Gone-zalez

Maybe it's time for the league to do the same to the deadwood in it - Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul.

Oh, that's right. It's okay for schools to do this type of thing to coaches but it isn't okay for conferences to do it to member institutions.

Cheers,
Neil

SH is screwed. Nobody should want to coach there. Didn't Orr make the tourney and get fired?

esayem Wrote:SH is screwed. Nobody should want to coach there. Didn't Orr make the tourney and get fired?

That is correct. And they kicked our azz, pretty much eliminating us, on the way. Nice reward for getting to the big dance.

BTW, congrats to your Heels on a great season... just ran into a buzzsaw last night.

omnicarrier Wrote:Maybe it's time for the league to do the same to the deadwood in it - Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul. Oh, that's right. It's okay for schools to do this type of thing to coaches but it isn't okay for conferences to do it to member institutions.

For all the talk about deadwood, don't ignore the two teams still below them in the standings.

DFW HOYA Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:Maybe it's time for the league to do the same to the deadwood in it - Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul. Oh, that's right. It's okay for schools to do this type of thing to coaches but it isn't okay for conferences to do it to member institutions.

For all the talk about deadwood, don't ignore the two teams still below them in the standings.

If I didn't know you better DFW, I would be incline to stereotype and say that it is typical of a bb school fan to only think from a bb perspective. There are other sports besides bb.

If Georgetown fell on hard times again, at least they have an opportunity to contribute to the league's image in men's (assuming the rumored league comes about) and women's lacrosse. And they help bring in the DC market.

Just as those two teams you mention beneath them contribute in other meaningful ways such as football and baseball in USF's case and football and women's bb in Rutgers' case. Even St. John's, who is horrid in bb right now, contributes in baseball and soccer. Not to mention, each helps bring a significant market to the league.

The plain truth of the matter is that none of the other three have the money or resources to contribute to the league's image significantly and only DePaul offers a market of any value - a market that will truly always be Big Ten country anyway.

In other words, they are the true leeches of this league. Georgetown, Nova, St. John's, and even Marquette are contributing. Seton Hall (with the exception of one lone NCAA credit) and Providence simply are not.

I suppose a case could be made for DePaul, but they are the next weakest leak in the chain.

Cheers,
Neil

DFW HOYA Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:Maybe it's time for the league to do the same to the deadwood in it - Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul. Oh, that's right. It's okay for schools to do this type of thing to coaches but it isn't okay for conferences to do it to member institutions.

For all the talk about deadwood, don't ignore the two teams still below them in the standings.

You mean the two schools that finished in the Final BCS Top 25 in 2006-(for Rutgers and Bowl Winner) and USF in 2007-(who also got up to 2nd in the BCS Standings in 2007).

maize Wrote:You mean the two schools that finished in the Final BCS Top 25 in 2006-(for Rutgers and Bowl Winner) and USF in 2007-(who also got up to 2nd in the BCS Standings in 2007).

And that's the point--you don't judge deadwood by one sport but by many. If football was the only metric, Syracuse would be in trouble for some of you.

DePaul is an improving athletic program, and Seton Hall, like Rutgers, can get very good very quickly in sports if the right coachces are there.

Providence? Well, they have other issues, unfortunately.

DFW HOYA Wrote:

maize Wrote:You mean the two schools that finished in the Final BCS Top 25 in 2006-(for Rutgers and Bowl Winner) and USF in 2007-(who also got up to 2nd in the BCS Standings in 2007).

And that's the point--you don't judge deadwood by one sport but by many. If football was the only metric, Syracuse would be in trouble for some of you.

DePaul is an improving athletic program, and Seton Hall, like Rutgers, can get very good very quickly in sports if the right coachces are there.

Providence? Well, they have other issues, unfortunately.

You're missing the point. Football is what is driving college athletics right now. Syracuse WOULD NOT be in trouble for any of us. Why? Because Syracuse has tradition, a national name, and good attendance. Apples and oranges.

DFW
The reality is that there are ONLY TWO BIG revenue producing sports in college. FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL. So either you produce in one of them or you are deadwood. In the case of the nonfootbll members thats a ONE shot deal. So if you dont produce there then you are deadwood because you arent producing for the league. USF and Rutgers are producing in basketball, what are those others doing? and are they EVER going to produce?

Is harsh but it is reality if you are a small school, with no football team then you must produce in basketball. Is nice to win in lacrosse,baseball etc but those do not bring in money to the league.

Seton Hall is the only one that worries me as of right now (I don't know anything one way or the other about Providence). If you look at the Director's Cup standings, you'll find Seton Hall's postseason appearences over the past 3 years in ALL sports includes Men's Soccer and Men's Basketball, both in 2005-2006. That's it. That does not include spring of this year, however, it doesn't look like that will change anything.

It is one thing to have a bad year across the board or to have some of your major sports have a downturn for a few years. But when you have 2 postseason appearences across ALL sports over 3 years, you have a serious problem. If that trend doesn't change, then maybe Seton Hall should consider moving to the A-10. It would be better for the conference and for Seton Hall for the Pirates to go to a conference where they can compete if they keep struggling like this.

Cubanbull Wrote:DFW
The reality is that there are ONLY TWO BIG revenue producing sports in college. FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL. So either you produce in one of them or you are deadwood. In the case of the nonfootbll members thats a ONE shot deal. So if you dont produce there then you are deadwood because you arent producing for the league. USF and Rutgers are producing in basketball, what are those others doing? and are they EVER going to produce?

Is harsh but it is reality if you are a small school, with no football team then you must produce in basketball. Is nice to win in lacrosse,baseball etc but those do not bring in money to the league.

Actually, as a BCS conference, I think you need to look at all team sports, not just football and basketball. Especially in light of an age where conference networks might soon be the norm.

And, in fairness to them, Seton Hall and Providence have both contributed to the history of the league. But let's call it like it is. Neither is likely to contribute to the league significantly again when they continue to manage their athletics program like a mid-major instead of like being a major.

It's time they, themselves, recognize this and either step up to the plate or step down to the status they are already functioning at.

Just my humble opinion.

Cheers,
Neil

Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick Wrote:

esayem Wrote:SH is screwed. Nobody should want to coach there. Didn't Orr make the tourney and get fired?

That is correct. And they kicked our azz, pretty much eliminating us, on the way. Nice reward for getting to the big dance.

BTW, congrats to your Heels on a great season... just ran into a buzzsaw last night.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

omnicarrier Wrote:

Cubanbull Wrote:DFW
The reality is that there are ONLY TWO BIG revenue producing sports in college. FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL. So either you produce in one of them or you are deadwood. In the case of the nonfootbll members thats a ONE shot deal. So if you dont produce there then you are deadwood because you arent producing for the league. USF and Rutgers are producing in basketball, what are those others doing? and are they EVER going to produce?

Is harsh but it is reality if you are a small school, with no football team then you must produce in basketball. Is nice to win in lacrosse,baseball etc but those do not bring in money to the league.

Actually, as a BCS conference, I think you need to look at all team sports, not just football and basketball. Especially in light of an age where conference networks might soon be the norm.

And, in fairness to them, Seton Hall and Providence have both contributed to the history of the league. But let's call it like it is. Neither is likely to contribute to the league significantly again when they continue to manage their athletics program like a mid-major instead of like being a major.

It's time they, themselves, recognize this and either step up to the plate or step down to the status they are already functioning at.

Just my humble opinion.

Cheers,
Neil

Which sport(s) bring in the most $$$$$ by far in any TV Contract?

Football...and Basketball.

Having a nice women's Field Hockey team that can be filler for a Conf TV Channel at 2 AM is nice...but that doesn't pay the bills.

As someone above noted, in todays world of BIG TIME TV Contracts (plus revenue producing attendance), only Football and Basketball matter...so if you are a non-football member...you basically get ONE SHOT (i.e. one sport, Baksetball...using Big East example) to help the conference produce REVENUE and if your Basketball program is NOT succeeding/producing...that is one giant strike against that said program.

History, tradition, etc...is a great thing to have, enjoy and never have it taken away from you as a fan...sadly though, collegiate athletics is a BIG BUSINESS today and as a business...they only care about the bottom line.

As Neil pointed out at the end...those basketball only schools either step up or step out.

Question to ponder: What "if" the Big East Offices were moved from Providence to NYC (i.e. to help start up their own Big East Sports Channel, HQ in NYC)....how long would Providence still be a member of the Big East?

Delete Seton Hall add Memphis or UCF--lots of problems fixed.

Forget talk about St. John's and how they bring in the NYC market. The BEast would have the NYC market with Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers alone. We don't need St. John's to capture that market.

St. John's is irrelevant sports-wise, and NYC knows it.

TexanMark Wrote:Delete Seton Hall add Memphis or UCF--lots of problems fixed.

Delete SHU and PC, and add them both. LOTS MORE fixed

Embattled Seton Hall coach Gonzalez draws support from university president
By TOM CANAVAN, AP Sports Writer
Apr 7, 10:29 pm EDT

SOUTH ORANGE, N.J. (AP)—The president of Seton Hall gave Bobby Gonzalez a vote of confidence Monday amid reports the university was considering taking action against the basketball coach for a late-season blowup against Rutgers.

“Bobby Gonzalez is Seton Hall’s coach and will continue to be our coach as we move ahead,” Monsignor Robert Sheeran said in an extraordinary statement issued late in the day.

“I can assure you all that coach Gonzalez will continue to strengthen our men’s basketball program and will be successful in all those areas that matter to the university, the student-athletes and the fans,” the school president said. “He has the full support of my administration in doing this.”

Sheeran said he was committed to both Gonzalez and athletic director Joe Quinlan in their efforts to rebuild the school’s men’s basketball program.

The New York Post reported Monday night that the university’s board of regents might recommend Gonzalez be fired when it met this week.

Gonzalez was suspended by the university for next season’s first Big East Conference game for criticizing the officiating after a loss to Rutgers in the regular-season finale.

At the time, Quinlan called Gonzalez’s conduct on March 9 “unacceptable” and “not representative” of Seton Hall sports. The school said he failed to comply with university and conference policies.

Gonzalez has not commented on the suspension.

The fiery coach led the Pirates to a 17-15 mark in his second season at the South Orange school. Seton Hall lost in the first round of the conference tournament to Marquette 67-54. The Pirates were 13-16 in Gonzalez’s first season.

Seton Hall was offered an invitation to play in the inaugural College Basketball Invitational Tournament on Sunday, but the school turned it down.

Gonzalez, who seemingly has been at odds with Quinlan at times during his short tenure, got himself into trouble both during and after the Rutgers’ game, which the Scarlet Knights won 64-61 on a last-second 3-pointer by JR Inman.

Gonzalez was called for a technical foul by official Wally Rutecki with 7:25 to play after jumping out of his seat to argue a traveling violation with the Pirates down a point.

After the game ended, Gonzalez ran on the court to demand that Rutecki and fellow officials Jim Burr and John Cahill review Inman’s game-winning shot to make sure it was before the buzzer.

A Seton Hall associate athletic director ran on the court to hold Gonzalez back.

The replay clearly showed the shot was good.

After the game, Gonzalez criticized Rutecki.

This article appeared on the Yahoo Sports website on Monday, April 7, 2008.

The issue at hand is that SH and PC are original Big East members remember the Big East was created as a BB league. SU,G'towm, Uconn,Pitt, and Nova have all stayed at a high level so was St. Johns unitl Mike Jarvis. PC really should use some of that Big East revenue they get to a quality coach and Seton Hall well seton Hall is screwed I stop caring about the Pirates when they fired Louis Orr right after he got them to the NCAA tourny. Syracuse and coach Beohiem pulled some strings to get Orr the SH job and he got them to the tourny only to be fired, Seton Hall is in trouble.