits of its achievement are influenced by point totals, not poll totals. And defined by productivity, not popularity.

Yet if Memphis defeats Kansas tonight, we can hear the howls now ...

The BCS apologists will attack Memphis' players. Thugs, they'll be called. They will attack Memphis' recruiting tactics. Must've cheated. Surely. They will attack Memphis' academic integrity, insinuating that players landed at Memphis because "bigger" schools wouldn't accept them. After all, who would really want to go to a non-BCS conference if other, better options existed. As if the Memphis basketball program is some sort of grocery store-brand soft drink while the SEC and ACC are Coke and Pepsi. John Walters of NBCSports.com has an insightful take on that, one that should cause all who make such snap judgments to pause.

This is not to say that the critics won't be right, but let's get real. Such holier-than-thou stones will be cast from inside mansions of glass.

College basketball teams prove each March that the labels don't really matter. Once can scream "B-C-S" all one wants or hide behind the cloak of "conference superiority" as much as one wants, but the truth gets exposed between the lines. What's great about the NCAA Tournament is that there is a place for the Davidsons or Butlers or, yes, Memphises. They can prove they belong in the conversation (that is, when the selection committee actually gives them a chance to do so) of national elite, no matter which talking heads try to downplay them. In the end, it's determined on the court.

If this were football, Memphis' greatest team in its history would've already finished up in the Liberty Bowl against an SEC also-ran. And it would have been excluded from the conversation of national championship before it put on the first pad in August. It never would have been allowed the opportunity to reach the level of its basketball counterpart, and it never could've recruited elite players the way the basketball program has done. Memphis basketball can recruit on par with Kansas or North Carolina because it has access to the championship. Memphis football (or any other non-BCS team) gets beaten over the head with that BCS label for players in its own backyard.

This isn't exactly new, of course, as college football has always been a caste system driven by dollars. What's new is the way some are pushing this mentality into basketball.

Memphis, the most well-armed David in history, can strike a mighty blow for all the non-BCSers tonight.

Of course, soon after, one could guess that the Big East might find a spot for the Tigers that didn't exist a couple of years ago when realignment occurred. If you can't beat them, just ask them to join you ...

Notice that not so subtle dig at The BEast? Imagine that. The new player, originally created to give Miami a seat in the BCS mix, is the root of all evil. I never would have guessed it.

CardinalJim Wrote:A quick question, with no simple answer but I know, but it's a question that will be asked. After Memphis wins it all tonight does that make the Tiger program more appealing to the Big East as a ninth football playing member? Many fans here, like myself, believe the Tigers already belong in the Big East with UofL and UC. Does a NCAA championship get the ball rolling toward a Big East invite for the Tigers?
CJ

No. Memphis's choice not to build an on campus football complex and remain in the LB hurt them much more then this final four helps them. Football powers can put cash into their bball programs and be successful. The process rarely works the other way around. I do however reserve the right to change my mind when/if Memphis shows a BCS-like commitment to football.

CardinalJim, would Memphis look as attractive to you if Calipary left to coach the Knicks a week from now?

To me...UCF, if they were willing, with the new football staduim and bball areana plus the size of the school and the geography/relationship with USF is a no brainer at this point for #9


Jackson

Jackson1011 Wrote:No. Memphis's choice not to build an on campus football complex and remain in the LB hurt them much more then this final four helps them. Football powers can put cash into their bball programs and be successful. The process rarely works the other way around. I do however reserve the right to change my mind when/if Memphis shows a BCS-like commitment to football.

That said, how does that explain all this board's recent groundswell for Temple?

Jackson1011 Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:A quick question, with no simple answer but I know, but it's a question that will be asked. After Memphis wins it all tonight does that make the Tiger program more appealing to the Big East as a ninth football playing member? Many fans here, like myself, believe the Tigers already belong in the Big East with UofL and UC. Does a NCAA championship get the ball rolling toward a Big East invite for the Tigers?
CJ

No. Memphis's choice not to build an on campus football complex and remain in the LB hurt them much more then this final four helps them. Football powers can put cash into their bball programs and be successful. The process rarely works the other way around. I do however reserve the right to change my mind when/if Memphis shows a BCS-like commitment to football.

The official decision was that the on-campus stadium is feasible and should be done, but with the economy in it's current state (loans hard to come by), the time is not right. The stadium considered was to cost about $123 million and prudent estimates showed that we can only fund about $100 million at this point in time. With the additional $9 or $10 million a year which we would receive from Big East membership and an on-campus stadium being made a prerequisite, you would see the OCS built in a New York minute.

No matter, my guess is that a championship-calibre basketball program, bringing the Liberty Bowl, a football program which has played in bowls 4 of the last 5 years and an academic commitment to be recognized as one of the nation's premiere metropolitan research universities by 2012 just isn't good enough in some people's minds.

Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:No. Memphis's choice not to build an on campus football complex and remain in the LB hurt them much more then this final four helps them. Football powers can put cash into their bball programs and be successful. The process rarely works the other way around. I do however reserve the right to change my mind when/if Memphis shows a BCS-like commitment to football.

That said, how does that explain all this board's recent groundswell for Temple?

Two reasons IMO...

A) Eastern PA/Philly recruiting is vital to many of our schools because of the amount of football and especially basketball talent that comes out of the region. Some fear that without a presence in Phillly much of that talent goes to the ACC or the All Catholic BE. It would be a lot to ask of Rutgers to cover NYC and Philly for the new league when/if it comes about

B) It makes very good travel sense...Memphis would be a flight to a new location without a travel partner in mind...one could play Rutgers and Temple in one swing much like you can play Pitt and WVU or UC and UL now

Quote:No matter, my guess is that a championship-calibre basketball program, bringing the Liberty Bowl, a football program which has played in bowls 4 of the last 5 years and an academic commitment to be recognized as one of the nation's premiere metropolitan research universities by 2012 just isn't good enough in some people's minds.

-- I am not trying to bash Tiger athletics. Certainly UM fans have a lot to be proud of. However, our current league isn't going to expand due to basketball strenght. We already have plenty of that. UM football is the key. I know you like to highlight the bowl apperances but all of those were minor bowls when UM enjoyed having one of the best players in college football. UMs football history is very lean and the progress since the DeAngelo era can only be described as moving backwards....again JMO

Jackson

Here is the thing, the footbal schools hold ALL the power in this issue. If they wanted to ensure a balanced schedule, less difficulty scheduling OOC, and better bowls, all they would have to do is demand Memphis or else split. The last thing the basketball only schools want is a split. They would be lost without the eight football schools. To keep the conference together and strengthen it at the same time they must vote to add Memphis as the 17th member. It's that or lose all the football schools, who would in turn start their own 9 team conference that would be better anyway. Either way, it's a winning situation for the football side.

I personally like the teams in the Big East. But, I don't think we will see Memphis in the conference.

army56mike Wrote:Here is the thing, the footbal schools hold ALL the power in this issue. If they wanted to ensure a balanced schedule, less difficulty scheduling OOC, and better bowls, all they would have to do is demand Memphis or else split. The last thing the basketball only schools want is a split. They would be lost without the eight football schools. To keep the conference together and strengthen it at the same time they must vote to add Memphis as the 17th member. It's that or lose all the football schools, who would in turn start their own 9 team conference that would be better anyway. Either way, it's a winning situation for the football side.

Agree

army56mike Wrote:Here is the thing, the footbal schools hold ALL the power in this issue. If they wanted to ensure a balanced schedule, less difficulty scheduling OOC, and better bowls, all they would have to do is demand Memphis or else split. The last thing the basketball only schools want is a split. They would be lost without the eight football schools. To keep the conference together and strengthen it at the same time they must vote to add Memphis as the 17th member. It's that or lose all the football schools, who would in turn start their own 9 team conference that would be better anyway. Either way, it's a winning situation for the football side.

But who says all the football schools are going to vote to add memphis? Memphis is a far better Bball school then they are at football. Does the BE really need to add a football school that is lacking in that department? Unless Memphis shows some signs of improvement I would assume others like UCF or ECU have the advantage because like you said the football schools hold all the power.

UltimateCFBfan Wrote:

army56mike Wrote:Here is the thing, the footbal schools hold ALL the power in this issue. If they wanted to ensure a balanced schedule, less difficulty scheduling OOC, and better bowls, all they would have to do is demand Memphis or else split. The last thing the basketball only schools want is a split. They would be lost without the eight football schools. To keep the conference together and strengthen it at the same time they must vote to add Memphis as the 17th member. It's that or lose all the football schools, who would in turn start their own 9 team conference that would be better anyway. Either way, it's a winning situation for the football side.

But who says all the football schools are going to vote to add memphis? Memphis is a far better Bball school then they are at football. Does the BE really need to add a football school that is lacking in that department? Unless Memphis shows some signs of improvement I would assume others like UCF or ECU have the advantage because like you said the football schools hold all the power.

Remember, Big East is trying to get to 8 conference football games per year...so any new member(s) would obviously bring that which would eliminate one of the 5 non-conf games B.E. teams have to play today.

I don't think "on the field" football performance of a new conf candidate is that important for other B.E. Football programs as while getting to 8 conf games is the goal...not adding a LOSS to one's schedule is ALSO the goal of all the football programs.

Replacing a Div I-AA Football Game or one vs a team from the MAC with Memphis...might look more appealing for some Big East Coaches...vs say maybe playing maybe slightly better football programs in ECU or UCF.

I think off-the-field variables (i.e. football revenue streams, facilities, tv markets, attendance, recruiting area for other Big East Teams, etc...) will play a larger role than just "on-the-field" performance.

army56mike Wrote:Here is the thing, the footbal schools hold ALL the power in this issue. If they wanted to ensure a balanced schedule, less difficulty scheduling OOC, and better bowls, all they would have to do is demand Memphis or else split. The last thing the basketball only schools want is a split. They would be lost without the eight football schools. To keep the conference together and strengthen it at the same time they must vote to add Memphis as the 17th member. It's that or lose all the football schools, who would in turn start their own 9 team conference that would be better anyway. Either way, it's a winning situation for the football side.

While Memphis has its merits, so do many other schools, if you want to look at this from a business and recruiting standpoint. I'll look at a few points of interest for several potential candidates (not all, so don't get bent)...

Boston College (for the sake of argument ... dissatisfaction with the ACC brings back tradition foe)Will it bring them back... Who knows?

Central Florida (leaves CUSA to join The BEast)Flip a coin as to who's the better choice between UCF, ECU, Memphis, USM in CUSA...

East Carolina (leaves CUSA to join The BEast)Flip a coin...

Memphis (leaves CUSA to join The BEast)Flip a coin...

Maryland (for the sake of argument ... dissatisfaction with the ACC brings back tradition foe)It's a nice dream, ain't it?

Penn State (for the sake of argument ... desire to return to eastern dominance brings back tradition foe)NOTE: Fan interest is no problem for Penn State. Neither is boo$ter $upport, really. But a little help couldn't hurt. :ncaabbs:

Another nice dream, ain't it?

Southern Mississippi (leaves CUSA to join The BEast)Flip a coin...

Temple (much as I'd like to ignore 'em)
Philadelphia

That's all I'm going to say about Temple

There you have it, in a nutshell. There are other merits. But that is the main issue here... TV exposure and market. It will be a business decision. But the criteria to be used in the selection process are still open for discussion it seems.

Who knows what crteria the decision will be based upon?

Jackson1011 Wrote:UM football is the key. I know you like to highlight the bowl apperances but all of those were minor bowls when UM enjoyed having one of the best players in college football. UMs football history is very lean and the progress since the DeAngelo era can only be described as moving backwards....again JMO
Jackson

Pretty tough to make a "major" bowl when you are essentially locked out of them. We went to a bowl last season WITHOUT DeAngelo Williams. Easy to knock Tiger football when you don't have to line up against us - ask Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Tennessee and USC, to name a few. You might also ask Louisville and Cincy, who we played many times.

Gray Avenger Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:UM football is the key. I know you like to highlight the bowl apperances but all of those were minor bowls when UM enjoyed having one of the best players in college football. UMs football history is very lean and the progress since the DeAngelo era can only be described as moving backwards....again JMO

Pretty tough to make a "major" bowl when you are essentially locked out of them. We went to a bowl last season WITHOUT DeAngelo Williams. Easy to knock Tiger football when you don't have to line up against us - ask Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Tennessee and USC, to name a few. You might also ask Louisville and Cincy, who we played many times.

I'll agree with you there. I've never liked bowl alignments. I think locking certain conferences and teams into bowl games, the BCS, and all the tradition that goes with it, is just setup to make sure that those at the top are only challenged through monumental effort and luck. It is that very basis that prevents a true national champion from being crowned. Those in charge of setting up the determination of a national champion have a vested interest in keeping it the way it is.