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Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #1
Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
To recap:
- Some f***ing idiot thought It'd be a good idea to have the ACC Championship game in Jacksonville, which might as well be suburbs of Athens and Gainesville. Attendance was expectedly terrible.
- To correct the above mistake, they moved the game to Tampa for two years, which is EVEN FURTHER away for most people, and a resident Big East school is still dwarfed by SEC fan support.
- NCAA tournament bids have been lower than what they were as a 9-team league.
- BC, VT, Miami have collectively done NOT A DAMN THING on the national level IN ANY SPORT.
- The Round Robin is gone.
- Rivalries like FSU-GT and some tobacco road combinations are now not yearly in football.
- BC has terrible fan support, and is so far north it destroys the geography of the league.
- The bowls are *absolutely effing terrible*!!!! We added 3 teams, and to compensate added one mediocre bowl. ACC has NO business playing in the Emerald Bowl ... ever. It's on a fackin baseball field. It's always a pseudo-home game for the Pac-10 team. At least the Smurf Turf game is on an actual football field. ACC needs another decent or better east coast bowl.


Why not:
- Just have added Miami or VT and have a 10 team league?
- Drop BC. Even UCF would be a better choice.
- Fire Swofford, that idiot responsible, who has also shafted GT even more than the ACC refs in basketball.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2008 11:01 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
04-05-2008 10:41 PM
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tarheelsben1 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
Oh how I miss the days of a home and home with everyone in basketball and playing everyone in football...

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04-06-2008 03:41 PM
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copycat Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
-Thankfully Charlotte is on the horizon for the ACC Championship game, where it should be and make it permanently, like the way the SEC does it in Atlanta (and unlike the Big12 which moves it around).
-The ACC hasn't been that good in the basketball game since expansion. The other three teams aren't really at fault here though. Hell, VT has been better since. I'm thinking the committee is biased towards the big east/big ten anyway.
-All three expansion schools have been ranked in the top 3 at some point since expansion, but all have choked it away (BC at 2 before losing to FSU last year, VT at #3 going into the bowl game last year, Miami at #3 in 2005 before the magnificent upset by GT at home late). Then again, what have the other ACC teams done in the meantime? NOTHING!
-BC has a television market, that's why they were brought in. I don't know if I agree with that or not though.
-Supposedly this year there will be a bowl game in Washington DC called the Congressional Bowl, pitting a service academy (if available) against an opponent from the ACC. It has not received approval from the NCAA yet (sometime this month that should happen) but does have the ACC signed to it, and maybe that will replace San Francisco as a bowl game. I do *not* like football games played in baseball stadiums either, so I hope the ACC just drops it.

One thing I'd like to see is conference realignment. I don't like the way it was split, it should be geographical like the way the SEC and Big12 did it.
04-06-2008 04:39 PM
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Laettners Legacy Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
Dont blame us, Duke and UNC voted "no" to expansion
04-06-2008 07:39 PM
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David Krysakowski Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
ACC Expansion was a failure because they added Boston College instead of West Virginia.

If they would have added West Virginia they could have had a more competitive league.

Football
Northern Division
Duke
Maryland
North Carolina
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Southern Division
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina State
Wake Forest

Basketball & Baseball
Northern Division
Maryland
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Central Division
Duke
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Wake Forest

Southern Division
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2008 07:03 PM by David Krysakowski.)
04-07-2008 07:02 PM
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People Champion Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
The ACC will be fine, the only mistake they made was putting the Conference Championship Game in Jacksonville, which is a PRO SEC City. Once FSU and UM recover, all that talk will go away. The BE will take UM,VT, and BC back in a NY minute. I think the conference championship game should be rotated between Orlando and Charlotte.

Our recruiting has picked backed up over the past two years. Also we have made some nice coaching changes as well. Plus we play better OOC opponents do not pad our win totals against creampuffs like some conferences do.
(This post was last modified: 04-08-2008 04:15 PM by People Champion.)
04-08-2008 04:09 PM
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catdaddy_2402 Offline
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Post: #7
Rolleyes RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
David Krysakowski Wrote:ACC Expansion was a failure because they added Boston College instead of West Virginia.

If they would have added West Virginia they could have had a more competitive league.

Quite possibly the dumbest post ever.

West Virginia would have had ZERO support from ACC schools for two huge reasons:
1. They are in a non-existent TV market.
2. Their academics. You think UNC and Duke were upset about the expansion candidates we ended up with they would have likely taken up arms over WVU.

But I'll play along with your outlandish scheme to make a point.
Quote:Football
Northern Division
Duke
Maryland
North Carolina
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Southern Division
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina State
Wake Forest

Basketball & Baseball
Northern Division
Maryland
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Central Division
Duke
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Wake Forest

Southern Division
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
No way in Hades either alignment would have been made. The football alignment puts 4 out of the 6 schools that put a priority in football in the Southern Division.

There is no need for divisions in basketball, although I'd be really happy with Clemson being in the Southern Division as out of the three it's by far going to be the easiest to win. NC State and Wake would be having kittens having to go through both of the 800lb gorillas just to win the division every year.
04-08-2008 10:29 PM
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raptorcox Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
I agree.. one sign that is not encouraging is the lack of ACC teams in the NCAA Tourney. Committee made a HUGE mistake putting too many SEC teams in, but did a favorable job trying to please most teams. VaTech needed to be in the tourney, but expansion likely is the real culprit why VaTech's bubble burst.
04-11-2008 07:11 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
David Krysakowski Wrote:ACC Expansion was a failure because they added Boston College instead of West Virginia.

West Virginia doesn't have the academics for the ACC. The worst ACC school academically is on par with the BEST in the SEC and Big East.
04-11-2008 08:52 AM
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tarheelsben1 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
I guess the one thing expansion has brought us, is a hockey championship
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04-13-2008 09:50 AM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
I will reiterate again that the ACC needs to change its football divisions to a traditional North/South model and stop trying to force Florida State vs. Miami in hopes of getting a title game sellout. It has not happened so far and, quite obviously, will not become an annual occurance anytime in the near future. To prevent losing old rivalries, each team should have two permanent rivals from the opposite division, and then just slowly rotate the other four foes from the opposite division. Put the title game in Charlotte where it would generate the biggest turnout and most loyal support.

EXAMPLE ACC NORTH
  • BC / Maryland
    Virginia Tech / Virginia
    North Carolina / Duke
EXAMPLE ACC SOUTH
  • Wake Forest / North Carolina State
    Clemson / Georgia Tech
    Florida State / Miami
Eventually it will also become clear that there is no reason for Boston College to remain in the ACC. Temple would provide just as big of a market, get the ACC a foothold in the Northeast as they wish, and is actually located in an adjoining state. Boston College must eventually realize they need to get back together with the Big East football schools in a league based in the Northeast. Whether they are intelligent enough to admit their mistake, or stubborn enough to never undo their mistake, is a totally different matter but the ACC would be better with North/South divisions.
04-14-2008 11:20 PM
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OUBOBCATJOHN Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
I could see the ACC making a move to add Syracuse, Connecticut, Rutgers and Pitt to the conference for 16 team all sports league. That would force the Big East to add Memphis, East Carolina, Central Florida and Southern Miss. CUSA would then add Troy, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee and La Tech
04-15-2008 12:33 AM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
The fall of the ACC
Tourney woes reflect big problems for league
David Steele | March 24, 2008

Think Duke is off its game in recent years? It's not alone. Its entire conference is not feeling the Madness these days, either.

Feeling mad, yes, because for the second time in three years, the NCAA tournament began with the hallowed Atlantic Coast Conference carrying a chip on its shoulder, beefing about being disrespected, griping that it's under-represented in the 65-team field. And, once again, most of its smaller-than-usual contingent are leaving without getting their dance cards punched.

Faces, yes. Cards, no.

Four went in. Three went out on consecutive days in the first weekend. Two went down to lower-seeded teams from a certain rival mega-conference.

Miami, of all teams, came off looking best, with a solid first-round win and a nail-biter of a loss to Texas yesterday. Miami. One of the football schools. More on that later.

Meanwhile, one of the exiled three, aforementioned Duke, went out with its ears burning.

"Duke's a great team. I think they'd fit in well in the Big East," West Virginia's Joe Alexander said after his team skunked the No. 2 seed Blue Devils in the second round Saturday in Washington. "But they definitely wouldn't dominate the Big East. We had a lot of great teams. I think the top six or seven teams are definitely right on par with Duke in the Big East, and the rest of them are right up there, too."

We pause here to remind the readers that this came from the Big East's fifth-place team and the second-lowest seed of the conference's eight entrants.

Oh, and that in the first round, the Big East team lower than it -- bubble team and No. 12 seed Villanova -- booted No. 5 seed Clemson, the third-place finisher in the ACC regular season and conference tournament finalist.

Yikes.

Of course, Alexander spoke prematurely -- almost as soon as his mouth closed, Big East teams started falling. Four bit the dust within the next 24 hours, including Georgetown.

The Hoyas' collapse probably wiped out a good two-thirds of America's brackets. Then again, that does prove his point about Duke and the Big East.

That's a separate issue from the ACC's artificially high impression of itself, though. It's still a painful fact that the ACC has the same number of teams alive as the Southern Conference (welcome, Davidson).

The ACC wasn't as good as advertised. It's not as good as it used to be, even just a few years ago.

Lately, it has been the Colonial Athletic Association with a better television deal. (Oooh, that's cold -- until you remember which league has reached the Final Four most recently.) Just shouting, "We're the ACC!" every March doesn't cut it anymore.

Or, as one West Virginia fan across from the scorer's table sang in the final minutes of the Duke game: "O-ver-ra-ted!"

Figuring out what went wrong would help -- and though it's hard to draw a straight line from one to another, one can say this much: Before it made its money/power grab in 2005 and raided the Big East for its football heavyweights, it was the conference we've always known. Since then, the numbers don't lie.

Before the expanded league went into action in 2005-06, the ACC had won three of the previous five national titles and had earned three other Final Four berths in that span.

Same old dominance, different era. In the last pre-expansion season, six teams got in the field, three made the Sweet 16 and North Carolina won it all.

In the next two seasons? No Final Four teams. Just three reaching the Sweet 16.

Throughout this season, the ACC was ranked the best in the country, and its coaches used that to proclaim that their own mediocre records should be graded on some kind of curve.

If you had listened to them -- and Seth "Certifiably Insane" Greenberg, we're talking to you -- and chosen not to believe your eyes, you wouldn't have noticed that the ACC was top-heavy this season with nothing close to the depth of the Big East, Pacific-10 or even the Big 12.

The selection committee believed its own eyes, although it still had a blind spot for Duke, grandfathering it into a No. 2 seed. But not for Greenberg's Virginia Tech team, the only serious bubble team once Maryland jumped off.

As for the ones who made it? Scoreboard.

So now, who can deny today that the ACC -- in the number of invitations and in the "progress" it made through this field -- got just what it deserved?

This article appeared in the Baltimore Sun on Monday, March 24, 2008.
04-15-2008 12:45 PM
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ecuacc4ever Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
Has ACC expansion be a failure..? Really? I don't believe it has.

I mean, we're sitting here bemoaning the fact that we only got 4 teams in the 'dance' this year. Who's to say that wouldn't have happened if the ACC were at 9 teams...?

The schools have to schedule (and perform) better out-of-conference. That's why Virginia Tech was left out (just like Syracuse back in '07).

=====

The biggest glaring mistake the league made was placing the football championship game in Jacksonville. IMHO, the football championship game belongs in one of three places:

1) Charlotte
2) Washington, D.C.
3) Baltimore

If there's going to be an occasional bone tossed to the state of Florida, it should be in Miami.

=====

As for the alignment in football, it's fine just the way it is. A North/South conference alignment is just asking for trouble in the form of a conference split. It's WAY easier to visualize a split with a N/S setup, than it is now.

You put Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, and Florida State in the same division and they'll be sending out feelers to SEC members within 10 years.

=====

NO to West Virginia. If any schools are to be added, the list starts with UConn.

=====

We need to give BC a chance before we write them off as a failure. I think their addition has been a great one and they've represented the league in a proud fashion.

It's the old-guard that needs to step up.

=====

Did someone actually mention Central Fredo as an ACC member...? 03-lmfao
04-15-2008 02:23 PM
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aTxTIGER Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
David Krysakowski Wrote:ACC Expansion was a failure because they added Boston College instead of West Virginia.

West Virginia doesn't have the academics for the ACC. The worst ACC school academically is on par with the BEST in the SEC and Big East.

i think vandy, notre dame, rutgers, pitt, florida, and syracuse might have a beef with that overgeneralization
04-16-2008 06:56 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
aTxTIGER Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
David Krysakowski Wrote:ACC Expansion was a failure because they added Boston College instead of West Virginia.

West Virginia doesn't have the academics for the ACC. The worst ACC school academically is on par with the BEST in the SEC and Big East.

i think vandy, notre dame, rutgers, pitt, florida, and syracuse might have a beef with that overgeneralization

The worst in the ACC is Florida State at 119. The SEC starts at 114 with South Carolina and drops rapidly from there. All those you listed (with possible exceptions for Cuse and ND) fall into the bottom 1/3 of the ACC IIRC.
04-16-2008 07:09 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:I could see the ACC making a move to add Syracuse, Connecticut, Rutgers and Pitt to the conference for 16 team all sports league. That would force the Big East to add Memphis, East Carolina, Central Florida and Southern Miss. CUSA would then add Troy, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee and La Tech
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04-17-2008 08:03 AM
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catdaddy_2402 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
Quote:You put Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, and Florida State in the same division and they'll be sending out feelers to SEC members within 10 years.
Maybe not putting out SEC feelers...but you do go right back where you started by not optimizing the conference for the sport that pays the bills these days...football. I can assure you that if the ACC were stupid enough to do something like that Clemson would be looking for a new home because it's going to protect it's bell cow sport.
04-17-2008 02:39 PM
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PirateMarv Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
catdaddy_2402 Wrote:
David Krysakowski Wrote:ACC Expansion was a failure because they added Boston College instead of West Virginia.

If they would have added West Virginia they could have had a more competitive league.

Quite possibly the dumbest post ever.

West Virginia would have had ZERO support from ACC schools for two huge reasons:
1. They are in a non-existent TV market.
2. Their academics. You think UNC and Duke were upset about the expansion candidates we ended up with they would have likely taken up arms over WVU.

But I'll play along with your outlandish scheme to make a point.
Quote:Football
Northern Division
Duke
Maryland
North Carolina
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Southern Division
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina State
Wake Forest

Basketball & Baseball
Northern Division
Maryland
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Central Division
Duke
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Wake Forest

Southern Division
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
No way in Hades either alignment would have been made. The football alignment puts 4 out of the 6 schools that put a priority in football in the Southern Division.

There is no need for divisions in basketball, although I'd be really happy with Clemson being in the Southern Division as out of the three it's by far going to be the easiest to win. NC State and Wake would be having kittens having to go through both of the 800lb gorillas just to win the division every year.

If WVU was an actual option for the ACC, then the ACC would have been wiser picking ECU. ECU is a better geographic fit for the conference and it is a natural rival of NCSU, UNC and VT. But we all know that the "pure and pristine" ACC would never associate with ECU.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2008 01:42 PM by PirateMarv.)
04-18-2008 01:41 PM
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PirateMarv Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Expansion is, thus far, a failure.
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:To recap:
- Some f***ing idiot thought It'd be a good idea to have the ACC Championship game in Jacksonville, which might as well be suburbs of Athens and Gainesville. Attendance was expectedly terrible.
- To correct the above mistake, they moved the game to Tampa for two years, which is EVEN FURTHER away for most people, and a resident Big East school is still dwarfed by SEC fan support.
- NCAA tournament bids have been lower than what they were as a 9-team league.
- BC, VT, Miami have collectively done NOT A DAMN THING on the national level IN ANY SPORT.
- The Round Robin is gone.
- Rivalries like FSU-GT and some tobacco road combinations are now not yearly in football.
- BC has terrible fan support, and is so far north it destroys the geography of the league.
- The bowls are *absolutely effing terrible*!!!! We added 3 teams, and to compensate added one mediocre bowl. ACC has NO business playing in the Emerald Bowl ... ever. It's on a fackin baseball field. It's always a pseudo-home game for the Pac-10 team. At least the Smurf Turf game is on an actual football field. ACC needs another decent or better east coast bowl.


Why not:
- Just have added Miami or VT and have a 10 team league?
- Drop BC. Even UCF would be a better choice.
- Fire Swofford, that idiot responsible, who has also shafted GT even more than the ACC refs in basketball.

Yep the Emerald Bowl does suck. But wouldn't it be wiser to to admit ECU and then send BC and UCF to the BE? This question presupposes that we live in a perfect world and a schools reputation is not an issue.
04-18-2008 01:45 PM
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