I have noticed that your coach is rumored to have cut three players to make room for better players. I know nothing of the situation other than what is in these threads. However, what is your opinion of the coach cutting players based upon skill level alone?

I know that technically scholarships are renewed annually, but you don't see this happen much. I personally don't agree with it. What are your thoughts? What if it were your son?

We obviously were not competitive with these players. That's what I think and can only assume that is what Tony Ingle is thinking. This university is looking up. They are not looking to status quo.

This isn't rec ball.

Other than Keith I don't see of the guys he cut playing next year anyway. They would have never gotten minutes and left on their own.. in my opinion he did them a favor by letting them know ahead of time so they can transfer.

Who was cut?

I would think this would hurt recruiting in the future. I would not want to go to a place where the coach has a history of pulling scholarships out from under kids. It was the coaches decision to recruit them, so he should live with what he brought in.

There is a big difference between letting a kid know where he stands in terms of playing time, and pulling his college scholarship.

No this isn't rec ball, but do you think that these kids were told how good they were, how bad KSU wanted them, how well they'd be treated, etc., etc. during the recruitment process?

I have no idea who recruited them, but personally I think it is unethical to bring a kid in, promise them an education, and them cut them when you think you have better options. This isn't rec league, but this isn't the NBA either.

A couple of questions, how long has your coach been there and did he recruit these players?

Coach has been here for a while, through a national championship and a few title games in D-II. We're seriously hurt recruiting wise by a mandatory 4-year probation period from postseason play for transitioning. He has 4 years left of a 5 year deal to remain as head coach for us.

My opinion is that his back is up against a wall. He hasn't been able to recruit the talent level that we had even at D-II so I know we can do better. He had a great program running, got hit by the transition and has had to settle for players that weren't up to his recruiting ability, quality of play or size.

Who knows, maybe they'll stick around. More power to them.

What if you're the recruit who was just explained that we had to trim the fat so we could give you a scholarship because we're coming out of a tough "out-of-our-hands" rough patch and you're the future of the program. That puts the recruit in a sense that he's REALLY wanted. Look at it through their shoes. Yeah, it looks bad to the outsider but given the circumstances it's going to help KSU. Ingle knows that.

I agree it could help your team. At the same time I don't think it is ethical if you go into these players houses and tell there parents you want their kid on your team and your going to take care of them while they are at your school.

They also earned the scholly to play basketball. If they weren't performing or putting in the effort or being a teamplayer, whatever the reason was, then it's probably in Tony's right to say I have to give your scholly to a person who can help us out as a program moreso than you've shown.

Scholarships stink anyways... it's free I guess but it's not THAT much money they actually give the player in benefits (housing, tuition, book allowance). Nothing they wouldn't just normally get a student loan for like everyone else. I lost my scholarship and got it back. I'm did ok.

I also think it's reasonable to think the only reason some of these guys are at KSU is to play ball.

No family wants their kid cut from the team. They don't even want their darling picked last in a pick up game. That's the way it is. This time there's $10,000/yr attached to it. Most already have 2 years under their belt for not performing. That's not a bad head start for an education. I'm not buying it though.

I wonder if basketball is still graduating 35%.... that's another topic.

A few things - I dont think anyone here (I know I don't) knows the exact situation of the transfers. "Cutting" is a strong term that implies alot about the situation. It could very easily be the player wanting to transfer (IE: Andre Morgan last year), it could very easily be the coaches explaining the playing time situation for next year and the future and the player deciding it would be best to move on, or it could be the coaches telling the player that it just isn't going to work out. We don't know the facts, the academics, what has happened behind closed doors.

Players transfer every year from every institution at every level of college play. To imply that Kennesaw's coaching staff is being unethical when we have almost ZERO knowledge of the situation is very premature. What happened this year at Kennesaw is not out of the norm...just have a little perspective...

Belmont has a more consistent record with regards to player retention, but ETSU has fared no better in recent years then Kennesaw, so the ETSU fans need to dismount from their high horses. I believe Belmont's stability has a lot to do with Byrd's stability as a head coach - he has been there for over 20 years, he knows what kind of players will succeed at his school, and he has had the time to build his program. Belmont wasn't saddled with a 4 year grace period to work through in recruiting either.

As someone mentioned, Ingle has 4 years left on a renewable contract, so I would doubt he has any pressure. This is simply a case of a square peg not fitting a round hole. Whether the player realized this first or the coaching staff, the result is the same, and both parties are probably better off.

Lastly - consider this situation. Say you were a college sophomore and the coaching staff brought you in at the end of the year and basically told you that your playing time your junior and senior year was going to be minimal. That they had found players that were better suited for their style, and while you were welcome to stay on the team and sit the bench, you were also welcome to pursue other options, and the coaching staff would help you look for a school that was a good fit using their coaching connections. What would you do? Would you stay and sit? Would you look and find a good fit for your last two years? Is the player at fault for leaving? Is the coaching staff at fault for the player leaving? Hopefully that gives a little perspective.

We don't know the details, we just know the results. There are a lot of different avenues that could have led to the results. Let's not assume that we can guess which route was taken.

Northside Bruin Wrote:I have noticed that your coach is rumored to have cut three players to make room for better players. I know nothing of the situation other than what is in these threads. However, what is your opinion of the coach cutting players based upon skill level alone?

I know that technically scholarships are renewed annually, but you don't see this happen much. I personally don't agree with it. What are your thoughts? What if it were your son?

And also, I don't really appreciate you coming over here in your first 10-15 posts, and obviously starting a topic that is meant to make Kennesaw look bad. It makes it look like you are just trying to pick a fight. Luckily none of us fell for that, but you would have a lot more credibility with your post if you were someone that had been around here for a while, and had a balanced view of the teams in the ASun.

Welcome to the boards Bruin. I appreciate your candor and don't believe mulling these boards makes you an ASun ambassador. I don't agree with you on this but I've already made that apparent.

KB, absolutely right on the number of reasons these players found themselves on the short list. I don't even think it matters that the public know the real reason. They're moving on and so are we.

Recruiting is in such an extremely difficult spot right now for us. I CAN'T WAIT FOR PROBATION TO BE OVER!

Interesting discussion gentleman...As KB articulated, there's a myriad of reasons why players transfer. As fans, it's easy to speculate, but most often we simply do not know the circumstances behind the scenes.
I can only speak anecdotally and what I've observed at ETSU, but generally speaking playing time is a central issue with many of these players. I'm painting with a broad brush here, but this generation of players seem to feel entitled to immediate playing time. Every college coach I speak with talks about this sense of entitlement. Mister Jennings, the greatest basketball player ever at ETSU, spoke of how in his day (ealy 90's) "everyone knew their role". On one hand I love the athleticiscm and showmanship of today's players, but I do miss that approach to the game.
I also sort of take a hard-line with today's scholarship players. After all, they're are getting paid to perform well (both in the claassroom and on the court) and have an opportunity--the opportunity to receive a paid-for education--that most of us never had. If they are a bust, I do not have a problem with a coach pulling his/her scholarship. Now, as KB said, there are always mutliple circumstances that factor into this decision, so it's not totally performance driven.
From a PR standpoint, coaches have to be very savvy when dismissing players. Bartow has been slammed at ETSU for releasing players, but I know from inside sources that these dismissals were completely warranted.

Excellent post faithful. I think often the coaching staffs are scapegoating in these situations, when there are usually a number of legitimate reasons why players or coaching staffs decide it is time to separate from each other.

As you may surmise I am an internet freak. In the preseason capsules in the USA Today online, Tony Ingle was spelled out in the preseason as a coach that turns his roster over quite frequently. That surprised me.

We are dealing with 2 issues here, but the number 1 issue is that college basketball is a big business and job security is fleeting. That issue comes before a coach coming into a living room and making promises which is the second issue.

The players that were released either had attitude problems or didn't improve enough to make a consistent contribution. As far as skills, I blame that on the coaches. We have enough tools to improve any player provided that they WANT to improve. These kids have a responsibility to improve their skills to maintain their scholly. With the schedule that KSU plays we need the best players that we can get.

Go, Fly, Win, Owls! Wrote:As you may surmise I am an internet freak. In the preseason capsules in the USA Today online, Tony Ingle was spelled out in the preseason as a coach that turns his roster over quite frequently. That surprised me.

We are dealing with 2 issues here, but the number 1 issue is that college basketball is a big business and job security is fleeting. That issue comes before a coach coming into a living room and making promises which is the second issue.

The players that were released either had attitude problems or didn't improve enough to make a consistent contribution. As far as skills, I blame that on the coaches. We have enough tools to improve any player provided that they WANT to improve. These kids have a responsibility to improve their skills to maintain their scholly. With the schedule that KSU plays we need the best players that we can get.

I think you made a good post, but I am wondering how the bolded text works. You blame the coaches, but then put the responsibility on the players...don't understand. I think the coaches are responsible in the sense that recruiting is a tough science, and sometimes coaches get the wrong formula which forces them to start over. I think the players are responsible in the way in which you said - the facilities, the tools are there for improvement...sometimes the players need to "man up" and work on their game. Like I said, I pretty much agree with what you were trying to say, just got confused by the bolded comment :)

Wow, I just checked back here to see that I have been pretty well slammed. A few rebuttals:

1. I have been around the ASun longer than you have, regardless of the number of posts. I just found out about this board. Don't play the rookie card on me.

2. I didn't bring up the words cutting players, someone on here did and was stating it as fact. I was asking.

3. A previous poster chided me for coming on here to make KSU "look bad". If there's nothing wrong with it, then how can it make KSU look bad?

4. I have nothing against KSU, Coach Ingle, or anyone else. This is something unusual to hear. It is commonplace and probably helpful to let each and every player know where they stand in terms of playing time. This goes for the guys who won't play much. Those guys can decide if they want to transfer or continue their education in a reserve role. Cutting the players you recruited is pretty tough IMO. You also cut their education and reneged on recruitment promises (unless during recruitment you told them that if they weren't good enough you might cut them).

5. What do actions like this mean to KSU's graduation rate and the new ratings index in college sports. It's gotta hurt VERY significantly.

Northside - I didn't mean that you were rookie to the A-Sun, just that we don't know you on this board. You have just joined, and just started posting. One of your first posts is suggesting that there our coaching staff is unethically cutting players. I don't think anyone over-reacted, we just disagree with your premise.

You don't know what happened with each individual player, so long range speculation like you have done is pointless. Despite your innocent tone of voice, what you are suggesting is very clear. You don't know if the players approached the coaches or the coaches approached the players, you don't know the extenuating circumstances behind each individual kid...you just don't know.

You said the following phrases:

"your coach is rumored to have cut three players" - what actual facts do you know...all you know is rumor, you have no facts
"coach cutting players based upon skill level alone" - again, you are assuming they were cut, and then you are assuming a reason for this supposed cut. You have no facts for either of these assumptions
"you don't see this happen much" - see what happen? Players transfer? You see players transfer all the time.
"I personally don't agree with it" - agree with what? Again you are saying that the coaches are cutting players when you have no facts. Do you not agree with player's transferring? You are basing all of you assumptions on something with zero facts.
"What if it were your son" - Again based on an assumption that the players were dragged out the door kicking and screaming. What if the kid wanted to leave? In that case I would be happy. What if my kid had done poorly in the classroom and had rebelled against the coaching staff? I would then think that it was good for both sides to move on. You don't know what happened.
"I think it is unethical to bring a kid in, promise them an education, and them cut them when you think you have better options" - I feel like a broken record. Unless you are one of the KSU players that has moved on from Kennesaw (which according to your previous post you are not) then you have no idea that this is the case.

You are simply trying to start a fire on our boards, and no one here is taking the bait. You claim that you have been around the ASun for a long time...that is fine, I have no problem with that. If you have been around for so long, you should understand when you don't have all the facts, and therefore shouldn't assume exactly what happened.

I walked outside this morning on my patio and the ground was wet. It could have rained, my wife could have poured out a glass a water, or my dog could have pissed on the ground. All I know is that the ground is wet. To assume how the wetness got there without any other facts would be naive. My best bet would be to ask my wife, look at the weather report, and get the facts rather than assume I know the methods behind the outcome.

Once again, I didn't make this up. It came from this board and was purported to be fact. Even though it was purported to be fact, I still acknowledged it was a rumor.

You are 100% right, I do not have the facts. Your issue should be with the person who stated it here as a fact, not someone responding to it and acknowledging it was a rumor.

I will retract my statements and say that, hypothetically speaking, if a coach were rumored to cut players, that rumor were true, and the players weren't told about that during recruitment, then that is not ethical.

Now go ask the poster here who said it was a fact to retract it or come up with some proof. My note is on the hypothetical situation only based upon a publicly-posted rumor.

All the posters were asking questions, not starting new threads to try and make Kennesaw look bad.