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I've been lurking here for a while and read this column. I think ETSU and the A-Sun should look at non-schollie football. Jacksonville, and Campbell are in the Pioneer Football League with Morehead State right now. It would be nice to get some more schools close by that we can play.
MSU dropped scholarships and has had nothing but success. The PFL is a good league on par with the OVC IMO. I would love to have be Bucks come up to Morehead for a game.

Milwaukee is going to play Morehead State?

Question-

Will they be using college or NBA rules and will it be part of the relief fundraising effort for the earthquake that has, evidently, put Kentucky north of Milwaukee?

Morehead is "up", topographically speaking, from Milwaukee. I'm sure that's what he meant......

I'm not sure what rules they would play the Bucks with, but I'd love to see the Bucs play Morehead in football, as long as their president (although I'll not mention his name) suits up and plays running back or wide receiver, and ETSU can use the players on that last ETSU team, especially the linebackers. (hehehe)

Bucs, sorry.
As for our president. He's been made a scapegoat for ETSU's football situation. Dr. Andrews is very committed to athletics here at MSU and has overseen a rise in the Athletics Budget and commitment to enhancing our facilities. He understands that athletics is the best marketing tool that a university has and has stated it publicly many times. There are rumors that MSU is going to return to scholarship football sometime in the not-to-distant future. Frankly, I don't care if we return to the OVC in football or not. But Dr. Andrews' commitment to athletics at MSU is very obvious.

More schools should look at the non-scholarship option. I-AA football loses money. Non-scholarship football is a plus b/c you keep more money for the department.

Around here (or at least on the predecessor to this board), we (or at least some of us) don't capitalize stanton's and andrew's names, out of deserved disrespect. I don't know what sort of 'religious' conversion andrews had when he crossed over the TN/KY line, but that's the second such report I've heard. I can only applaud it, assuming it's true. Nobody here has made him the total scapegoat. stanton is the chief culprit, but andrews had his ear, and from all accounts, andrews kept telling him what (he thought) he wanted to hear......

You may be right about more schools needing to look at non-scholarship football, but it shouldn't solely be because 1-AA football mostly (look at Appy St.) loses money. Does the Geography Dept. make money? The Physics Dept.? Does the Academic Affairs arm of a university make money? The library?
The point being, of course, that many things enhance a university experience, and while it's not healthy to hemorrhage money, "value" received is more than dollars and cents.

Scholarship football vs. non-scholarship is really a philosophical debate, and a worthy one, but there is a world of difference in perception. Added to that, significantly, is the further component of campus diversity and otherwise unrealized opportunity for financially disadvantaged (often minority) students. Johnson City, and the world in general, have been enhanced by the attendance of students to this university to play football (and other sports) - who otherwise would not have had that chance. Was the price of their scholarships worth it? I, and others, would argue "yes". One study I've quoted before (years ago) showed that the return on investment of a scholarship was about 11-fold. Not all, or even most, of course, directly to the university, but to society in general. Yes, that involves a lot of assumptions, and subjective evaluations, but there's no doubt that the world is better off with more college graduates in it. Athletic schlorships, in addition to the 'entertainment value', produce other benefits that will only be known years and decades and generations in the future......

OH DEAR GOD!

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME, MOREHEAD!

Don't come on here and tell me what a great athletic-minded president Wayne Andrews is. Just don't.

This was the guy who would make public speeches and- I'm paraphrasing here- ask aloud "Does anyone really think we need football?" then put his hand to his ear.

You say that Morehead is close to bringing back scholarship football. I want proof- considering I have spoken personally to Pioneer League SIDs who tell me "I don't know how MSU does it as a public school."

As far as the talent level of the Pioneer League, I ask you to list the amount of current NFL players from the Pioneer League, then list the current players from the Ivy.

Then get back to me.

In fact, list the amount of current NFL players from the Pioneer League against the amount of Division II players.

Let me take a look at how great the Eagles are doing here-

Mens hoops. 15-15. Lost to 13-17 team in the first round of the OVC.

Baseball. Currently 7-16.

Women's hoops. 11-19.

Dude, ETSU is kicking your ass.

Dude I-AA non-scholarship is more in-line with DIII levels. DII has scholarships.

PittsburghBucs Wrote:OH DEAR GOD!

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME, MOREHEAD!

Don't come on here and tell me what a great athletic-minded president Wayne Andrews is. Just don't.

This was the guy who would make public speeches and- I'm paraphrasing here- ask aloud "Does anyone really think we need football?" then put his hand to his ear.

You say that Morehead is close to bringing back scholarship football. I want proof- considering I have spoken personally to Pioneer League SIDs who tell me "I don't know how MSU does it as a public school."

As far as the talent level of the Pioneer League, I ask you to list the amount of current NFL players from the Pioneer League, then list the current players from the Ivy.

Then get back to me.

In fact, list the amount of current NFL players from the Pioneer League against the amount of Division II players.

Let me take a look at how great the Eagles are doing here-

Mens hoops. 15-15. Lost to 13-17 team in the first round of the OVC.

Baseball. Currently 7-16.

Women's hoops. 11-19.

Dude, ETSU is kicking your ass.

We had about 10 years of presidents who didn't know their butt from a whole in the ground and we've been making strides to correct the issues they caused. Dr. A has increases the athletics budget, and has actually let the AD do his job. Men's hoops was 15-15 just two years removed from a 2 win season under Kyle Macy. Last year we stomped ETSU at our place. Baseball is in the first year of a new coach and the same for women's hoops (the old coach went to UK).

Of the PFL schools now Drake will have a running back (Pheydavong (sp?)) make the NFL, and San Diego's QB (Johnson) should as well. At MSU we've had David Denkins make the NFL in the early 2000's but was injured. Kwesi Williams was asked to try out by several teams in 2006.

MSU is embarking on a $90-million athletics improvement plan and the RUMOR is that when the football stadium is rebuilt we'll return to the OVC. I frankly don't care if we do or don't since we've been successful in the PFL. All I'm saying is that if ETSU wants football back, and the students voted down fees then maybe this is an option for you. Many of our football players qualify for grants and other things that lower the cost of tuition, and our football team is very diverse as well. Overall the PFL model of I-AA football is a good one and more schools need to look at it.

It is interesting that four members of the non-scholarship Pioneer Football League made the NCAA tournament in their respective BB leagues. Butler, San Diego, Davidson, Drake. Dayton should have been picked. Valpo's and Jacksonville's programs are on the rise.
Looks like the blueprint ETSU needs to consider...

GREAT! We could play Emory and Henry, FINALLY that rivalry with the Wasps we've all wanted! I'm overcome with joy and excitement.

ETSUfan1 Wrote:Dude I-AA non-scholarship is more in-line with DIII levels. DII has scholarships.

Hang it there Buc fans!

Keep wayne andrews PLEASE. that man was one of the sole reasons that etsu lost it's program. stanton turned him loose as the VP and let him run (ruin) athletics. he predicted at several meetings that Western Carolina "would be next" and used scare tactics and arm twisting to intimate those staff members that were vocal about killing football.

His attitude now is nothing but self-serving in his attempt to advance his own pinky&thebrain aspirations. I hope he helps Morehead actually get scholarship football back so ya'll get back in the loop with your peers.

Quick question: is it true that MSU gives out of state waivers to football players?? if so, sounds like "athletic aid" to me... you can package non-scholarship football so that students end up getting a full ride if you want them bad enough, so the term of "non scholarship" can actually be misleading, the privates and the Ivy's do it all the time with their "assistance packages." Georgetown can actually buy-out the student loans of up to a set number of players on their team. So there's some funny numbers out there when it comes to non-scholarship football.

I still don't see ONE advantage to settling for non-scholarship. Get it fixed right and get back to the business of real college athletics.

bowdowntoUT Wrote:Keep wayne andrews PLEASE. that man was one of the sole reasons that etsu lost it's program. stanton turned him loose as the VP and let him run (ruin) athletics. he predicted at several meetings that Western Carolina "would be next" and used scare tactics and arm twisting to intimate those staff members that were vocal about killing football.

His attitude now is nothing but self-serving in his attempt to advance his own pinky&thebrain aspirations. I hope he helps Morehead actually get scholarship football back so ya'll get back in the loop with your peers.

Quick question: is it true that MSU gives out of state waivers to football players?? if so, sounds like "athletic aid" to me... you can package non-scholarship football so that students end up getting a full ride if you want them bad enough, so the term of "non scholarship" can actually be misleading, the privates and the Ivy's do it all the time with their "assistance packages." Georgetown can actually buy-out the student loans of up to a set number of players on their team. So there's some funny numbers out there when it comes to non-scholarship football.

I still don't see ONE advantage to settling for non-scholarship. Get it fixed right and get back to the business of real college athletics.

I know that many of our players qualify for grants and hardships. I don't know how private schools do it. We have a two-county rule at MSU. Any student who attends a high school within two counties of Kentucky get in-state tuition at MSU.

Other things of note. We average better attendance than some OVC schools and operationally fund our program as well as most OVC schools, we just don't give scholarships. We also play at least 1 money game against a 1-AA full-scholarship. Last season was WKU, this season will be EKU, and a few years ago was a narrow loss to App. State. Most of the PFL schools use the savings to funnel into men's basketballand baseball. We're starting to do that since we have had an AD that knows what he's doing for about 4 years and a president who can do math for about 3.

First of all, this idea that because Josh Johnson of San Diego U is a projected third-round draft choice makes non-scholarship football something extraordinary is simply not accurate.

If you want to really look at it, then last year there were eight Division III players on NFL rosters.

Fact is, I think a lot of people, and I'd like to see this talked up, would like to see ETSU make the moves that would make them "Another Marshall" or "Another USF."

Couple of other notes-

On attendance. Bully for you. But nobody ever said the OVC is a great football conference. Also, if the Eagles were 7-4 last season and they have something of a heritage (Phil Simms U), then it makes sense they'd draw more than a struggling OVC program- especially when you consider that Morehead State won't have things like the Vols and VPI taking potential fans away from them.

And I've always thought the Vols-VPI arguement was overstated- ETSU could end that immediately with a marketing campaign designed to remind people those schools are 100 miles away. But the fact is UT and VPI will be better draws than Louisville and UK football.

Final thing on Andrews. Assuming what you say is not the ramblings of a homer (which might be too big of an assumption), then what I took out of your post was Andrews let his AD do his job.

If that's the case, then that's what you can praise Andrews for. We've not had that courtesy here for a long, long time.

Let's see...that would put ETSU below Tusculum & Carson Newman in the pecking order. Stanton has gotten his wish. '02 should be so proud.

Kev,

Yet again we joust ...

I have never said that's what I want from ETSU athletics. And you know that. We both want ETSU's program to reach a larger potential, whether that is on the basketball court, baseball field, or even one day the football field. Our only differences come when we talk about how to get there.

Oh, and the other issue is that it makes me want to puke every time I think of your closet at home and all the orange that now hangs in there. Do you also offer to wash Fulmer's car on weekends?

I think he has a chauffeur. Anyway, I'm in Toronto this weekend. And Lincoln, NE next weekend. And Palm Springs, the weekend after that.

The timing just wouldn't work.

And, like most Knoxvillians, I'm not a Fulmer fan.