The Big East will be forced to split.

The basketball side has too many teams, which will leave a lot of teams out of the postseason who are used to making it. At best, the Big East is looking at 7-8 teams making the NCAA Tournament in a really good year. Split them up, and realistically 10+ could make it.

The football side needs a ninth team to allow four home games and four road games.

16 is just too many teams for a conference. The WAC learned this lesson back in the 90s.

The new Big East would be:

Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Memphis
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
West Virginia

Memphis is the logical choice for several reasons:

1) Large metropolitan market
2) Liberty Bowl tie-in
3) Made postseason in football, basketball, and baseball
4) Traditional rivalry with some Big East schools already established

The non-football members would form a new conference:

DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Notre Dame
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova

They may even raid the Atlantic 10 (which currently has 14 teams) for additional teams. Combined they have 22 teams, which could work out if they split with 11 each.

I see this as a win-win for everyone.

Airport KC Wrote:

frogman Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:I fail to see what the Civil War has to do with adding Memphis to the conference. Educate me.

The point was made that some of the BE schools like Uof L and West Virginia are southern schools according to the lines drawn on maps. The thinking being that since we have these "southern" schools what's the problem in adding more like Memphis.
My point is that thoughWV and UofL are listed as southern schools on a map, they are pretty northern. In fact, they are northen enought to even side with the north during the civil war. That's just to show how close they are to the north geographically- nothing more.
My point was that those are geographically northern/southern states. I think the north/south line is drawn way too high anyway. Memphis is a southern/southern state and not in the BE's northern footprint.

This always makes for lively debate because there is no right answer to where to draw the northern/southern line.

I would argue that its a moot point today. Its more about rural vs. urban and middle-america vs. coasts.

The Big East is an urban school league for the most part. Memphis does fit in with that. However is Memphis "East" enough?

There is a clear line where I come from.

Got to know your affiliation son. CWII could start again at any moment. Best to be ready.

Gonna warn you yanks though - we've been preparing for a while.

Shannon Panther Wrote:Being kicked out of the BE was a wake up call to Temple. They have started investing in coaches and facilities at the school. If Temple gets to a MAC championship game in the next 2 years, they would be back in play IMHO. Rutgers is a definate yes, Pitt is a yes, Syracuse probably a yes, WVU is probably a yes as well, UConn probably a yes. If it is UCF or Temple, USF will probably support Temple. That makes it 6-2 assuming that UC & Louisville favor Memphis.

Some have said Temple being out of the Big East has helped Rutgers in recruiting. I think its also helped Pitt too. The Big East is leaner and meaner without Temple.

Temple was fired after 13 years in the Big East. It would take a miracle for a second chance.

LUVECU Wrote:

Airport KC Wrote:

frogman Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:I fail to see what the Civil War has to do with adding Memphis to the conference. Educate me.

The point was made that some of the BE schools like Uof L and West Virginia are southern schools according to the lines drawn on maps. The thinking being that since we have these "southern" schools what's the problem in adding more like Memphis.
My point is that thoughWV and UofL are listed as southern schools on a map, they are pretty northern. In fact, they are northen enought to even side with the north during the civil war. That's just to show how close they are to the north geographically- nothing more.
My point was that those are geographically northern/southern states. I think the north/south line is drawn way too high anyway. Memphis is a southern/southern state and not in the BE's northern footprint.

This always makes for lively debate because there is no right answer to where to draw the northern/southern line.

I would argue that its a moot point today. Its more about rural vs. urban and middle-america vs. coasts.

The Big East is an urban school league for the most part. Memphis does fit in with that. However is Memphis "East" enough?

There is a clear line where I come from.

Got to know your affiliation son. CWII could start again at any moment. Best to be ready.

Gonna warn you yanks though - we've been preparing for a while.

Yea well you can tell the North won the war, they built all the bases in the south to pacify the southerners. Occupied like Japan and North Korea. Wannabee's waving American flags like S.Korean's.

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:Pittsburgh - Morgantown 75mi
Storrs - Syracuse 278 mi
Orlando - Tampa 84 Mi
Louisville - Cincinnati 100 mi
East Brunswick - Philadelphia 61 mi

With the addition of UCF and Temple, the Big East would establish a group of travel partners which the PAC 10 uses very effectively. 4 of the 5 pairs would entail bus trips of an hour and a half or less. You also add the #4 and #10 TV markets to the league.

-- I agree completely...the identity of the conference as eastern would be relatively intact and every school would have a rival in house...This is by far the most logical way to go

Jackson

IMO, the Big East would be better off trying to add a second school from Ohio rather than Temple. Ohio is a more fertile recruiting state than PA these days.

The Big East should also consider diversification with its football schools. Having some colleges with traditional campuses can be a real selling point for recruits.

Miami of Ohio? The football attendance would skyrocket in a BCS conference.

Airport KC Wrote:IMO, the Big East would be better off trying to add a second school from Ohio rather than Temple. Ohio is a more fertile recruiting state than PA these days.

The Big East should also consider diversification with its football schools. Having some colleges with traditional campuses can be a real selling point for recruits.

Miami of Ohio? The football attendance would skyrocket in a BCS conference.

You would have to add Cleveland and Columbus together to get a market the size of Philadelphia. the Philadelphia area still produces a huge amount of BB talent. What is the relative value of a member in Philadelphia vs Miami, OH in a TV contract? Ohio also had how many Div I fb playing schools? PA has 3 Pitt, PSU, and Temple, all those are separated geographically in the state. West, Central, and East. Yes, BCS inclusion would be very beneficial to any school, but the question for the BE schools is what does the school bring the BE? There are no schools in OH, that would enhance the BE with their membership.

Shannon Panther Wrote:

Airport KC Wrote:IMO, the Big East would be better off trying to add a second school from Ohio rather than Temple. Ohio is a more fertile recruiting state than PA these days.

The Big East should also consider diversification with its football schools. Having some colleges with traditional campuses can be a real selling point for recruits.

Miami of Ohio? The football attendance would skyrocket in a BCS conference.

You would have to add Cleveland and Columbus together to get a market the size of Philadelphia. the Philadelphia area still produces a huge amount of BB talent. What is the relative value of a member in Philadelphia vs Miami, OH in a TV contract? Ohio also had how many Div I fb playing schools? PA has 3 Pitt, PSU, and Temple, all those are separated geographically in the state. West, Central, and East. Yes, BCS inclusion would be very beneficial to any school, but the question for the BE schools is what does the school bring the BE? There are no schools in OH, that would enhance the BE with their membership.

There are no schools PERIOD that would enhance Big East membership right now.

What is more important is how competitive a school could be than market share. That is why Virginia Tech is now in the ACC, they if I recall play in a very remote town, small market.

Cincinnati had very little reputation in football prior to the Big East. Some good years in CUSA but before that nada. The Big East went into a Big Ten strong hold state and added UC.

The conventional wisdom on this board does not make any sense. A second and potentially intriguing Ohio school is written off, when a second PA school that failed the Big East has support. UMass is considered a candidate in UConn's back yard, but Miami-Oh with its long tradition of good football in UC's back yard is not.

Not to say I think Miami-Oh should be #9, but the should at least be part of the "second tier" of possibilities list ahead of UMass and just behind Temple.

1st Tier
Memphis
UCF
ECU

2nd Tier
Nova (already in Big East)
Temple
Miami-Ohio
UMass

How about Marshall in the equation. They have a bigger budget and are closer distance to Cincinnati, WV, Pitt. They had the movie and that gave the school more national exposure than a lot of schools. They are a bigger profile than ECU, UCF, Temple, or Memphis due to the Randy Moss, Pennington, Leftwich and the movie. Marshall is struggling in CUSA and travel costs are killing them.

OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:How about Marshall in the equation. They have a bigger budget and are closer distance to Cincinnati, WV, Pitt. They had the movie and that gave the school more national exposure than a lot of schools. They are a bigger profile than ECU, UCF, Temple, or Memphis due to the Randy Moss, Pennington, Leftwich and the movie. Marshall is struggling in CUSA and travel costs are killing them.

That does it. We change our name to CUSA2.

But at least the thread is getting more interesting. We're getting more suggestions. It's not as easy as just add this school for this reason or that school for that reason. Everybody is going to have a favorite.
OVer all the BCS is the true cause of this mess. IN a playoff system BCS affilation won't matter as much. Now to make money in Football schools have to join some asinine club called the BCS.

OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:How about Marshall in the equation. They have a bigger budget and are closer distance to Cincinnati, WV, Pitt. They had the movie and that gave the school more national exposure than a lot of schools. They are a bigger profile than ECU, UCF, Temple, or Memphis due to the Randy Moss, Pennington, Leftwich and the movie. Marshall is struggling in CUSA and travel costs are killing them.

On one hand people discount Temple which would give us a second school in large state in a top 4 media market with a decent sized enrollment and it is 6 hours from Pitt. Then people suggest adding Marshall, a second team from one of the smallest states in the union. They are a small private school, in a minor media market with very limited growth potential.

There are no schools that currently enhance the conference, that is why we are standing pat at 8. The next member is going have to bring potential. Marshall has no potential. No market+small school+small state= no chance. Worse yet Marshall does not have success in any revenue sports.

Miami of Ohio does not have a lot of upside potential either. They are too close to Cinci, don't have a media market to call their own and they bring us nothing that Cinci doesn't already.

UCF - Large market in a growing state. Huge enrollment and currently upgrading facilities. Top 10 media market and they expand the BE presence in a state the BE wants to be a player in. Has some success in FB.

ECU - Good support for the FB program. FB starting to show signs of resurgence. Expands the BE footprint into a new and growing state. Could help secure the Meineke Bowl.

Memphis - Great BB success, has FB potential, may bring a bowl with them. Adds a major media market for the TV contract. Expands the BE into a new and growing state.

There are 4 schools that have potential to help the BE. Temple is the least among them but could be added as a FB only the easiest.

Gray Avenger Wrote:

Topcard91 Wrote:Here it is again.

The Liberty Bowl MAY actually go where Memphis goes but there is NO.....I repeat NO "record" of this ever being said.

I have heard the Liberty Bowl director say it on radio talk shows at least twice. In addition to that, there is a history of words and actions by the Liberty Bowl which make it an unwritten understanding. There is no incentive for The Liberty Bowl to go on public record with such statements, but our AD has their word privately and holds that card in his hand. The only reason C-USA was retained in the last changeup was because Memphis is a member and our fans help fill the stadium. As long as Memphis is a member, The Liberty Bowl will be more than happy to upgrade to a 2nd BCS conference.

It is my understanding that the Liberty Bowl is locally owned and run by a committee of prominent Memphians. The Bowl is not like some of the newer Bowls that are owned by ESPN etc. The Liberty seems to have a little more clout due to its history and prestiege than some of the newer Bowls when it comes to negotiations with networks and conferences. As G.A. and others have said, various people from the top down that run the Liberty Bowl have voiced their support for the University of Memphis.

The reason C-USA has a contract with the Liberty is solely because Memphis is a member of that conference. The powers that be in the Liberty Bowl organization know that the city government, bussiness community and citizens of Memphis strongly
support the Bowl. There is NO doubt that the Liberty would sign with the B.E. if and when Memphis becomes a member of the B.E.

The fact that several from ECU have doubts about this support by the Liberty means nothing. All the B.E. has to do is contact the Bowl and ask about its support and whether they would include the B.E. I'm sure this would be done prior to any invitation to Memphis IF that is a major consideration.

Shannon Panther Wrote:There are 4 schools that have potential to help the BE. Temple is the least among them but could be added as a FB only the easiest.

If we split and lose Villanova there's no way we cannot be in Phil. The fourth largest market in the country. For television (BE network), if things go that way, Phil is a no-brainer.
You can argue that Temple did not develop as a FB-only member but the truth, when Miami bolted no one left in the BE had developed. We were a bunch of stagnant teams that "used" to have some significance. Maybe not so for WVU.
UCONN was not even Div. 1 and look how far they have come now that they are fully focused.
We were all in the same "unworthy" boat. That first year we had like a four way tie for the BCS bid, Syr beat BC and Pitt won it only to get clobbered by Utah. Things were looking real bad.
Now we see the light and are trying to develop and doing a good job. Temple is no better and no worse than the rest of where the BE was. They got booted first because they were never a full member. But they have a rich enough history and a market no one can ignore.

http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/MarketTrack/...by_DMA.asp

If we give up Boston and Washington DC (Georgetown)- it's good to add Tampa but we can't give up Phil. This is just in terms of potential. Everybody loves a winner and fans show up when a team is doing good. They fall off when it is doing bad.
The upside for Phil. is too rich to ignore and we need money and TV deals.

1-Only way Temple gets in is if there is a split and Nova doesn't come along.

2-The ACC is nothing in Mass, just like BC is not that big. UMass would be a great invite if a split happened, even if they didn't play in the football conference at first. They have proven to get the attention of fairweather Bostonians. And no, UConn will never cover that market, sorry Huskies.

3-UCF, great add. Only way ACC would look at them is if they changed their name back to Florida Tech to sound more prestigious! Haha Im just joking Knights, I can see the program's potential.

4-Memphis is a little out of the way, some people even call it the Southwest! Great programs nevertheless. I would only add them if going to 12. Conference championship game to bring in more money to cover travel.

5-ECU is a step above Marshall, face it. Step up other sports for serious consideration.

6-Finally, UB and Delaware could be better all-sports options in 10 years. You heard it hear first, folks.

esayem Wrote:1-Only way Temple gets in is if there is a split and Nova doesn't come along.

2-The ACC is nothing in Mass, just like BC is not that big. UMass would be a great invite if a split happened, even if they didn't play in the football conference at first. They have proven to get the attention of fairweather Bostonians. And no, UConn will never cover that market, sorry Huskies.

3-UCF, great add. Only way ACC would look at them is if they changed their name back to Florida Tech to sound more prestigious! Haha Im just joking Knights, I can see the program's potential.

4-Memphis is a little out of the way, some people even call it the Southwest! Great programs nevertheless. I would only add them if going to 12. Conference championship game to bring in more money to cover travel.

5-ECU is a step above Marshall, face it. Step up other sports for serious consideration.

6-Finally, UB and Delaware could be better all-sports options in 10 years. You heard it hear first, folks.

Arrogant, Elitist *******.

That's funny considering y'all have sucked in football for as long as I can remember.

We may never get into this biased BcS bullsh^t- and at this point I am really tired of giving a flying sh^t - but you can cold believe that whenever you pu$$ies are ready for a game - we will be waiting. See you in 09 chump.

Get mad at me all you want bro. What you don't understand is this: if your admins would have put a little bit more effort in the basketball program, we would be in the ACC together.

Shannon Panther Wrote:UCF - Large market in a growing state. Huge enrollment and currently upgrading facilities. Top 10 media market and they expand the BE presence in a state the BE wants to be a player in. Has some success in FB.

Slight correction:

Orlando is a Top 20 Media Market, not Top 10.

esayem Wrote:Get mad at me all you want bro. What you don't understand is this: if your admins would have put a little bit more effort in the basketball program, we would be in the ACC together.

Being in the ACC would make the most sense for ECU. It would also be great for the NC economy. However - that will be a cold day in hell. You know it and I know it - bball or no bball.

Take it easy man - I'm sick of this BS.

Only a complete dumb*** would consider Memphis "Southwest"

We're actually "Mid-South" ..........and proud of it.

Topcard91 Wrote:

oakland steve Wrote:

TIGER-PAUL Wrote:none, unless memphis could gaurantee the liberty bowl every year to the BE vs sec with no shared stipulations.

The Liberty Bowl was on record during the last expansion and since as being a package deal w/ Memphis to the BE.

Here it is again.

The Liberty Bowl MAY actually go where Memphis goes but there is NO.....I repeat NO "record" of this ever being said.

Unless the "record" you are referring to is from the powers that be on the message boards.

You may not like it, but it's a fact. You have no idea how close the Liberty Bowl was to dropping C-USA for a SEC-Big East matchup. The University of Memphis is the ONLY reason that it didn't happen. I know people on the LB board. Just because it wasn't announced on TV doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Bambu Wrote:Only a complete dumb*** would consider Memphis "Southwest"

We're actually "Mid-South" ..........and proud of it.

Spot on, brother southerner!