that their TV contract seems to be getting ironed out? If so, how many will the expand by? One? Or two? Or three? Also how could it happen? 2009? Or 2010? Or latter than that?

I think the biggest mistake was taking Wymong with them to the MWC. I have nothing against Wymong, but they have no TV market at all. MWC would have been better served if they took UTEP. TV is going to be the deciding factor if MWC ever hits BCS status.
MWC is leaving alot money on the table buy not going to 12. Hous, Utep, Frenso, Boise & Hawaii in any combination might give MWC the TV & ratings for BCS berth. Times have changed since WAC 16 & some schools are going to accept the div.

templefootballfan Wrote:I think the biggest mistake was taking Wymong with them to the MWC. I have nothing against Wymong, but they have no TV market at all. MWC would have been better served if they took UTEP. TV is going to be the deciding factor if MWC ever hits BCS status.
MWC is leaving alot money on the table buy not going to 12. Hous, Utep, Frenso, Boise & Hawaii in any combination might give MWC the TV & ratings for BCS berth. Times have changed since WAC 16 & some schools are going to accept the div.

There was no way Wyoming would not be included... To much history to be left out... Have you ever heard the term "Gang of 5" in relating to the MWC, the 5 would be Air Force, BYU, Colorado St, Utah, and Wyoming. IMO, it should be the "Gang of 6" with New Mexico added to the list.
Just in football Wyoming has played:
Air Force- 46 times
BYU- 74 times
Colorado St- 99 times
New Mexico- 60 times
Utah- 80 times

Way to much history;
WAC charter members in 1962-
Arizona
Arizona St
BYU
New Mexico
Utah
Wyoming
In 1967, Colorado St joined the WAC
San Diego St in 1978
Air Force in 1980
Wyoming's WAC football Championships- 1966, 1967, 1968, 1976, 1987, 1988, 1993

Before the WAC-->
Mountain States Conference or Skyline Conference
Charter members in 1938-
BYU
Colorado- left in 1948 to join the Big Six
Colorado St
Denver- dropped football in 1961
Utah
Utah St
Wyoming
In 1951, Montana and New Mexico joined the Skyline Conference
Wyoming's Skyline Conference football Championships- 1949, 1950, 1956, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961

As far a Wyoming's TV market, you have to remember Wyoming controls the whole State (there is no other major school in the State). So 500,000 people does not look near as bad and their is a lot of Wyoming fans (grads) that live in the Denver area.
Vic Koenning really hurt the Wyoming football program, from 2000 to 2002 (3 years), he went 5-29 (the 5 win were over- Central Michigan, Furman, @Utah St, the Citadel, and Air Force).

I'm aware of the gang of 5, I'm aware of Wymong history with the gang of 5. I'm also aware of the fact the that the game has changed, it's not about region anymore. TV revenue & bowls are the deciding factors on conf decission. SJST, Frensno, UTEP & Hous brings 15 to 20 million viewers to the table. Wymong's 500,000 are killing MWC

templefootballfan Wrote:I'm aware of the gang of 5, I'm aware of Wymong history with the gang of 5. I'm also aware of the fact the that the game has changed, it's not about region anymore. TV revenue & bowls are the deciding factors on conf decission. SJST, Frensno, UTEP & Hous brings 15 to 20 million viewers to the table. Wymong's 500,000 are killing MWC

I'd rather have Wyoming than San Jose St any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Same goes for Houston... Fresno St would be a push, if they didn't have so many run ins with the NCAA (3 or 4 in the last 10 years) then they would have an edge maybe. It's kind of a touchy subject with me and Fresno St, since they were the swing vote in the WAC going to 16 and that mess.
It does not matter that the greater metro area of the San Jose has over 7 million in population if hardly any of the 7 million care about your program (Stanford and Cal).
Houston has to deal with Texas and Texa&M.

Football Attendance for 2007:
Fresno St- 36,291 per game (Metro Fresno 1,002,284)
Wyoming- 22,190 per game (whole State of Wyoming 493,782)
Houston- 20,955 per game (Metro Houston 5,628,101)
San Jose St- 15,465 per game (Metro San Jose 7,264,887)
Sorry but larger populated area does not mean better fan support... The WAC did that kind of thinking when they went to 16 members adding San Jose St, TCU, SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and UNLV.

Latest Sports Budget numbers I have found:
Houston- $28,188,613
Fresno St- $25,153,897
Wyoming- $21,031,881
San Jose St- $16,970,448

Wyoming has such a huge surplus of money (from oil, coal, and natural gas) that they are currently on a 3 year plan in which they are putting $1 billion into the U of Wyoming. I want to say the State approved a $2 million sports increase this year (last year was about the same). Wyoming just finished building a Indoor Practice Facility and are currently upgrading the War Memorial Stadium (Press box, Suites, and Cub Seating). I believe that upgrades to the Arena-Auditorium (AA) has already been approved. IMO, Wyoming has a very bright future...

How did the vote go for WAC 16, I also tought if WAC 16 was given more time it might have panned out

I have nothing against Wymong, I'm just looking at #'s. What's the difference between UNLV & Frenso, I know FSU has had promblem & are trying to clear them up. I always tought UNLV & FSU were in the same boat. Hous has just to much potentail to over look, BB & FB are improving & at times Hous has drawn well. I would agree SJST needs alot of work, With just BYU coming in every other yr would jump there avg up to 20,000.

templefootballfan Wrote:How did the vote go for WAC 16, I also tought if WAC 16 was given more time it might have panned out

Vote To Expand-
Colorado St
Fresno St
Hawaii
San Diego St
UTEP

Voted Against Expansion-
Air Force
BYU
Utah
Wyoming

Did Not Vote-
New Mexico

For the life of me, I still do not know why Colorado St President voted to expand. I also don't know why New Mexico's President did not make it to the meeting. Maybe he did not not want to vote...

templefootballfan Wrote:I have nothing against Wymong, I'm just looking at #'s. What's the difference between UNLV & Frenso, I know FSU has had promblem & are trying to clear them up. I always tought UNLV & FSU were in the same boat. Hous has just to much potentail to over look, BB & FB are improving & at times Hous has drawn well. I would agree SJST needs alot of work, With just BYU coming in every other yr would jump there avg up to 20,000.

Their was know way the WAC 16 would have ever worked...
The ones who voted for expansion thought the TV contract would increase, it didn't... The ones who voted for expansion thought the WAC would get more Bowl tie-ins, that didn't happen either... They used a quadrant system, so it really mess up a lot of old rivalries.
BYU was loosing so much money (millions each year) there was talk of dropping the sports programs. The Athletic Department was told they had better fix the problem (Red Ink) or they would no long be in business (or something like that). BYU athletic department has to be self sufficient, they receive no funding from BYU or the LDS Church. Their Budget comes money earned (ticket sales, TV, Bowls, NCAA credits, and ect...) and donations (fund raising).
Needless to say BYU was not the only conference member loosing money either...

WOW, 5-4-1 to expand. Looks to me NM wanted expansion with Tex schools but did not want to step on any toes. What happened to Freedom bowl, I tought game was doing pretty good. I saw you lost Holiday bowl in 95. I tought they made a bad choice dropping WAC for B-12. WAC broke up in '99 when there 18 bowls, couple yrs later bowls were up to 22 & TV contracts took off. I tought schools splittered off because nobody liked Div setups. Would this have worked
north - south
Tulsa - SMU
Wym - TCU
AF - Rice
CSU - Utep
Utah - NM
BYU - Haw
SDST - Frenso
UNLV - SJST

I think the real promblem with WAC 16 was BYU was the 100 lb gorilla. every body wanted to play them with 62,000 & 22,000 capicties & fans they brought on they road filled every body else up.

templefootballfan Wrote:I think the real promblem with WAC 16 was BYU was the 100 lb gorilla. every body wanted to play them with 62,000 & 22,000 capicties & fans they brought on they road filled every body else up.

Not that it really matters back then Cougar Stadium held 65,000 (didn't become LaVell Edwards Stadium until Edward's final game in 2000) and the Marriott Center held 23,000. Both have been upgrade by taking out bleacher and adding chair back seating. Currently LaVell Edwards Stadium holds 64,045 (chair back seats added after the 2002 season) and the Marriott Center holds 22,700 (I believe more bleachers were replaced with chair back seats after the 1999-98 season). The Marriott Center now has 10,100 chair back seats out of it's 22,700 seats.

templefootballfan Wrote:I think the real promblem with WAC 16 was BYU was the 100 lb gorilla. every body wanted to play them with 62,000 & 22,000 capicties & fans they brought on they road filled every body else up.

BYU, Wyoming, CSU, and Utah have been playing each other for 100 years. None of the group wanted to sacrifice 100 year old rivalries for the sake of playing half assed teams like SJSU, SMU, Rice, Tulsa...

It had nothing to do with a gorilla. It had a lot to do with 100 year old rivalries.

Hey CJ, did Wyoming get their Sport Budget increase approved?

Sometimes I'd don't know why bowls don't pay teams to sit home for better matchups that could pay alot more money. I was looking at bowls for 96-98 seasons, you said WAC tought they would get more bowls. 96 was 2 bowls, 97 was 3, 98 was 4. Ironically 99 WAC & MWC recieved 6 bids, bowls also grew from 18, 20, 22, 23 these 4 yrs.
in '96 Wym[10-2] & ND[8-3] sat at home, Sun bowl had 6-5 matchup between MichSt & Stanford. I can't believe TV, Sponsers, city & conf could not come up with money to get ND & Wym in game. I also can't believe bowls don't leaves out in thier contract when the get stuck with 6 win teams.
LV bowl paid Ball St 125,000 dollars, WAC should have bumped Ball St & sent Colo St or Rice.
same serino with Aloha bowl, pay Cal[6-5] to sit home & send SDST[8-3]

In '97, Rice was the only team sitting at home in the MWC with 7 wins. Cinnanati bought the Boise bowl with BB team making apperence in Boise. WAC could have beet that offer easily. Liberty bowl was not happy with 6-5 Pitt & droped BE after game. WAC could have sent AF & let Rice go to LV.
Oregon went to LV in 97 at 6-5, Moving Ariz St from Sun bowl would payed to send Oregon home & allowed Rice in Sun bowl

In '98 4 teams went to bowls, with Wym[8-3], ColoSt[8-4] & Utah[7-4] sitting at home. SDST went to LV, Why did LV take 6-5 NC with Wym & ColoSt sitting there, SDST did not play either school in '98 season. The only other spot was Sun bowl & they took TCU becuase of split instead of 8 win team, this was a wash anyway.
Wash at 6-5 was in Haw, how does WAC not have 2 spots in Haw

templefootballfan Wrote:In '98 4 teams went to bowls, with Wym[8-3], ColoSt[8-4] & Utah[7-4] sitting at home. SDST went to LV, Why did LV take 6-5 NC with Wym & ColoSt sitting there, SDST did not play either school in '98 season. The only other spot was Sun bowl & they took TCU becuase of split instead of 8 win team, this was a wash anyway.
Wash at 6-5 was in Haw, how does WAC not have 2 spots in Haw

The whole Bowl thing was a huge mess with the WAC 16... During that time the WAC lost both tie-ins with Holiday Bowl and the Insight Bowl and were more or less replace with the Liberty Bowl and the Las Vegas Bowl. They gained the Las Vegas Bowl in 1997, but lost the Insight Bowl and Holiday Bowl in 1998, but picked up the Liberty Bowl in 1998. The Oahu Classic Bowl was started in 1998 also giving the WAC a tie-in, because for some reason the the WAC never could get a tie-in with the Aloha Bowl, I guess the U of Hawaii never had enough pull with that Bowl. I still I'm not sure how TCU ever got the invite to the Sun Bowl in 1998 as an at-large. But as you see the WAC 16 took the WAC's Bowls in the wrong direction...

WAC Bowls 3 year before, 3 during, and 4 years after the WAC 16...
1993- Aloha Bowl, Copper/Insight Bowl, Freedom Bowl, Holiday Bowl

1994- Freedom Bowl, Copper/Insight Bowl, Holiday Bowl

1995- Copper/Insight Bowl, Holiday Bowl

**1996- Copper/Insight Bowl, Cotton Bowl

**1997- Las Vegas Bowl, Insight.com Bowl, Holiday Bowl

**1998- Las Vegas Bowl, Oahu Classic, Sun Bowl, Liberty Bowl

1999- Las Vegas Bowl, Mobile Alabama Bowl, Oahu Classic
MWC- Las Vegas Bowl, Motor City Bowl, Liberty Bowl

2000- Mobile Alabama Bowl, Humanitarian Bowl, Silicon Valley Classic
MWC- Las Vegas Bowl, Liberty Bowl, Silicon Valley Classic

2001- Humanitarian Bowl, Silicon Valley Classic
MWC- New Orleans Bowl, Las Vegas Bowl, Liberty Bowl

2002- Hawaii Bowl, Humanitarian Bowl, Silicon Valley Classic
MWC- Las Vegas Bowl, Liberty Bowl, San Francisco/Emerald Bowl

Sun bowl took 6-5 TCU over 8-3 Wym because MWC split & left UTEP behind. Sun bowl tried to show some support for UTEP & WAC. More local support & TCU might have brought more fans did not hurt either.

I don't agree WAC 16 hurt bowls, somebody was a sleep at wheel. I do think that Benson, could not get Boise in Boise bowl.
in 96 Sun bowl pays million dollars to each team, pay Stanford & Mich St half million to stay at home, which is take home after travell expenses. Wym - ND would have made 3 million dollars for Sun bowl. I can't believe TV, sponsers, city, MWC & higher ticket prices could not pull this off.