No me gusta Hippies.

The Dave Avenger Wrote:

tigerjeb Wrote:

umbluegray Wrote:They didn't want the new section of the zoo. They wanted an interestate instead.

an academic question. because the I-40 did not go straight through town, saving that forrest, forcing the construction of the north leg of the 240 loop and expansion of the south leg, adding about 20 or so miles to the journey through memphis, in an ecological sense were those trees ultimately more valuable than the tons of extra exhaust pollutants and billions of gallons of gasoline consumed because of the extra mileage and time?

Not to mention those 11 people who were burned to death in that horrible propane tanker explosion 20 years ago because the ramp to divert traffic to the north had a dangerously tight radius.

Good point. Not to mention the hundreds of wrecks that took place there and at other convoluted interchanges.

Not to mention the pockets of redevelopment we may have seen over the last 30 years along the I40 corridor between Highland and Danny Thomas.

There are people who will protest anything you do. Most of those protesting this expansion have probably never set foot into the area in question; it's just a knee jerk reaction on their part.

I think, if you were to ask, that the vast majority of the people who use the park and the zoo are in favor of this project / expansion. Unfortunatley, it's the vocal minority who often get all the press.

The easiest thing in the world to do is to criticize, complain, and be 'against' a project or an idea.

BB

The Dave Avenger Wrote:

tigerjeb Wrote:

umbluegray Wrote:They didn't want the new section of the zoo. They wanted an interestate instead.

an academic question. because the I-40 did not go straight through town, saving that forrest, forcing the construction of the north leg of the 240 loop and expansion of the south leg, adding about 20 or so miles to the journey through memphis, in an ecological sense were those trees ultimately more valuable than the tons of extra exhaust pollutants and billions of gallons of gasoline consumed because of the extra mileage and time?

Not to mention those 11 people who were burned to death in that horrible propane tanker explosion 20 years ago because the ramp to divert traffic to the north had a dangerously tight radius.

Those are only human beings, whose very existence threaten the magnificent natural environment.

People can die, but the wonderful trees MUST be spared.

Regarding the extra 20 miles and additional consumption of toxic spewing gasoline, well, most of those pollutant-belching automobiles should be outlawed anyway. A green tax of about $25,000 per year should be assessed per vehicle. Why can't people bicycle or walk anymore?

We must remember it is ALL about the environment.

Obviously I am being absurd to make a point. I know people who honestly think like this. They are environmentla extremists.

NJ1 Wrote:just so we're clear, you guys are blaming the saving of trees for traffic accidents, right?

Just making sure I have this straight.

Damn skippy. After all, you just can't trust those trees anymore. A guy around the corner got himself kilt by a tree. The thing had the nerve to fall right thru his roof and kill him instantly while he slept.

.........damn trees....:muttering:

Gray Avenger Wrote:In the Summer of 1968 I was a young, newly-married 20-year-old who had just moved to Memphis. Guess what my first job was? Worked with a survey party for the civil engineering company responsible for planning the I-40 route thru Overton Park. Spent a lot of hot days dragging a measuring tape in the Broad Avenue area east of the Park. I remember a tearful woman talking to our crew chief as we surveyed the highway centerline thru her home which was later demolished for no real purpose. Call me a tree-hugger, but in a way, I am glad the highway did not go thru the park.

I had a friend that lived just east of Highland when the interstate was being built. They did not tear down his house, but they tore off one room and put up a steel pole on the back of the house to support the upstairs. I get a chuckle over it even today when I drive down Sam Cooper and I see that damn pole. It was in court for several years, the State won, but I still don't see how they could take part of their house for the interstate.

Probably because it is an old-growth forest, an ecosystem that has existed for about 200 years, undisturbed in this now-large city, the only area of its kind here. The ecosystem includes not only the four large preserved trees, but the undergrowth, smaller trees, and brush, the decaying flora, and the insects and fauna.

Can replanting any number of new, young, native and non-native trees replace what they just cut down? Wasn't a microcosm of our own West Tennessee old forest just as valuable an exhibit as a Grand Teton reproduction? And who says the old forest didn't have its own unique "use", as just that, undisturbed land that perhaps Marcus Winchester or the Native Americans saw?

I don't know anything about the new project. I am not commenting on the pros or cons of what happened about the highway all those years ago. I am only commenting on what we had left of the Old Forest and what has now happened to it. The zoo has been encroaching on the forest for some years now, i.e. all the trees that have been torn down for the maintenance buildings on the east side. Justify that.

I doubt many of you know much about the new project either, but you make fun of tree huggers and attempt to justify the destruction of a large number of trees.

I get tired of seemingly high-handed, short-sighted city bureaucrats just hauling off and doing things that are irreversible and high-impact with no input or even notice to the citizens of this city or the neighbors. Too many wonderful elements of this city have been lost to future generations forever, from old homes in Midtown and Downtown to green spaces. Just general comments from me.

NJ1 Wrote:just so we're clear, you guys are blaming the saving of trees for traffic accidents, right?

Just making sure I have this straight.

We are talking about the decision not to build I-40 through the interior of the city. The opponents had numerous reason that included saving Overton Park, the zoo and yes, trees. Because the decision was made not to come through the city but to divert I-40 north around the city some ramps, which have now been reworked, were too tight for interstate traffic and did, indeed, cause the accident I refered to.

News flash! This just in! It has been discovered that, unlike mountains, trees are renewable, and will grow back if planted in place of cut-down trees, much like a crop of corn.

tigerjeb Wrote:an academic question. because the I-40 did not go straight through town, saving that forrest, forcing the construction of the north leg of the 240 loop and ....

Would have been built anyway, just not as soon.

Quote:cant see the forest for the trees are gone

there I fixed it for you.

Gray Avenger Wrote:In the Summer of 1968 I was a young, newly-married 20-year-old who had just moved to Memphis. Guess what my first job was? Worked with a survey party for the civil engineering company responsible for planning the I-40 route thru Overton Park. Spent a lot of hot days dragging a measuring tape in the Broad Avenue area east of the Park. I remember a tearful woman talking to our crew chief as we surveyed the highway centerline thru her home which was later demolished for no real purpose. Call me a tree-hugger, but in a way, I am glad the highway did not go thru the park.

I was 8 years old in 1968. In '69, we had to move to Raleigh from my parents home on Stonewall between Poplar and Overton Park Ave. We had a big stone 4 square with Oak bookcases on either side of the oak mantel, oak winding staircase, stained glass windows in the dining room, built in bookcase / buffett in the breakfast room, radiator heat, hardwood floors, brass doorknobs, fireplace upstairs in the master bedroom...it was a beautiful house.

Today, those houses are selling for close to half a million dollars. The state paid my dad $29,000 for his house. I cried when I watched it being torn down. Then several years later when the state gave the land back to the city after losing the battle for I-40, they offered the bare lot back to him for $50,000 but he had to rebuild within 2 years, and had to have the plans approved by the Evergreen Historic commision. He told them to go screw themselves.

The damn interstate should have been built after all that we and others lost.

NJ1 Wrote:just so we're clear, you guys are blaming the saving of trees for traffic accidents, right?

Just making sure I have this straight.

Hey, math major, how many trees were destroyed for the 20 mile circumnavigation of the city versus the 2 mile run through the park VERSUS the 2 mile tunnel under the park?

Not to mention those 11 people who were burned to death in that horrible propane tanker explosion 20 years ago because the ramp to divert traffic to the north had a dangerously tight radius.
[/quote] Yep the Driver of that Propane Tanker was a good friend of mine and his Dad drove for the same company and he fought that curve on the interstate for a long time after that, it was way to sharp especially for big trucks..

I used to like trees until one jumped in front of me one night causing extensive damage to my car.

But seriously, I think it's a shame to remove old trees that way. There are fewer things more majestic in Memphis than 100 - 200 plus year old oak trees. The greenery in and around Memphis, to me, is one of it's main charms. Whenever I have visitors from out of state they invariably comment on how green the area is. I say leave the really old ones alone and incorparate then into any development plan.

"Not to mention those 11 people who were burned to death in that horrible propane tanker explosion 20 years ago because the ramp to divert traffic to the north had a dangerously tight radius."

That was poor engineering/design that has been reconstructed several times. I believe that it now has been properly constructed.

"I was 8 years old in 1968. In '69, we had to move to Raleigh from my parents home on Stonewall between Poplar and Overton Park Ave. We had a big stone 4 square with Oak bookcases on either side of the oak mantel, oak winding staircase, stained glass windows in the dining room, built in bookcase / buffett in the breakfast room, radiator heat, hardwood floors, brass doorknobs, fireplace upstairs in the master bedroom...it was a beautiful house."

That was really tragic. I had a paper route in the early 60's and that part of Stonewall was on my route. I loved those old houses. They were great.

Oops. wasn't finished. The only thing I don't like about Overton Park is what kind of person might be lurking behind those trees. When was the last time anyone here actually walked through the forrested areas of Overton Park. I think my last trip through was when I used to play golf there back in the 80's. It was scary not knowing who you were going to meet. I don't know about now but there used to be some VERY STRANGE people that lurked in the park.

Pressed Rat Wrote:"Not to mention those 11 people who were burned to death in that horrible propane tanker explosion 20 years ago because the ramp to divert traffic to the north had a dangerously tight radius."

That was poor engineering/design that has been reconstructed several times. I believe that it now has been properly constructed.

"I was 8 years old in 1968. In '69, we had to move to Raleigh from my parents home on Stonewall between Poplar and Overton Park Ave. We had a big stone 4 square with Oak bookcases on either side of the oak mantel, oak winding staircase, stained glass windows in the dining room, built in bookcase / buffett in the breakfast room, radiator heat, hardwood floors, brass doorknobs, fireplace upstairs in the master bedroom...it was a beautiful house."

That was really tragic. I had a paper route in the early 60's and that part of Stonewall was on my route. I loved those old houses. They were great.

I'm pretty sure they are still there, it's a beautiful area if I am remebering correctly.

Go Tigers?